President Obama's Middle East Trip: A Preview
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013-03-19/president-obamas-middle-east-trip-preview
Barack Obama is about to begin his first visit to Israel as president. It's also his first foreign trip of his second term. On the itinerary is a stop at Israel's national Holocaust memorial, Yad Vashem. He's also expected to visit the Palestinian-controlled West Bank. While there, he'll tour the Church of the Nativity with President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority. But perhaps most important is the face time he’ll have with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The two leaders have had a rocky relationship and mistrust on both sides is said to be high. Diane and her guests talk about U.S.-relations and what's at stake for the region.
Guests
Aaron David Miller
vice president and distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center, and former U.S. Middle East adviser in Republican and Democratic administrations.
Joyce Karam
Washington correspondent, Al-Hayat newspaper.
Nathan Guttman
Washington correspondent for Channel 1 Israeli News and The Jewish Daily Forward.
Ghaith Al-Omari
executive director, the American Task Force on Palestine.
Comments
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Surprise, surprise. Obama is coming to lay down the law on Israeli National Debt (Now 74% of GDP with interest piling up so that every one of their 7 million citizens owes $22K.) From now on Austerity will rule, with massive welfare cuts, medical care cuts, no money for settlements or higher education. All Israelis are now on their own and the Iron Dome Tax starts immediately. Attack helicopters will now be financed at 11.8% over 60 months without a maintenance of drivetrain agreement.
+972, a magazine in Israel named for the area code, proclaims "We are not suckers. The less Obama does on this visit, the better." So apparently these people trapped on a postage stamp, deep in debt, and beset from all sides are not as docile, or suckery, as their American counterparts.
Evidently Israel did not get the memo from the GOP and it's media arm, FOX News. Israel is going to award President Obama with the Presidential Medal of Distinction for his “unique and significant contribution to strengthening the state of Israel and the security of its citizens,”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/19/israels-shimon-peres-awa...
This will occur on Obama's visit to Israel, a feat Ronald Reagan never managed to accomplish in 8 years. Bush Senior never made it over either. How does this play into the neo-conservative theory that Obama has less concern for Israel than those two presidents?
Maybe Mr. Obama can do for the Israelis what he has done for us. Have everyone at each others throats with divisive pettiness over social issues while he destroys the system from within.
"The poll of 500 Israelis representing a sample of the adult population found that 36 percent considered the Obama administration more pro-Palestinian than pro-Israel, 26% said it was more pro-Israel than pro- Palestinian, and 26% called it neutral. The percentage of people who believed that Obama’s government leaned toward Israel was the highest in Smith polls in nearly four years"
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Post-poll-Obama-still-lacks-...
"Israel is going to award President Obama with the Presidential Medal of Distinction for his “unique and significant contribution to strengthening the state of Israel and the security of its citizens,”
I'm guessing Benjamin Netanyahu didn't get vote.
Don't forget, Freedom rocks, he also got a Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing as well.
Today's panel has the usual Diane Rehm Show balance.
This rhetoric over whether Iran is building a nuclear weapon is nothing but a bogus excuse for the Zionist to exercise control over the middle east.
Turn off your government sponsored Television and search the internet if you want to see what is really going on...
urbanrage wrote:
"This rhetoric over whether Iran is building a nuclear weapon is nothing but a bogus excuse for the Zionist to exercise control over the middle east.
Turn off your government sponsored Television and search the internet if you want to see what is really going on..."
Sorry, what?
I think if you asked the general public what there stance was on the Israeli issues are you would find them uneducated and uninterested in the whole debacle. We supported Israel since its inception I think its time they fix there own problems. We have been told Iran has had nuclear ambitions since the late 70's it has become a 40 year lie.
How can the blame be placed on President Obama for the receding plausibility of a two-state solution? Why is there no discussion here of the continuously expanding settlements that are making a two-state solution impossible? Why do Israelis allow the most militant orthodox minority in Israel jeopardize the long term security of Israel?
The two-state solution may not be dead, but it is certainly in critical, barely clinging to life. There's no real reason why it shouldn't recover its health, but currently it's suffering from two major issues, and whenever one of them seems to be healing, the other one triggers a relapse. To wit:
The Israeli leadership is currently against the two-state solution, and the other side always has been.
Paul Ropp wrote:
"How can the blame be placed on President Obama for the receding plausibility of a two-state solution? Why is there no discussion here of the continuously expanding settlements that are making a two-state solution impossible? Why do Israelis allow the most militant orthodox minority in Israel jeopardize the long term security of Israel?"
