Controversy Over Legal Protections For Gun Companies
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013-02-04/controversy-over-legal-protections-gun-companies
A 2005 law protects gun companies from liability suits, making it difficult for victims of gun violence to challenge the industry. Diane and her guests explore how gun makers got special protection, and new attempts to change the federal law.
Guests
Josh Horwitz
executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
Richard Feldman
president of the Independent Firearm Owners Association.
Peter Wallsten
national politics reporter at The Washington Post.
Andrew Arulanandam
director of public affairs at NRA.
Comments
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More than a legal issue, we should question and shame and reject the passions of gun hoarders. I don't understand how we grew to associate the conspicuous over-consumption of guns and ammo with patriotism, and think of it as a vital passion that cannot be questioned. We have a huge number of American adults, generally wealthy, spending millions of dollars on weapons and practice using those weapons, weapons designed primarily for killing other humans, claiming it is patriotic sport. What exactly is the fantasy that these people are preparing for? What situation they feel is eminent that requires killing dozens of other Americans?
Dear Diane, So glad you are doing this topic. Should we sue car manufacturers for bad acts of drivers? I don't think you can sue a manufacturer for actions taken by individuals, unless the manufacturer promises to include a user limiting device that fails, as when the wrong bio-recognition device allows someone not cleared to fire it. I was a military Arms Room Armorer, and since my unit deployed a lot, we had strict rules for who got a weapon. If there was something going on in a soldier's life, we didn't issue one until the situation was clear. I use the same rule in my own life - If something upsetting is happening, store the personal weapons with a safe entity - a good friend with storage, the unit arms room - not my own, or put the weapons in a pawn shop and pay the storage fee until the situation is safe. If you try to make gun control simple - one size fits all - no crazies? who says someone is crazy? Does violent and destructive tendencies always follow a psychiatric diagnosis? There are evil people who are not crazy but are dangerous. There are "crazy" persons who are not at all dangerous, but more likely to protect others. Overreach and overreaction are the coinage of politicians. We need experts to work this out, and I recommend community arms rooms, or even promoting persons to do some self-evaluation and use their local pawn shops to secure weapons before someone in the family makes a bad choice with a firearm.
Freedom rocks wrote: "Dan, buyers in AZ can purchase as many guns as they wish, then sell them to whomever they wish. They may KNOW these guns are headed south, is there any law that would put these people in jail? Is it being enforced?"
These were "KNOWN" straw purchasers video taped buying guns with ATF approval! It is illegal to knowingly sell a gun to a straw purchaser.
Freedom rocks wrote: "Thank you for confirming my point that no ballistic evidence supports the contention that a federal jack booted thug was killed by a FF gun."
Apparently the bullet was deformed to a point where ballistics could not be performed. As was stated, the bullet was from the kind of weapon found at the scene of the crime. This does not eliminate the linkage.
The NRA executive board is comprised of terrorists and whacko,s.. Many gun and shooting clubs,,even target ranges require NRA memberships... What a racket...
Eat much broccoli , or is that crow ?
gee, I thought that the problem with having a gun was that is that once you pull it, you almost have to use it.
and policemen with guns may not get much respect from criminals with guns, just from people without guns.
sometimes, when you recognize a situation is upsetting, it may already be too late.
If you have attended many gun shows, you know the NRA has a booth at the door. If you join the NRA, your admission is paid. Then the NRA boosts about new members, what a joke.
Freedom rocks wrote: "Please tell us why a gun dealer that sells a gun that kills somebody should be held to a different standard than the AG that has only a tangential relationship to a FF gun that ends up in Mexico? This prgram was around long before Holder took office, should other AG's be held responsible?"
The "gun walking" program under Bush had tracking devices on the guns. F&F did not. The "gun walking" program was shut down when about a dozen guns were lost in the investigation. These two programs were entirely different.
The ATF operated outside of the law, the gun dealer did not.
clifffromparma wrote: "The NRA executive board is comprised of terrorists and whacko,s.. Many gun and shooting clubs,,even target ranges require NRA memberships... What a racket... "
Do you have any proof of "forced" NRA membership. This is a new one on me.
