Guns And Suicide
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013-02-19/guns-and-suicide
In 2010, more than 30,000 Americans died from gunshot wounds, and about two-thirds were self-inflicted. More people used a firearm to take their own lives than every other method combined. For most, if not all victims, suicide reflects a treatment failure -- someone in distress who didn’t get the right kind of help when they most needed it. People determined to take their own lives can find a way, but research shows that having easy access to a gun boosts the likelihood that an attempt will be successful. Diane and guests discuss who is at risk for suicide, and what can be done to reduce that risk.
Guests
Dr. Matthew Miller
associate director at Harvard Injury Control Research Center and associate professor of health policy and injury prevention at Harvard School of Public Health.
Dr. Jana Martin
clinical psychologist and leader of public education efforts with the American Psychological Association.
Dr. Alan Newman
associate professor of psychiatry at Georgetown University Medical Center.
Lucinda Bassett
author of "Truth Be Told: A Memoir of Success, Suicide and Survival" to be published March 2013.
Comments
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My older sister suffered from migraines and depression, at the age of 47 she shot herself. My mother was devastated by this, five years later she was in deep depression because of this and other things and shot herself. As horrible as all this was, I see no reason to link these tragedies with a reason to limit any law abiding citizens right as outlined by the Constitution to own firearms. To think our families tragedy would be used as a prop to limit another families ability to protect themselves is unacceptable. The political movements that use these tragedies to push an unconstitutional agenda are beneath contempt.
Dear one time:
While I agree that the alleged connection between easy availability of guns and suicide is not in itself an argument for gun control applied to everyone, neither can I accept your view that this discussion is merely about "political movements". That's like saying laws against drunk driving, or which prohibit bar tenders from serving drunks, are part of some anti-alcohol "political movement".
If there is a connection between easy availability of guns and suicide, at the least it argues for better suicide prevention, including finding ways to screen out the emotionally or mentally troubled before handing them a gun.
But let's look at this the other way. The NRA and its fellow travelers insist on an absolutist, all or nothing, view of the Second Amendment, under which even reasonable gun regulations are invalid. Too bad the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, disagree.
Like the flag, those who wrap themselves in the Constitution, and exaggerate "gun rights", in order to make America safe for gun manufacturers and sellers, even at the cost of our lives, and those of our children and families "are beneath contempt."
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: "But let's look at this the other way. The NRA and its fellow travelers insist on an absolutist, all or nothing, view of the Second Amendment, under which even reasonable gun regulations are invalid. Too bad the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, disagree."
What we have now is far from absolutist and all or nothing. When a Dealer gets an FFL (federal firearms license) they are issued a book "State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms" It is about an 1 1/2" inch thick and gets thicker every year, I think they only put these out in CD now because of the ever increasing bulk of it. These are state laws on top of federal laws, to say gun rights have not already been infringed upon is a joke. Anti gun rights activists will never stop until guns are confiscated, gun rights proponents need to fight them on every issue as if the second amendment itself hangs in the balance every time, because it does.
The Constitution is clear on this despite some efforts to twist it's meaning. As for the Supreme Court, they have been dismantling the Constitution for well over a hundred years. Their rulings on many issues have been nothing short of treason.
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:" Like the flag, those who wrap themselves in the Constitution, and exaggerate "gun rights", in order to make America safe for gun manufacturers and sellers, even at the cost of our lives, and those of our children and families "are beneath contempt.""
Give me an example of who is "exaggerating" gun rights and how?
We fully understand your motives here, a new topic does not eliminate your past of wild Constitutional distortions.
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: "The NRA and its fellow travelers insist on an absolutist, all or nothing, view of the Second Amendment, under which even reasonable gun regulations are invalid"
Sorry E.S. but you don't get a pass on that one... You and I both know that "reasonable" gun regulation is a wide, wide river to cross... and the fault is not all the NRA's. I'm not a big NRA fan but if (and hopefully) when, either side presents a "reasonable" solution I'm sure that most Americans (gun owners and manufacturers alike) will accept it. Until then, you throwing out the broad premise that the NRA and gun owners care more about profits than they do about human life is "beneath comtempt". Unfortunately, almost without exception, suicide touches all of our lives in one way or another. I look at this discussion (and your comments) as another way of politicizing yet another symptom of a society rife with problems. But wait... wasn't it Rahm Emanuel who said "never let a serious crisis go to waste?"
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:"America safe for gun manufacturers and sellers, even at the cost of our lives, and those of our children and families "are beneath contempt."
The left will use anything as a prop to push it's big government agenda. Because special laws were needed to protect the lawful manufacture of firearms, it becomes "contemptible" to not allow the second amendment to be undermined by illegal product liability law suits, "it's for the children!"
If a depressed or deranged person is intent on committing suicide, but did not have access to a gun, do you not think he/she would find another way? Pain pills combined with alcohol, car running in a closed garage, slit wrist.....