The blame can't be placed on the American President. There is discussion here of the settlements (at exactly 10:43 ET they began talking about it), though the settlements are not a cause, but a symptom of the seeming impossibility of the two-state solution. And it's looking like even the most religious Jews in Israel won't be exempted from the draft much longer.
I have always supported Israel.This relationship goes way back to the days of civil rights marches. Arm and arm people stood up against the bullies and bigots,who would deny fundamental rights and liberties. But today,Israel has become the bully. Stealing land from others is WRONG.
freedom or welfare wrote: "Maybe Mr. Obama can do for the Israelis what he has done for us. Have everyone at each others throats with divisive pettiness over social issues while he destroys the system from within."
He isn't destroying the system from within, he's supporting the system. He's destroying popular resistance to corporate ownership of the society, culture, and it's institutions, corporate personhood, and reduction of real personhood to unithood. In this regard, he's not much different than any US president since the time of Jackson; the process has accelerated since the mid-70s as the few institutional speedbumps have been removed. Undeniably, for whatever reason, Obama has been particularly effective, much as Reagan was. Contrary to consensus belief, I don't really think he has much more on the ball than Reagan, he just has an equally powerful machine behind him.
Yes, we can't blame the US president now can we? We can't ever blame any US president for what's gone wrong anywhere. The US president has assured the Israeli government with a nod and a wink, or reassuring them by standing beside them with a baseball bat, every time they rampage into Palestinian territory, torture, disenfranchise, and steal land.... the US supplies the muscle to the Israelis while insisting the Palestinians agree to terms no people anywhere would ever agree to. But let's not blame the US president, that would just be worng.
Ha, good one. A very nice use of irony to support urbanrage's point, well done.
It's hard for some people to accept the truth, isn't it? the apologist for US power was sputtering and blustering, acting all offended over the application of the term apartheid to the treatment of the Palestinians. Didn't Jimmy Carter call it apartheid? Hasn't the sainted Desmond Tutu called it apartheid? My wife, who grew up in apartheid South Africa, says it's apartheid. I'm I going to listen to these smart, compassionate people, or some huffing puffing little tool, who audaciously claims to speak for South Africans. Two of my experts are South Africans, but I'm supposed to take his word for it? The poor little fool.
Blueneck BillyBob wrote: "today,Israel has become the bully. Stealing land from others is WRONG."
BBB, you know we're all tired of you. (I'm particularly tired this morning, so you'll forgive for being more testy than usual.) Today, Israel is slowly but surely giving up land to "others." I defy you to try to explain what you mean by "stealing land from others."
But, of course, the issue is not black-and-white. Even on the very first day of the State of Israel, when the other side rejected the two-state solution by invading newborn Israel, they were not just being evil. Think about it this way:
Your family has been living in a lovely house for generations. Then, tragically, you face a home invasion and are forced to abandon your family home for the indefinite future. Years later, you finally return - and there's another family living in your house. You tell them to get out. They object. They've been living there legitimately for years. Why should they let you live in what they regard as their house? There is no fair solution except to share the house. But neither one of you is eager to share, each feeling that you alone have the right to the house.
(continued)
(continued)
I could extend the analogy thus: The two of you sign an agreement to share the property. But on day one, the other occupant rounds up their friends from the neighborhood and gets them to attack you, heavily armed, attempting to kill you, or failing that drive you out of the house for all time. But somehow, you and your family fight them off and end up taking control of the whole house. This situation continues for years. You're the generous sort, so you still let them live in one wing of the house. From there they occasionally vandalize the part that is your home, threatening the lives of you and your family. They feel they are justified in doing this, because living in your house they have to follow your rules, and they regard it as oppression. So you decide to withdraw your authority from their wing. They immediately begin bringing in heavy weapons, and start launching RPGs into your living space. They will not rest until you are gone. And they've got the neighbors on their side. When you decide to set up a bed near the border between their wing and yours, it is regarded as an act of aggression, unlike their legitimate campaign to destroy you. Then, you find out that some jerk on the Internet has posted something calling you "the bully. Stealing land from others is WRONG." You're frustrated, but what can you do? All you've ever wanted is to live in peace, and you'll share the house if that's what it takes, but the other side won't cooperate. They want to kill you. They say so consistently. And even when they only ask for you to withdraw from their territory, what they mean is the whole house.
"Stop occupying 'Palestinian territories'!" usually means the entire State of Israel.
Give us all a break, BBB. Constructing that analogy wore me out.
