The People Who Make Our Clothes And The Conditions They Face
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-12-11/people-who-make-our-clothes-and-conditions-they-face
Dozens of Bangladesh workers making clothes for the U.S. market were killed in a factory fire last month. Debate over the safety of apparel makers and what can be done to improve conditions.
Guests
Steven Greenhouse
labor and workplace reporter, The New York Times
Scott Nova
executive director, Workers Rights Consortium
Kalpona Akter
labor activist, Bangladesh Center for Worker Solidarity
Alice Tepper Marlin
founder and president, Social Accountability International
Comments
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Even though corrupt T-Party/Republican`s Supreme Courts have pushed TORT reform,limiting corporate liability to $250,000,like here in Ohio. It`s not good enough.The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York City on March 25, 1911 brought out Outrage of citizens for the total disregard of human life,and worker rights. Put these plants in 3rd world countries,and corporate America can murder the workers with immunity and bargain basement settlements.
Although Walmart and Disney have been blamed as the primary culprits here,that is NOT my understanding. In fact,a Nightline expose listed top designers name brands are the worst backstabbers.Products costing hundreds paying slave wages.
By BRIAN ROSS (@brianross) , MATTHEW MOSK (@mattmosk) , and CINDY GALLI
March 21, 2012 ( air date )
"More than a year after 29 people were trapped in a fire at a garment factory in Bangladesh used by well-known American clothing brands, an ABC News investigation found the retailers right back in business at the factory. And labor groups say dangerous conditions such as locked gates and shoddy wiring persist in a country where nearly 500 workers have died in garment factory fires over the past five years".
A great beginning to increased work-place safety -- and a number of other work-related benefits, for that matter -- would be a healthier mindset towards unionization.
A so called "healthier mindset towards unionization" in this country has led towards private sector jobs fleeing and local governments collapsing under the weight of impossible to maintain pay scales and benefits. They couldn't even fire workers at a Chrysler plant who were chugging booze and smoking weed on lunch breaks.
The only thing they needed in Bangladesh was compliance with basic fire safety laws in which they were in violation, why they were not shut down is the question. Government negligence , payoffs of government officials who knows.
In this country so many are ready to swoop in and claim that unions were the cause of improving working conditions, this would be wrong. It was competition and the free market that was the catalyst.
"In the capitalist society there prevails a tendency toward a steady increase in the per capita quota of capital invested. . . . Consequently, the marginal productivity of labor, wage rates, and the wager earners’ standard of living tend to rise continually."
Of course, this is only true of a capitalist economy where private property, free markets, and entrepreneurship prevail. The steady rise in living standards in (predominantly) capitalist countries is due to the benefits of private capital investment, entrepreneurship,technological advance, and a better educated workforce (no thanks to the government school monopoly, which has only served to dumb down the population). Labor unions routinely take credit for all of this while pursuing policies which impede the very institutions of capitalism that are the cause of their own prosperity.
The shorter work week is entirely a capitalist invention. As capital investment caused the marginal productivity of labor to increase over time, less labor was required to produce the same levels of output. As competition became more intense, many employers competed for the best employees by offering both better pay and shorter hours. Those who did not offer shorter work weeks were compelled by the forces of competition to offer higher compensating wages or become uncompetitive in the labor market.
Capitalistic competition is also why "child labor" has all but disappeared, despite unionist claims to the contrary. Young people originally left the farms to work in harsh factory conditions because it was a matter of survival for them and their families. But as workers became better paid—thanks to capital investment and subsequent productivity improvements—more and more people could afford to keep their children at home and in school."
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=511
I hope the show discusses the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire. This tragedy seems to be an exact duplication of that horrendous event. Proof that Santayana was correct: those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
In the Supreme Court's recent decision upholding the Affordable Care Act, Chief Justice Roberts essentially warned that he will be narrowing the broad interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause, which was the basis for the Child Labor and other fair practice labor laws under the leadership of Chief Justice Hughes. The Court, under Chief Justice Hughes, reasoned that companies in states outlawing Child Labor were at a competitive disadvantage to companies that were in states which allowed, if not encouraged child labor. This unfair competitive disadvantage was the basis for the Hughes Court to allow Congress to regulate child labor under the Interstate Commerce Clause. Will Chief Justice Roberts dismiss cases bringing suit against U.S. companies who have been identified to be taking advantage of these same unfair and even dangerous labor practices? Will the Chief Justice, and his “conservative” justices strike down Congressional laws regulating or outlawing the sale of garments from these same overseas factories with unfair and dangerous labor practices?
