The Conflict Between Israel And Gaza
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-11-19/conflict-between-israel-and-gaza
Israel is amassing troops and armored trucks on the border of Gaza as the escalation of fighting there enters its sixth day. Israel's cabinet authorized placing thousands of reservists on call, heightening concerns that Israel might invade the Hamas-run Palestinian enclave and possibly spark a wider conflict in the Middle East. Egypt and Turkey are sympathetic to Hamas and are among the nations pushing for a ceasefire. President Barack Obama said the U.S. fully supports Israel's right to defend itself. But Palestinian leaders called Israel's actions unjustified even though Israel has been the target of hundreds of rocket attacks in the past year. Diane and her guests discuss the conflict between Israel and Gaza.
Guests
Michael Oren
Israeli ambassador to the U.S.
Aaron David Miller
vice president and distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center, and former U.S. Middle East adviser in Republican and Democratic administrations.
Shibley Telhami
Anwar Sadat professor for peace and development at the University of Maryland, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and co-author of the forthcoming book, "The Peace Puzzle: America's Quest for Arab-Israeli Peace 1989-2011."
David Makovsky
senior fellow and director of the Project on the Middle East Peace Process at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and co-author with Dennis Ross of "Myths, Illusions and Peace: Finding a New Direction for America in the Middle East."
Nadia Bilbassy
senior U.S. correspondent for MBC TV -- Middle East Broadcast Center.
James Kitfield
senior correspondent for National Journal.
Comments
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ozkar on November 19, 2012 @ 8:55 am wrote: “a few nights ago i heard an israeli spokesman state . . . .”
A few nights ago I heard a Republican state that the only reason Obama won the election was because he “bribed” the electorate with “free stuff”. (Actually, it was several Republicans, or conservatives, not just Romney.) Does that mean the Republicans have finally dropped the pretense that they oppose social programs because pure Laissez-Faire Capitalism is the better (indeed, only) way to help people - or that they even care about helping others at all?
Of course not. Those people spoke only for themselves, and the same is true for this anonymous “spokesman” you refer to. But within the Israeli government, not to mention the Israeli people, there are other “spokesmen” with a different viewpoint, just as there are Republicans who reject the bilge spread by Mitt the sore loser, and Faux News.
(And, though I disagree with those Republicans, I am willing to credit that they truly believe their ideas are what's best for the nation. I can't say the same for Mitt and company.)
Oh, and by the way, I oppose the West Bank settlements too.
ozkar on November 19, 2012 @ 8:57 am wrote: “it is a tragedy that israel has the military power to defend itself against armed nation states and uses that power on basically civillian populations with no capability for self defense. if America acted that way we would be pilloried in public opinion. instead israel acts as if it is above any law or standard of decency.”
Blah, blah, blah.
Oh, the poor, persecuted, murderers of Hamas. They’re just “innocent lambs”, with no ability to fire rockets (from civilian areas of the land they control) into Israel (particularly its civilian areas).
And of course, both law and the standards of decency, declare that it would perfectly proper for Hamas to do this. If “only” it could.
I do so love the way people who falsely scream “bias” proceed to revel in their own hypocrisy!
gary k on November 19, 2012 @ 9:47 am wrote: “A lot of the nations in the Middle East are going to indulge their hatred as long as the world lasts. They've been at it off and on since the beginning of recorded history. . . . How many times must we repeat this scenario before we learn anything from it? We've had our noses bloodied several times since the Second World War.”
I guess you don’t know much about World History if you think that sort of thing is confined to the Middle East. Check out the history of Europe sometime: English versus French, French versus Germans, Germans versus Russians, and on and on. (And China and Japan, of course, have enjoyed a “love fest” going back several millennia!)
It’s also worth noting that a little over 5 centuries ago things were quite different. Then it was Europe (particularly Spain just then) busy “indulging hatred” by persecuting and expelling Jews. And where did those poor refugees flee to? Many to Arab and Muslim nations, like Morocco and Turkey (actually, the Ottoman Empire, which then controlled just about all of the Middle East), where they were welcomed with open arms.