Joyce Karam is some kind of a saint, stoically silent as the slimy little apologist for US power lectures her on how democracy is manifesting itself in the Middle East "for the first time in modern history." This coming from a miserable functionary of a regime that overthrew democracy in Iran in 1954, who helped to install Saddam, and then then destroyed an entire country when they decided to get rid of him (and along the way waged war to return the monarchy to power in Kuwait); who has supported the royal family in Saudi Arabia, installing and removing governments in Egypt, and giving a thug a billion dollars a year in the name of stability... typical ugly american stuff. To lay waste to everything, and brag about your role in bringing about democracy and stability to people who have witnessed first hand that what you delivered was exactly the opposite.
mattlove1 wrote: "He isn't destroying the system from within, he's supporting the system."
Can you give some examples of things that have improved under Obama's leadership, real world statistics of measurable improvement?. What government program has been put on more sustainable footing, real numbers not theoretical conclusions based on false assumptions?
About all I can think of is the stock market, but that has only caught up to where it was at the start of his presidency. Considering the stock market is riding a dollar bubble caused by Federal Reserve money printing, it's an illusion that cannot last.
Ms. Rehm keeps using the term "Palestine." There is no such country anywhere. The correct term is Palestinian Authority.
None of the participants on the panel mentioned that the "settlements" are in fact legal. Repetition of the term "illegal settlements" does not make them so. J&S (West Bank) were not ruled by any recognized sovereign since Biblical times. Jordan's occupation of J&S from 1948 till the peace treaty with Israel was never recognized by any country except Pakistan. In any case, Jordan relinquished any claim to J&S. Therefore, J&S are at best territories designated for Israeli settlements in San Remo 1922, League of Nations and the UN (article 80 of the UN Charter), or at worst they are disputed territories.
Why only anti-Israel callers are allowed through? Has the DR program ever allowed a panelist opposing the use of the cliche "illegal settlements" and "occupied territories?"
For explanation of the legality of Israel's presence in J&S listen to the following International Law professor's lecture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ub2x5UvjUs4
FOW, you've got a serious problem. First your cavalier assertions that dark skin mandates laziness and promiscuousness, and now your statement that faith in "HaShem" signals socialism - or, excuse me, "Jews like socialism more than Israel or freedom." I know several Jews. All of them are more or less pro-Israel. Of those that I know the political affiliation of, most are Democrats. As far as I know, not a single one of them is in favor of socialism (unmitigated socialism, that is. We all know that the most effective economic model blends socialism and capitalism. That's the way we do it in America, and in Israel too. Social democracy works). And every one of them loves freedom.
Oh, by the way, I also know a bunch of Democrats, including close family members, and all of them are pro-Israel. Also pro-Palestinian and pro-peace (to borrow a famous slogan).
Why do we let people like FOW into our society?
10 years ago,George W.Bush lied us into the Iraq War. Today a guest continued the lie by saying other countries intel said Saddam had WMD`s. That is NOT the message Bush gave. "DO YOU WANT THE PROOF TO BE A MUSHROOM CLOUD"..??....Many people believed Saddam kept some of the poison gas weapons around.The weapons Ronald Reagan provided,and may have been used in the 1st Gulf War.
All of our allies, including the French told us there were no NUKES.. The Republicans attacked the French.Even wanting to rename French Fries,and French Toast.. Ring a bell..??
Bush lied.Cheney got the oil.The American people got the debt,deaths,and shame...
@ The Last Moderate: Your analogy is spot on. The lines were blurred (intentionally) by the Sykes-Pikot line which was decided by the British & French in 1916. The P.L.O. is, and always will be in complete denial of the Green line which was established, (but never accepted by the Arab nation) in 1967. Palestinians were granted citizenship but the sub-clause is that if they leave or do not occupy for seven years, right of occupancy and citizenship is revoked.
"ecgberht2 wrote:
"Israel is going to award President Obama with the Presidential Medal of Distinction for his “unique and significant contribution to strengthening the state of Israel and the security of its citizens,”
I'm guessing Benjamin Netanyahu didn't get vote.
Don't forget, Freedom rocks, he also got a Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing as well.
March 19, 2013 - 10:03 am"
Maybe they are giving the Nobels out now for NOT doing anything, NOT starting Wars that spread Misery and destruction to Millions, NOT willfully destroying the US and World Economies, driving Billions into poverty while fattening the Fattest of the Fat.
However, I can understand the Jew and CryptoJew resentment at Obama getting the Medal instead of Twiggy Bush who, in his 8 years, made the ultimate destruction of Palestine inevitable and irreversible.
And when the Jews used up all their Phosphorus and Cluster Munitions during their Barbaric attacks on the helpless of Gaza and Lebanon, The Runt Bush replenished the Jew supplies.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
mchaun, thank you for that unbiased and fact-filled post!
On the 10th anniversary of the latest was in Iraq, Rehm has "exposed herself" as a non-supporter of American service men and women by not challenging a guest's disrespectful views of service members and their sacrifice (because he was voicing an opinion with which she agrees). It wasn't even the day's topic!
