Friday News Roundup - Domestic
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013-02-22/friday-news-roundup-domestic
Sparring over spending and taxes intensifies one week before sequestration. Details of immigration proposals emerge. And Florida’s governor reverses course on Medicaid. Guest host Steve Roberts and a panel of journalists discuss the week’s top national stories.
Guests
Chris Cillizza
author of The Fix, a Washington Post politics blog, managing editor of PostPolitics.com and author of the book, "The Gospel According to The Fix."
Shawna Thomas
White House producer for NBC News.
John Dickerson
chief political correspondent for Slate.com and CBS political analyst and contributor. Author of "On Her Trail: My Mother, Nancy Dickerson, TV News' First Woman Star."
Friday News Roundup Video
Panelist Chris Cillizza, author of The Fix politics blog, discussed Vice President Joe Biden's remark that if Americans want to protect themselves against home intruders, they should "get a double-barrel shotgun." Biden spoke as part of a Facebook town hall Tuesday saying that Americans don't need semi-automatic weapons because shotguns have the same impact. Cillizza said Biden supporters and detractors responded to the remark differently. "Like almost everything in politics these days, it's dependent on the partisan lens through which you see these things," Cillizza said.
Comments
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Some reading for thoughtful people:
cc wrote:
"Oh my G-d, you are right."
Happy to help, cc.
"Paul Baran was the sole reason that the Internet exists and nothing else matters."
I get the consternation you are feeling at having been out-debated, which I'm sure is what leads you to start throwing out strawmen and sarcasm left and right. It's sad, really, but I get it.
Yes, I am very worried about being out debated by you. And now you have convinced me that the federal government agencies including non-military parts deserve no credit for all the billions of dollars spent on the design, building, and funding the Internet and its roll out to the world. And CERN and NSCA, government funded institutions, created the web, yet somehow deserve no credit for the World Wide Web. Now how can we convince the rest of the world that might come to a different conclusion based on the overwhelming evidence against us?
Since it is clear that Paul Baran created the Internet single handed, well except for his own protestations, I am convinced. But perhaps we could chart back to the first electronic messages. I used to walk by this plaque in the US Capitol which talks about Samuel Morse. Perhaps we could pick him instead, cause there would be no Internet without him and Morse Code is sort of like packets. Darn, he used the US Capitol, which might seem like sponsoring.
Perhaps we can go back to Franklin and his electrical experiments. Wait, he was part of the government. Still, we walk hand in hand, oblivious to others' understanding of the Internet, knowing what we know.
yours,
beaten by the master debater
No, I bow to you cc. You are the master of the straw man. None other.
I suggest you speak to just one of your friends from Darma, the myriad of government agencies you are familiar with and the dozens of scientists you know. Unlike you, they will have heard of Paul Baran and will recognize his contribution, which you, for some bizarre reason refuse to do.
Dear ECGBERHT,
Surely, you must be kidding. I read about Paul Baran. Yes, it is clear that packet switched networking is really great. TCP/IP is dependent on Paul Baran's work. The whole Internet infrastructure on a technical level depends on his work. And there were other people who helped build various aspects of the Internet and the standards that allows it to function.
But, just in case you were wondering, this does not mean that the federal government did not create the Internet. Both can be true. Victory has a thousand fathers....
I am clueless how someone could not be aware of NSFNET and that NSF is an independent part of the federal government. And by releasing NSFNET to the public, we have created this Internet this web page is part of. And the web was created by governments and given gratis to the world. And so was GPS. And numerous other advances that the private sector has capitalized on.
You can wall yourself off to learning new things, but I have faith that may be something will get through. If not knowledge, perhaps humor will work. I find that I laugh out loud reading your posts.
yours,
beaten into submission by a fish (very surreal)
"I am clueless how someone could not be aware of NSFNET "
And you conclude that from what? Chapter and verse, cc, not your ... what was it, oh, yes "it seems that"! Find MY WORDS (emphasis, not anger) put quotes around them, and post them here.
Many wonderful things have come out of DOD, a proper Constitutional role of the FG. I never denied that. In fact, I pointed out that it makes your whole position moot. So what is the point? That you finally accept that it was Baran's work that is, was, and will always be the foundation of the Internet? "The whole Internet infrastructure on a technical level depends on his work. " Is this a breakthrough? Finally?
You can wall yourself off to learning new things, but I have faith that may be something will get through. If not knowledge, perhaps humor will work. I find that I laugh out loud reading your posts.
Actually, I had always accepted that Paul Baran was crucial to the technical framework of the Internet in all of my responses. Just pointed out that it was the government, both DOD and NSF and other bodies like Commerce/NIST and many others that participated in the creation and release of the Internet to the world. Are you aware that other bodies of government that you may feel strongly are not constitutional have also made the Internet possible?
You may believe that the world should agree that the federal government should not include various agencies. But that does not mean that their contributions do not exist. Your disapproval does not make them unconstitutional, as the U.S. Supreme Court is the only body that can rule a law unconstitutional.
Stipulated, you believe that the Supreme Court makes rulings that should have been ruled otherwise. Stipulated that some of the cases you mentioned.
I read constantly, learn new things, change my views based on reasonable and verifiable points. I was dipping again to this board to see the level of discourse. I found your confidence breathtaking and ability to shape reality to your opinion amazing. May be that works for you. You are always right in your mind. Perhaps perfection permeates your presence, but I of mortal and fallible nature miss that confidence.
yours,
beaten into submission by infallibility
"Actually, I had always accepted that Paul Baran was crucial to the technical framework of the Internet in all of my responses."
Really? Well, it seems less than "curcial" here ...
"Until NSFNet was released to the world, it was not the Internet, as packet switching protocols are not the Internet. Baran's contribution may have been necessary, but like Eisenhower's vision for the highway system (as a "military necessity"), the inventor of a piece of the internal combustion engine does not deserve the credit given to Ike."
and
"Yes, I remember your Baran, creator of the Internet, argument."
"I used to walk by this plaque in the US Capitol which talks about Samuel Morse. Perhaps we could pick him instead, cause there would be no Internet without him and Morse Code is sort of like packets. .... Perhaps we can go back to Franklin and his electrical experiments".
Perhaps I'm reading more sarcasm in those statements than you intended?
"I read constantly, learn new things, change my views based on reasonable and verifiable points."
I'll give you credit for that. It sounds like you have changed your mind about the import of Baran's contribution. I will also stipulate that my "Want a history lesson on the internet? Came out of the head of Paul Baran ..." was shorthand for that contribution, though less than well stated.
I will give you the last word.
Thanks. Left my last word to you elsewhere. Never, ever questioned that Paul Baran was important. But the Internet, depending on Baran's work, is more than Baran's work. However, through seriousness, verifiable references, then humor, then exasperation, you seemed to deny that parts of the government besides the DOD deserved credit for the Internet being brought to the public. Honestly, I don't care if you acknowledge it it or not. Just not sure if you understand that the NSF, NIST and numerous other agencies contributed to the creation of the public Internet in the form that it was unleashed to the world. And work was done by countless folks to create Telnet, Gopher, email, the web/HTML, XML, and the list goes on are what makes the Internet the Internet that we all use. They all deserve credit whether from non-profits, academia, private companies, unaffiliated individuals, all of the departments of government, and from other countries. Feel free to deny all besides Baran credit if you want.
Thanks for the last word. A bit hollow and sad conversation. Hope you enjoyed it more than me.
Daniel