And World War II indeed has an important lesson, one which isolationists never seem to learn. That philosophy was in control of our government and politics pretty much until Pearl Harbor. There is a good possibility that had we been more “engaged” in the World before then, that attack (and the War) might never have happened at all. (Of course, we can never know.)
"Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
Dear jordan88:
I'm curious to see some proof for those assertions. I ask because I'm a little tired of people who play the "count the guests" game, and then assert this show (and/or NPR in general) has some kind of "bias". (Usually asserted by conservatives as being "liberal".)
Plus, in my experience those who complain the most about "too much support for Israel" turn out to be the same people who are willing to turn a blind eye (if not make an attempt to excuse or even justify) such "noble" events as: the Munich Massacre, the hijacking of the Achille Lauro (and the murder of elderly, wheel-chair bound Leon Klinghoffer by throwing him overboard), and most relevant of all the rocket attacks launched from civilian areas in Gaza against civilian areas in Israel.
I have no problem criticizing both sides in this conflict, but I usually observe that the most one-sided remarks come from the Palestinians and their supporters.
November 19, 2012 - 1:54 am"
Look at the Stats Strudel, before and since 1948!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a Criminal, just as bloody and corrupt as Netanyahu and Kahane and ought to be ashamed of your self.
If you want evidence of bias on the Panel, too bad you didn't notice that the fact that Israel's assassination broke the Cease Fire, wasn't brought up by the Panel.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
"emrvann2 wrote:
I was an aid worker in Gaza City during the fall months of 2011. Hamas control in Gaza is not complete. They govern as a result of having won the factional civil war of 2005-2006, but the only faction that they completely drove out of the Gaza Strip was Fatah. The degree to which they have actually been in a position to prevent other, much more extremist Islamist factions from launching rockets into Israel is probably unknowable. However, I have been reading the daily incident reports from the Gaza NGO Safety Office for 14 months, every day, and in that time only once before has Hamas claimed responsibility, also in retaliation for a targeted assassination. Israel's demand that Hamas stop the rocket attacks may not be possible to fulfill. If Israel destroys Hamas' ability to control Gaza, that will truly open the doors for many more extremist factions.
Elizabeth Vann, Ph.d
Brockton, MA
November 19, 2012 - 8:13 am"
And again, the filthy Psychopaths tried to kill the Cops and the Journalists.
Any relation to the other Vann?
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
Ferdnam November 19, 2012 @ 10:18 am wrote: “The view in Europe is that the Israeli actions are essentially pre-electoral tactics by the Likud government.”
Despite the obvious bias displayed by you (and the European press), I actually agree with you on this one, a bit.
In many ways Hamas (and the Palestinians in general) are playing into Netanyahu’s and Likud’s hands. The last thing the right-wingers in Israel want is a genuine “partner for peace” in the Palestinian leadership. Rocket attacks from Gaza allow them to “rally round the flag”, and give justification for their hard-line positions.
Earlier, oskar sneered at what he called “the pretense of occupation for security sake”. Even assuming it’s just pretense, the fact that rockets from Gaza can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (and the willingness of Palestinians to employ them that way) lends great credence to that “pretense”.
Indeed, one must admire what little self-restraint Israel has shown. If Cuba had launched missiles at Miami, New Orleans, or Houston, do you think the U.S. would have responded with just a few bombs and some targeted assassinations? Heck, we were ready to start World War III over the mere prospect of Cuba getting missiles!
So by all means, be part of the one-sided cheering section which proclaims Hamas and/or the Palestinians can do no wrong, and that Israel can do no good. You’re providing propaganda for Likud. (I almost wonder if people like you aren’t secretly on its payroll!)
@speaking:
"Those living in the concentration camp that is Gaza are "cowards." Thankfully, we have civilized men to kill those cowards by the dozens and their children, too. Rockets launched from Gaza that kill no one, are responded to with bombing "hospitals and schools" to what ends? To punish the children and infirmed for the sins of a minority. Come on ecgberht you can't even believe that. These attacks will make life more not less dangerous for Israel."
'kill no one'? Explain that to the families of the 3 Israelies (so far) that are dead. Maybe you meant "kill fewer"? If the answer is not violence, then the first one to stop using it should be the one who is least advantaged by it. Do you think Israel would keep shooting if Hamas unilaterally declared a cease fire? The fact is, the ones firing out of Gaza see their people as cannon fodder - a political tool to be used, not as fellow countrymen. Don't kid yourself.