BMJ69 wrote:
"Why do we continue to create a nation of irresponsible citizens. If I spell a word incorrectly, can I sue the pencil manufacture. what about the fork, knife and spoon manufactures....can I sue them if I become fat?"
Best comment of the day.
Dan D. asked of clifffromparm:
"Do you have any proof...."
I can answer that, Dan D. No. He never does.
Hi Dan,
When my son was employed at Midway USA (They supply many firearms supplies), while one could make a case NRA membership was not mandatory, it would be hard to make a case it was not "strongly encouraged". Departments had placards denoting NRA membership. If you happen to be in Columbia, MO. stop by sometime for a tour. I think you will be surprized how pressure the NRA brings to bear to all kinds of situations. I personally regard the NRA as nothing more than a lobbying arm of the gun manufacturers.
Steve
Spurwink Rod and Gun Club. I`m tired of doing your home work. Do it yourself. Just a GOOGLE search.
Type in, gun clubs that make NRA membership mandatory.
You mean, the only purpose you can think of.
steve s wrote: "When my son was employed at Midway USA (They supply many firearms supplies), while one could make a case NRA membership was not mandatory, it would be hard to make a case it was not "strongly encouraged"."
I bought supplies from Midway, they offer NRA membership at a discount when you make over the phone purchases. If you say no thanks, that's as far as it goes. "strongly encouraged"? not really. The NRA is a pro second amendment organization, obviously a robust enforcement of the second amendment is in the interest of Midway USA, and probably the personal interest of the owners of it as well.
The NRA has over 4 million members at approximately $35 a head, this does not include the other private donations that they receive. Nothing EVIL is going on here, get real.
Diane, all,
This whole topic is another perfect example of misinformation being layered on the American people by interests who stand to PROFIT from leading the populace in a certain direction. It is a charade.
The NRA and their constituency argues that this issue is one of protecting the rights of the American citizen, and many citizens have bought into this rhetoric and believe it to be true.
But the gun industry and the NRA are not serving the American people at large - instead they are serving an industry that profits from the evolution and sale of "firearms" - that is all. It is not unlike the Republican's backing of "the job creators", a term that was cooked up by Fox TV's programming director for purposes of misinforming
the American people and diverting their attention away from the truth, that the Republican party were and are advocates for the 1%.
The second amendment grants the right "to keep and bear arms" but at the time of its writing, the state of the firearm was a muzzle loader that could barely get off a shot a minute, and of course there were other popular arms at the time including swords, hatchets, clubs, and various other types of "arms", the carrying of which - except for the gun - was outlawed long ago. Every state has laws that limit the length of a pocket knife that can be carried legally!
Today's problem is how the "gun" has evolved into much deadlier "machine" than anyone could have conceived of at the time that the 2nd Amendment was written. With this evolution is a massive industry that profits from the design, manufacturing, and sale of these higher tech machines.
The NRA and the industry do not care about the rights of people or the legitimacy of their cause. They are only concerned with money and are hiding behind the 2nd Amendment in order to maximize their industry and profit.
Really, it is a form of extremism, holding the average citizen hostage to the rights of an industry to promote its wares at all cost.
clifffromparma wrote: "Spurwink Rod and Gun Club. I`m tired of doing your home work. Do it yourself. Just a GOOGLE search. "
You don't even do your own "home work" let alone mine. You spew hateful sewage and little else.
It really doesn't matter if a private club requires NRA membership, If that's a hurtle that is too high, don't join. There is no such thing as FORCED NRA membership in reality.
"what about the fork, knife and spoon manufactures....can I sue them if I become fat?"
The funny thing is, people have been suing the food manufacturers for making them become fat! The argument is something like "Well, they should have told me first that their product could make me fat." There is now a big push to make McDonald's downsize their portions, etc., and also to make the food industry cut back on the advertising of admittedly (by everyone but the food industry) unhealthy products.
(Personal opinions department: I have no sympathy for such plaintiffs. Individual responsibility should carry at least as far as your own mindlessly consuming mouth.)
I am not sure, but this may paint the picture with too broad a brush. I do think there are NRA members who are genuine, but like so many things that start out well intended, power corrupts.
I can understand how range shooting and competitions can be fun and I worry that wholesale labeling inflames when what we need is civil discourse. I will be the first to admit one visit to a gun show is a real eye opener. I think all politicians who have an opinion on this topic ought to attend!