Bhopal Indian 1984,Union Carbide has mishap,toxic waste leaked 25,000, DEAD.. The average settlement for the deaths was $2200.......Most was paid by India`s government and taxpayers. A license to kill at bargain basement prices.
Regardless of industry,regulations work.....29 dead at U.S. mine because alarms not functioning..... Oil platform fire in Gulf,dead and missing workers,all alarms found turned off.
We all know who hates workers.American workers especially.The same folks who are making Michigan a "Right to Work for Less State".
These are tragedies. But the ones screaming the loudest are doing it in their J Crew and Izod.
Oh ... and by the way, Clifford, the NY fire was more than 100 years ago. THX is right. The regulations are there. It's the oversight that is missing. Whose fault is that?
And "We all know who hates workers. American workers especially"? We do? Who would that be? The successful? The factory owners who depend on them? Are they the ones who hate the workers? Yes, if they could just kill off those pesky workers, they'd be much better off, right? Do you give a thought to anything you post here, Clifford?
To THX1138:
"Competition and the free market" undoubtedly helped, but if they had been left to themselves, we would not have had a (once) prosperous middle class that earned enough to build a firm tax base for its communities; we would still have had slavery, child labor and far more unsafe workplaces.
The union movement lifted everyone, but it has been under increasing threat, as on this very day in Michigan, by (at best) amoral moneyed interests who have bought and threatened politicians because they are ideologically opposed to workers negotiating with management as equals. We are on the road to serfdom - but not the way Hayek had in mind.
When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just "dime-store economics" - intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable.
You don't really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don't. It all gets down to two simple words. "Cheap labor". That's their whole philosophy in a nutshell. You've heard of "big-government liberals". Well they're "cheap-labor conservatives".
Quotes from: Conceptual Gorilla
1908 Collinwood school,175 children die in fire........
All exit doors opened inwards....Results in "REGULATION" of exit doors must swing out.....Problem solved...kids live.
We know who hates "REGULATION". The same mine owner who killed 29 of his workers.The same guys trying to KILL unions,who protect their members and workers.
Profits against people and planet - There's such a litany of injustices, this show could devote an entire year and hardly cover the events of a month.
Great choice for a show.
THX1138 wrote:
"In this country so many are ready to swoop in and claim that unions were the cause of improving working conditions, this would be wrong. It was competition and the free market that was the catalyst."
The "free market" was super free at the turn of the 20th century when "social Darwinism" was all the rage. Low wages, bad working conditions, unsafe products - notoriously, the Chicago meatpacking industry before it was exposed.
Modern problems include anti-trust and corporate legislating, pollution...
"The shorter work week is entirely a capitalist invention."
During the 20th century, work hours declined by almost half mostly due to rising wages from renewed economic growth with a supporting role from trade unions, collective bargaining, and progressive legislation.
mancuroc wrote: union rhetoric
Like any proponent of big government and big union, you seek to take credit for the natural evolution of things in a free market. All the positive none of the negative.
I remain unpersuaded.
I don't understand why, while operating under the premise that globalization and capitalism are beneficial, first world industries make 'developing' nations go through the perils industrial revolution all over again. There were a lot of valuable lessons to be learned about human right, safety, and dignity, and it's all been disregarded in this counterintuitive outsourcing process.