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 2:48 pm wrote: “You are a Criminal, just as bloody and corrupt as Netanyahu and Kahane and ought to be ashamed of your self.”
First, there’s no necessity to quote the entire Comment I wrote, just the relevant part (which you clearly ignored).
Second, how is what the Panel ultimately said relevant to the point I was making: pre-judging the panel before the show even aired?
Third, there was no “cease fire” to be broken. And even if there was, pray tell how the assassination of one man (responsible for prior rocket attacks), justifies hurling more rockets at civilians?
(By that “logic”, instead of trying to “get” Bin Laden, we should simply have carpet bombed Afghanistan with nuclear missiles, instead of just ousting the tyrannical government that was protecting him.)
Fourth, yes, let’s look at the “stats”, just be sure you include the various wars against Israel employed in an attempt to (how did the saying go?): “drive the Jews into the sea”. Just be sure you include the various terrorist attacks committed world-wide against innocent athletes, tourists, wheel-chair bound old men, people dancing in nightclubs, people working peacefully in office buildings (etc.). (And I’m just referring to terrorism conducted outside Israel, and not just against Israelis.)
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: compared to the criminal activities of the Palestinians and their supporters, Israel stands on a moral mountain top, and the Palestinians wallow in a sewer!
Fifth, I’m entitled to express my view just as much as you are, sir. It’s called “free speech”. How is that a crime? And since I don’t support Netanyahu, and loathed Kahane, on what basis do you make your absurd allegations?
Or, does slander come as easy to you as blind prejudice and bias?
TO BE CONTINUED
PART TWO
You are the one who should be ashamed, but I doubt you have the capacity.
P.S. - And lay off the "Strudel", egcberht might sue you for copyright infringement.
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 2:54 pm wrote: And again, the filthy Psychopaths tried to kill the Cops and the Journalists.”
And yet you support, excuse, and even try to justify groups like Hamas, that do exactly that!
(Remember Daniel Pearl? Or doesn’t beheading Jewish Journalists count?)
ecgberht on November 19, 2012 @ 3:13 pm wrote: “The fact is, the ones firing out of Gaza see their people as cannon fodder - a political tool to be used, not as fellow countrymen.”
Well, sir, for once we seem to be on the same side. (Don’t worry, I’m sure it’s only temporary, and just for this one story.)
;-)
I’m glad someone here isn’t completely oblivious to the obvious immorality of what Hamas is up to. (Which doesn’t mean Israel should be free from criticism. But funny how those who scream “bias!” the loudest are blind to their own.)
P.S. - I was going to add something to your first Comment today, but this recent one seemed more appropriate. Maybe later.
Ciao, for now.
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
"The point, as I’ve said many times before, is we should wait until a show actually airs before posting Comments about it. I mean, it’s always more impressive when one writes knowing what you’re talking about!"
I'm sure you have comletely rationalized this to yourself, but c'mon, do you not see even the slightest shred of irony in this statement, Mr. 1:54 am?!
Dear ecgberht:
Nope.
I wasn't commenting on the show, I was responding to another's Comment about a show that hadn't even aired, which had pre-judged the panel's alleged "bias".
And frankly, I think the actual show bears me out. The panel was remarkably in agreement, and was far more "even-handed" than most of the people posting Comments here.
But, of course, I'm a "Zionist" and therefore completely biased.
(And no, I'm not saying that's your attitude. We seem to be in agreement, for once - at least on the show itself)
Again, Ciao (for now).
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
"Nope. I wasn't commenting on the show, I was responding to another's Comment about a show that hadn't even aired, which had pre-judged the panel's alleged "bias"."
Ok, as I suspected. I'll just reproduce your comment below and let other readers judge for themselves ... seems to be a little more than a comment on a comment to me.
"I'm curious to see some proof for those assertions. I ask because I'm a little tired of people who play the "count the guests" game, and then assert this show (and/or NPR in general) has some kind of "bias". (Usually asserted by conservatives as being "liberal".)