While I am a supporter of some gun control restrictions (ban certain assault weapons, expanded background checks, mental health issues factored in), I don't believe gun control is going to reduce suicide. I would guess most of those suicide deaths involving guns, were done with firearms that aren't going to be banned (nor should they).
I do support discussing ways to recognize those who are at risk for suicide though and expanding mental health assistance, talking about depression, etc.
The one time comment in which the writer loves gun rights more than her family members looks canned to me and was probably put up by a right wing operator, maybe cloned from a Donor's Trust or ALEC CD.
I agree with E.S. 's comment.
Always these fascists swarm like flies on a cowpile.
Which ruins this forum. They robo-call and do not reason.
The place to comment is in public where everyone is real and exposed (and unarmed). Thanks WFAE in Charlotte for carefully organizing your public forum on the 300 million plus guns owned by a minority of Americans.
Suicide is way up because disappointment and desperation are way up in a USA where life is ever more a hopeless and unfair struggle, with predators all around. Guns are appliances that conveniently do the job of ending the nightmare. Recipe for recovery: many fewer guns and lots more empathy and caring. People using a gun as a crutch are always farther from help than the unarmed. The best social engineering this nation could have would encourage (fund) human rights and discourage (tax and penalize) hatemongers. To Hell with Hatetriots! They hold guns to our heads all day in an effort to please Oligarchs. (plutocratic counterinsurgency)
My Wife was home alone with our two young children and thought there was an intruder in our house. The previous night we had to call the police for a suspicious vehicle sitting in front of our house with two male occupants, so this made it all that more scary for her. She grabbed our hand gun and sat in our hallway gaurding the entrance to the childrens rooms with her only weapon.
If she had not had a weapon, what were her choices to get help? When we called the police about the suspicious vehicle, it took 10 mintues for a car to arrive. If we had had an intruder, what could they have done to my family in 10 minutes? When I got home and secured the house there was no intruder, but that does not change the fact that my family was at risk but had a weapon as a deterent and possible life saver for my wife and children.
Tragedy is tragedy, regardless of the way death occurs. WE need to calm down and deal withthe real issues of death in this nation such as poverty and living conditions for those without.
Canned Rice! (Was the wife considering suicide?)
We can tell a radical when they write that the Supreme Court is treasonous. We can tell that someone has very little knowledge of how our system works when they write such nonsense. YEs, the NRA opposes anything reasonable, even background checks that they USED to support. They are a radical group that represents a small minority of gun owners, but a majority of gun makers.
As a long time gun owner I have no problem strengthening background checks (as the NRA once did), better mental health record keeping, keeping felons from accessing guns at gun shows etc. Will this prevent gun deaths? Nope, but it may lesson them. If more guns= safer citizens we would not be rated in the top five nations in gun related deaths.
William, what laws/rules under consideration would prevent you or your wife from doing what she did?
Pancake Rankin wrote: "The one time comment in which the writer loves gun rights more than her family members looks canned to me and was probably put up by a right wing operator, maybe cloned from a Donor's Trust or ALEC CD."
Must be convenient for you to slap hateful labels on your apparently very long list of people and groups you despise. What does it feel like to be filled with rage on a daily basis? This can't end well for you.
Japan's suicide rate is 22 and the US is 12/100,000K.
Japan's always touted as not having guns.
So how to explain this show, which sounds like a thinly-veiled attempt to prohibit guns?
I am tired of other people trying to save folks from themselves.
As a retired person, I reserve the right to end my life at any time of my choosing, with a firearm. It is simply more dependable than other methods.
I have seen others slowly die, often painfully without any other reasonable "exit plan".
I would also like to see suicide from firearms removed from the "gun violence " statistics.
Why are your guests saying suicide by gun is always a bad thing or always needs to be prevented. People use guns because in America, there is no other sure alternative available to people who are ready to die. Doctors are not allowed to help people commit suicide. Many older people will kill themselves for financial reasons, in addition to health reasons as so many older people now outlive their assets while having a miserable quality of life. Doctors should be able to help people end their lives in a humane way.
Hi Diane,
My step father committed suicide when I was in 9th grade. He was depressed and abusive, but never sought treatment. He shot himself in the chest with a 9 mm handgun. To this day I hate guns. Not in their own right, but because they allow a split second decision to have devastating effects on a family. I miss him very much, and wish there had been some mechanism to help him.
I have used Lucinda's program for anxiety and depression with success, and I want to thank her personally and express my sorrow at her loss.
Many thanks.
Ike in Tampa
I am tired of other people trying to save folks from themselves.
As a retired person, I reserve the right to end my life at any time of my choosing, with a firearm. It is simply more dependable than other methods.
I have seen others slowly die, often painfully without any other reasonable "exit plan".