It's absolutely terrible that these companies in question take such advantage of the aspirations of these understandably naive workers...and the physically surprising their dissent when the wise up. How does that build a healthy developed nation in the end? Answer: it doesnt
I agree that western consumers have grown accustomed to low prices. However, it is actually difficult to find clothes that aren't made halfway across the world in U.S. stores and price no longer seems to indicate much in terms of origin. I bought a pair of jeans at Eddie Bauer recently that cost $75 (hardly low cost) and the tag says "Made in Bangladesh." I refuse to shop at WalMart because I don't want to help perpetuate sweatshop production but it seems like everyone is in on the game these days, Eddie Bauer included.
mancuroc wrote:
"The union movement lifted everyone, but it has been under increasing threat, as on this very day in Michigan ...."
Sorry, can't include the whole quote because it decends into diatribe, but the false assumption you make is that "the union movement lifted everyone" in a vaccuum. Not so. Since 1970 we have had OSHA under the Dept of Labor as well as EPA and other departments that look out after worker safety in this country. So the idea that we would "still have slavery, child labor, and far more unsafe workplaces" is not supportable by reality.
now I have just tuned into the show but all ready noticed that there is no mention of Walmart in the introduction. Over at Democracy Now Amy Goodman reported days ago in fact over a week ago that Walmart had blocked up grades to the electrical and other systems in Bangladesh factories. If you want a much more in depth coverage go over to Democracy Now. Far more in depth coverage on this and so many other issues
Go over to Democracy Now and search for Walmart/Bangladesh Nov 27th. Unable to link. They have had quite a few other shows on this issue. Far far more in depth coverage of this issue and as I said many others. Now you can't call into Democracy Now but far more details
this has been going onfor a loooong time, and it really is time someone blew the whistle - here and in other low-wage poor countries.
I toured a "cottage industry" site in Bangladesh, oh, 25 years ago. We were proposing on a UN funded project to further economic "development."
We didn't get the work, but I was appalled. I recall walking along boardwalks on which were placed little huts maybe 20 x 20 feet square. A lot of waste was simply left to fall through the cracks to the wetlands below. Two "industries" illustrate the conditions: (1) making aluminium pots: mostly kids turning aluminium stock into pots; dust, noise and filings everywhere. Kids barely dressed (2) making plastic shoes, with a bright yellow new machine from Japan. I remember in this shack a yellow fog occupying the top half of the room, with mostly short kids working under that fog, turning out these shoes. I can only imagine the toxicity.
Of course, with populations growing as they are, I'm not optimistic about options. Millions and millions of people need to work to eat, and most have no options other than to work wherever it is availble. the Walmarts of the world really are in control here, and addressing one factory fire at a time does not get at the fundamental issues. I don't have the answer, unless it has to do with a world wide conscious rising up and changing the paradigm.
"Don't hate the sinner: Hate the sin"
seems a good parallel to nihilist wingnut logic.
"We don't hate workers, just the regulations that protect them."
Alice Tepper Marlin seems to describe voluntary compliance as the best solution. She is a skilled propagandist who says that when labor laws are enforced the owners flee leaving workers to some sort of lesser subsistence. Sounds like the same threat big business made here as they were packing up for a low wage trip overseas. Even our miliitary and its foreign auxillaries are used to terrorize and kill labor organizers.
As a teen my figure was unique and I loved to wear jeans. It was difficult to find any that were complimentary. But I found a skilled seamstress named Fonda who could sew me a pair that fit well in one day if I picked out the fabric at the cloth store. Today I would be paying her $125 a pair (She made multiples and operated a little assembly line with helpers.) but if she were able and alive it would be worth the price. What Americans should do is curtail shopping and explore domestic production.
Domestic production for local use makes sense overseas too. It's crazy to waste fuel hauling a container of junk jeans half way around the planet. Common sense makes globalism seem insane. I have no problem with worldwide labor rights standards though.
I do understand that the businesses operating in these have a responsibility. How about the businesses, government and people of the country where these factories are? How many South Asian expats are in the US? What have we done to put pressure on the governments there or the factory owners, lets face it many are our families, to shape up? What is the US government doing with its aide purse?
I'm no business expert, but wouldn't the process improve if you simply cut out the middlemen? Otherwise what I'm hearing from this conversation is that at every step, the system tends to naturally propagate an additional step in order to try and cut costs (e.g., sub-contractor contracting to another sub-contractor and so forth).