Aaron David Miller called the Iraq war a "discretionary" war and a "tremendous waste of American lives, credibility and treasure."
Rhem and Miller are good examples of those who purposely damage American credibility and promote divisiveness along political and ideological lines.
On my last combat tour (2005) we lost 24 men in my brigade alone. This guest's comments are disrespectful to their memories, families, and comrades at arms as well as to the same for the other approx. 122,000 lost. He should be ashamed of himself. Rhem should be ashamed for drawing a check for today's work and NPR should be ashamed for writing that check.
Our presence in Iraq DID have a positive impact.
I saw women learning to drive, able to have jobs outside the home and little girls who were suddenly allowed to learn to read. I saw projects that were working with local leaders to rebuild an infrastructure that had not been improved or even maintained in 40+ years.
Were those the original goals? No. Was it a good idea to remove a brutal dictator and the sons who arguably would have ruled with even a more oppressive regime? I would argue: Yes.
No matter what Rehm and Miller spout and support: Not one single service member wasted their time, efforts or life in that conflict.
To all of our service members and their families I say: Don't EVER let these liberal, "intellectual elitists," tell you and yours that your and their sacrifices were a "waste."
I'm currently serving as a Lt. Col. in the reserve forces and my opinions are my own. Picking a fight with the media can be a career limiting move but I will let NPR verify who I am off the air and off the web.
You do have to hand it to Bebe Netanyahu. He squawks about "red lines" and rattles his miniature sabre (or is it the jawbone of some equine animal?) and the US is supposed to run over to Israel and make nice-nice with him. Basically he threatens to do a pre-emptive kick start of WW III and America and NATO are supposed to follow up/ clean up the huge mess that would bring......and the US would, once again, suffer huge losses in military and fiscal sacrifice. Guess who wins? It would be another ten years (minimum) of chaos and debacle.....with Iran, Hezbollah, and Islamic extremists still very much able to continue incessant troubles.
Bebe actually encourages "colonists" to bulldoze Palestinian villages with Israeli government financial backing. At best the Palestinians are cordoned off away from jobs and access to relatives and commerce. It may not quite rise to the level of South African apartheid.....but that is a hotly debated set of opinions. It surely is thumbing the entire Islamic culture of the region in the eye.
This is truly a a situation which is a lose-lose for US interests. NObody (except maybe Donnie Rumsfeld) liked Saddam but Hussein did keep Iran at bay for a long time. It is only a matter of time before another strongman rises in the region and add to the disruption. The US should never have sent the CIA into Iran to meddle and install the Shah.......the Iranians actually amazingly still like Americans at the popular level in spite of the Ayatollahs and Achmedinijah. IF the US can grind down their leadership and keep jamming their nuclear development, eventually things will improvd......UNLESS America once again gets bullied and cajoled into a miserable stupid interference. Old men start wars.....young men die in them.
Really sad. A panel of his fellow lefties describe President Obama as ineffective, controlling and unable to project America's power effectively. Where has President Obama's brilliant foreign policy shown any signs of being effective?
Milton Friedman addressed the interesting question of why Jews tend to be hostile to capitalism and sympathetic to socialism despite the fact that, historically, Jews have been most successful and most tolerated in those societies where free markets and civil society were relatively unfettered, and suffered most from anti-semitism in highly socialized and statist economies (worst of all under Soviet socialism and, of course, Hitler's National Socialism).
SOCIALISM: In the United States.
Theory of civil polity which advocates public collective ownership, production, and distribution. Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception.
In the United States.
The Jewish exodus from Russia drafted to the United States large numbers of Socialists, mostly college and university students, who must be reckoned among the pioneers of the Socialist parties in America. Their main field of activity was the ghetto. But the masses of Jewish workmen and tradesmen who were educated by this propaganda scattered throughout the country in pursuit of employment or business opportunities and became "the pedlers of socialism" among their shopmates and neighbors. The city of Haverhill, Mass., which elected the first Socialist mayor in the United States, is a notable example of the proselytizing work of Russo-Jewish Socialists. The Russian Jews themselves have contributed their quota to the rank and file, as well as to the leaders, of the American Socialist parties. One of the prominent national leaders is Morris Hillquit, a young Russo-Jewish attorney in New York, author of "The History of Socialism in the United States" (New York, 1903).
http://az307127.vo.msecnd.net/webslices/ie8?culture=en-us&r=asdf9488
The Last Moderate wrote: "FOW, you've got a serious problem. First your cavalier assertions that dark skin mandates laziness and promiscuousness"
Can you say slander?