Open Season:
www.efn.org/~hkrieger/xw1795.jpg
from the series, "Along W. 11th Ave."
steve s wrote: " I do think there are NRA members who are genuine, but like so many things that start out well intended, power corrupts."
The NRA has a corupting influance? How so?
"Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain"
How about requiring insurance on guns, as we require insurance on cars? Then a whole industry can develop managing the risks over a large pool of gunowners and at least health coverage for the victims of gun violence.
Dan,
I think whenever the amounts of money come into play that are on the table in the case of gun ownership, I think there is always an implicit bias. I think it is disingenuous to brag on number of new members without acknowledging how they are acquired. I think statements regarding limiting access of those with mental lllness to guns is downright sillyand again disingenuous.
This is a really difficult issue and banging away on one side or the other is counterproductive, in my opinion. And yes, I would make all the same comments about anit-gun positions.
Steve
I like the stupid and idiotic comparison the NRA made between swimming pool deaths of children,and accidental gun shootings of children. Pools carry with it the liability of 'Attractive Nuisance' . A home owner is`financially liable for deaths caused by negligence. Gun ownership has no liability,only denial and secrecy.Nobody is allowed to ask,'where did you get the gun'? And the NRA lunatics who threaten the President and his daughters lives.
Then the NRA terrorists say,'it`s because of mental illness'. Yea,and the shrinks are prohibited from telling law enforcement of the impending danger,thanks to the NRA.
It`s the policy of 3 blind mice. I see nothin,I hear nothin,I know nothin... I know our nations enemies.It`s alQaeda abroad,and the NRA NeoNutzi`s at home.
steve s wrote:
"I think whenever the amounts of money come into play that are on the table in the case of gun ownership, I think there is always an implicit bias. I think it is disingenuous to brag on number of new members without acknowledging how they are acquired. I think statements regarding limiting access of those with mental lllness to guns is downright sillyand again disingenuous.
This is a really difficult issue and banging away on one side or the other is counterproductive, in my opinion. And yes, I would make all the same comments about anit-gun positions."
I notice you say "would," regarding accusing pro-gun control people of being disingenuous or whatever. You would . . . but you don't, do you? I couldn't help but notice.
Don't try to play bipartisan if you can't actually play bipartisan.
clifffromparma wrote: It`s alQaeda abroad,and the NRA NeoNutzi`s at home.
Arrgh! Again with the "NeoNutzi's"! I've flagged you as offensive again.
Hey.... You did it just because you saw I was online, didn't you? Stop it!
maj46 you have a good idea.
I wonder what to do about situations like the Newtown shooting; if the shooter had not killed his mother, would she have been culpable. It seems obvious to me that she would but how do we stop children who were not nearing the point of being institutionalized (as I believe the shooter at Newton was) from using guns legally owned by their parent(s)? And how do we deal with guns that are stolen from legal owners? Would we not be opening a door for some ( I hope they would be few, but certainly this risk exists) to legally buy guns and arrange(?) for them to be stolen--thereby creating a new way to market to people who might have trouble obtaining a gun under current or future laws?
My stance is that guns should never be brought into public areas by any citizens, licensed or not. That's reserved for law enforcement agencies only, in my opinion. The NRA supporters probably feel threatened that only police officers would have guns on the streets though. Or, they would contend that they may have to take down a bad guy when the cops are not around to do the job. Yes, that sounds like a great plan; did you know that the cops responding to the shooting in Arizona that involved Giffords nearly shot an individual who had gone to get his gun and they thought he may be the shooter? Thank God he didn't have it on him at the time; he would likely have wounded or killed other people in the crowd and the cops might have really shot him.
Lance,
No sane person can argue against your comments her. Thank you!
Why is it. That the root cause is never discussed why after as a society feeding our children and the culture non stop violence are we surprised. We eat drink sleep media violence every day via media. Why are we not addressing why we have glorified violence but surprised Shen it happens?
You are wrong. I was t rying not be overly long. Both sides of this debate tend to dramatically oversimplify in my opinion.
Steve
I think the majority of persons stopped taking personal responsibilty a generation or more ago.
Steve