The end result of so many steps in between the retailer and the factory, is a retailer who doesn't truly know the practices used to create their product, and a factory that cannot directly communicate with the retailer if they wish to incentivize certain improvements (e.g., ask retailer to subsidize funding for improved factory conditions).
So it seems to me that one of the very real problems here is the middle-man: eliminate contractors and work directly with local government and factories to create a better work environment.
"NIKE, REEBOK, LAFUMA, H & M (SWEDEN),GAP, BROUKS, J.C. PENNY, WALMART, KMART,
OSPIG (GERMANY), MOTHER CARE (UK), LEE, WRANGLER, DOCKERS, NBA, TOMMY HILFIGER,
ADIDAS, FALCON(USA), EDIE BAUYER, EAGLE, RELEIGH (UK), EMMILEE, FREE SPIRIL (UK),
MILES (GERMANY), AMERICAN EAGLE, HI-TECH (UK), PHILLIP-MAURICE (UK), WINS MORE,
DECATHLON".
Not all are discount. Many are designer goods at premium prices.
Economics, especially micro-economics is about delivering added value. Firms must deliver added value to their customers. Workers must deliver added value to their employer (who should be conceived of as their customer).
The customer must agree to pay a price for what is being consumer that enables all in the value chain to stay in business (the firm; the workers).
Firms that, such as Walmart, become so powerful that they can pressure suppliers into seeking continuously lower production cost ultimately destroy wealth (except for a very few) and destroy the fabric of society... They launch a downward spiral for the global economy.
It is an issue of understanding the real meaning of entrepreneurship and business. Commerce is not about exploiting the weak. It is about optimizing the return of work and business activity for everyone involved (for those who bring the financial capital as for those who bring the human capital).
One of the great ironies of history.
In the 1860s, America fought a major war against it's own people; supposedly over the issue of slavery.
Beginning in the second half of the 20th century, many American businesses started leaving and moving to poorer nations.
Why did American businesses do this?
Well, there are those who argue that it was unionization.
That might be one factor, but that's not the only factor.
The main factor, IMHO, is that the greed that inflicts so much of American life led us to take advantage of the poor in other nations.
The irony of course is we now are in the position of supporting slavery on a worldwide basis.
Seems that we lost the idealism that we fought the Civil War over; that led to the deaths of thousands.
And continues to cause death.
Even OSHA cannot take much if any credit for work place safety. There was a dramatic drop in workplace fatalities long before OSHA. See the link, OSHA's existence did not contribute in the safety curve.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-36.html
Curtis "need these low prices" Hell most people do not need most of the crap sold at Walmart. Not need...DESIRE.
THX1138 wrote:
A so called "healthier mindset towards unionization" in this country has led towards private sector jobs fleeing and local governments collapsing under the weight of impossible to maintain pay scales and benefits.
Why is it that the right wing is so quick to demonize the unions? Negotiations are not unilateral, there are two sides, and using the common sense that the right wing says is missing, one can only conclude that management agreed to the "impossible to maintain pay scales and benefits", as evidenced by the presence of a representative signature. Yet given this fairly obvious conclusion, the only people vilified are the workers.
So it's okay to have blood on our hands if we have low prices???
I keep stressing to my young adult children that the buck stops with each of us. If you don't like life-time members in Congress, vote them out. If you want to stop these horrible conditions for workers, don't buy the goods. I feel it's too easy to blame the retailers. The fault is ours each time we buy a tee from Target. That should be the focus---even in 21st century America, all the power rests with the individual...as does the responsibility!
Tammie
The situation is not much different here in the States. Business owners do not enforce or provide safety measures on their own. Only by government enforcement via building permits are their facilities kept safe. I am an architect involved in the permitting process for industrial buildings in the Midwest. At the start of the project, the owner has his plans and often his construction contract in hand to build what is not allowed by code due to safety regulations. It is usually an uphill battle to get the owners to provide the required safety elements (like additional exits, a clear means of egress and multiple stairs). Without the local building officials enforcing fire codes, our industrial facilities in the US would not be safe. Most of our building codes are the direct result of incidents resulting in the loss of life.