I would also like to see suicide from firearms removed from the "gun violence " statistics.
Are people without health insurance more likely to commit suicide because they may not have access to proper help?
Bravo! to the previous comment about retired people outliving their resources and the medical community not being able to help someone end their life. I also dislike church / religious groups trying to force their beliefs on non-members. Stay out of it. If God doesn't like it--let him deal with it.
Wouldn't the link between gun ownership and suicide may be attributed one's perception of control ? Maybe type A personalities?
Buying a gun gives the owner an actual or perceived control over their own safety.
My understanding that suicide is typically committed by one who feels out of control and wishes to end it on their terms.
Just my layperson opinion.
I truly do not understand this connection of guns and suicide. The person that is suicidal will use any method available to attempt suicide. If a gun is NOT available we think that they will NOT be suicidal?
We cannot eliminate methods of suicide nor do I want our gov't to be that involved in any part of my life. Please keep in mind that I am a liberal in general, but these kinds of conversations are concentrating entirely on the wrong issue.
Let's look at causes of depression, mental illness and any other issues casuing people to become suicidal. Otherwise, rope, ties, knives, guns, cars and any other means of sucide will fall out gov't control of ownership. Is this what we want?
Pleae do not misconstrue my comments as uncaring. I have experienced suicide in my life, but I do not blame the method, itis a personal choice of a menatlly ill person that reqired more help than was received.
My heart breaks for Ms. Bassett. Her story is tragic when one considers that she tried everything, including alerting a mental health professional, of her fears that her husband would commit suicide just one day before he was successful.
Unfortunately, this was also my experience. My loved one's suicide attempt came during treatment from a team of mental health professionals. Not only did no one anticipate the suicide attempt, they seemed genuinely surprised by it despite my repeated calls of alarm. In this, I feel very much on my own to keep my loved one from harm.
I am thankful that there was not a gun in the home, and that my loved one survived the suicide attempt. I'm not sure that would have been the case if a gun had been available.
I'd like Last Mod to know that I couldn't go about 48 hours a week assisting the poor and giving away what I have If I were filled with rage. Guns are synonymous with the expression of rage according to US media (and US warfare, and US policing), and my two shotguns are locked up at the skeet range. The most rage I ever express is @DRShow because this forum is hijacked, and the show is not what it used to be (serves public less and less, privileged interests more and more). Notice how many police and military personnel (more all the time) are using their loved one (gun) to end their nightmares. Notice how the investors in gun manufacture and sales (more and more) tend to fund our politics through secretive lobbying, bribery and propaganda organizations. The few with the most money want the public space to be a perpetual catfight, and those who admire them hasten to make it so.
Peter Lake may be right. The demands for citizen unquestioning obedience from our corporate masters now almost match those in "deferential" Japan. Guns don't protect freedom; they repress it. I am very proud of Japanese who oppose the nuclear power industry. To remain quiet would be suicidal.
Apparently, "not that guy'/last mod" found the "pair of shoes" I provided fit him very well, and he slipped them on with his response. On the Internet you can find the pedophiles/ fascists/racists/sexists/ classists just by typing the keyword. They can't hold back the urge to bark.
Thank you for the answer doctor. Gun owners do not have higher rates of suicide or depression.
I do not like tragic situations like suicide being a facade for gun control. I do not understand how this conversation is even relevant to gun control. I do agree that poeple diagnosed with a mental illness should be allowed to get a gun license, we are talking about HOMES with guns. The gun may be owned by anyone in that house and therefore we are talking about limiting a persons right to ownership based on a tragic decision of a mantally ill person to possibly commit suicide. It simply is not adding up to me. I am not uncaring at all about this, but I just do not see any reasonable relationship in the subject matter.
you and one of your loved ones may end up being shot one night protecting your home from an intruder. I hope when your children are older, you alert them and their friends to never sneak in or out of the house. They may lose their lives in the process.
Now I'm really wondering if the Second Amendment protects our right to buy and smoke dynamite.
Apparently, "not that guy'/last mod"
Try again.
It must be the responsibility of every gun owner to store their guns safely. I am a gun owner, and I raised my family with guns in the house. There was never, ever a time when those guns were not stored safely with trigger locks. A trigger lock renders a gun entirely useless. Ammunition was stored in a separate location.
While I was fortunate enough in my life never to have to worry about a troubled family member, our kids had friends over all the time during adolescent/teenage years. You just never know what can happen when a gun is in the house.
The accidental use of a gun, whether a mistake or by a suicide, is so preventable and the responsibility of gun owners.
For those who believe that a gun in the house will help with self-defense, that issue needs to be addressed head-on as well. There are statistics which show that those guns too often wind up hurting/killing someone unintended. Guns used in the chaos of quick action are notoriously inaccurate...in the hands of a trained person, let alone by the average citizen.
Thank you for this terrific show!