Plus, in my experience those who complain the most about "too much support for Israel" turn out to be the same people who are willing to turn a blind eye (if not make an attempt to excuse or even justify) such "noble" events as: the Munich Massacre, the hijacking of the Achille Lauro (and the murder of elderly, wheel-chair bound Leon Klinghoffer by throwing him overboard), and most relevant of all the rocket attacks launched from civilian areas in Gaza against civilian areas in Israel.
I have no problem criticizing both sides in this conflict, but I usually observe that the most one-sided remarks come from the Palestinians and their supporters."
OK, now, just so I understand the rules ... it's ok to comment before the show airs, as long as you don't comment on topic? Or as long as you comment on someone else's pre-show comment? Perhaps the DR Show should lock down the boards until the stroke of 10 et? Or is it 10:05:30 after the news? Perhaps it depends on whether you view the board as pertaining to comments on the show or comments on topic. If it's comments on the show, then do we ban comments that may be on topic but do not pertain to what someone on the panel actually said? OR, perhaps this whole pre-show comment thing is just silly, and, as long as a comment is on topic who cares?
With all due respect Etaoin - either you didn't listen to the program or you didn't understand it. If you didn't think that Michael Oren's 8 minute intro w/o response wasn't a one sided element of the program I don't know what is. No Palestinian rep followed or answered his many false claims. The notion that there is only a partial sea blockade on Gaza is laughable.
Second, the guest line up was exactly as I suggested. Aaron David Miller, David Makovsky and Kitfield came from an Israeli first perspective - none of the guest mentioned Israel's obligations under int'l law for example or were primarily concerned with Palestinians in Gaza. Billbassy was only on for 2 minutes and mostly talked about her own family in Gaza while Telhami was more or less neutral.
Third, you don't wait until after the program to claim bias - especially if you know the guests and have read all their material a thousand times. Possibly due to my early suggestion - they were able to find another Palestinian to add to the program - themselves recognizing the gross imbalance that was going to take place. If I had waited - maybe they would not have realized this.
Finally, I noticed that you failed to respond to my comments about the one sided nature of the media, Congress and the President and failed to make a single criticism of Israel in all your comments above - so I don't buy at all the suggestion that you want to be fair to both sides.
ecgberht wrote:"as long as a comment is on topic who cares?"
Who even really cares about that? I don't lose sleep because Clifford might post an early off topic comment. In fact I just did it myself, life goes on.
"Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
emrvann2 on November 19, 2012 @ 8:13 am wrote: “Israel's demand that Hamas stop the rocket attacks may not be possible to fulfill. If Israel destroys Hamas' ability to control Gaza, that will truly open the doors for many more extremist factions.”
What’s that I hear? An “unbiased” Comment busy making excuses for Hamas! The Anti-Semites (sorry, “Anti-Zionists”) never disappoint. I suppose if one person here (besides myself) managed to be critical of both Hamas and Israel, I’d die of shock.
Meanwhile, I note that far from claiming they’re “powerless”, Hamas is busy taking credit for these attacks, and exploiting them for their own purposes.
More importantly, if we accept your (false) premise that Hamas is powerless to stop such attacks, why should Israel seek peace at all, or a cease fire? The logical conclusion from your assertion is that the only way to secure Israel from such attacks is to clear out Gaza completely!
And let me make clear: that’s something I hope won’t happen.
November 19, 2012 - 2:22 pm"
Kiss it, strudel.
Maybe you like to comment on the Sh_t Settlers that Shrdlu in the Palestinian wells, burn their Homes and Cars beat and shoot them, steal their olives and cut down their trees (A Sin in their own Jew Bible) with impunity.
I get a big kick out of you Brooklyn Dogcrap, shake in your boots when the Schwartzers look at you cross-eyed, back home, but on your all-expense paid trips to Israel and backed up by the equally brave IDF, are transformed into bad, bad Boys hassling the defenseless Palestinians.
But I guess the Jew Govt is "powerless" to protect the Palestinians.
Your two-bit accusation of Antisemitism of Dr Vann ought to earn you an Offensive.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
"Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 2:54 pm wrote: And again, the filthy Psychopaths tried to kill the Cops and the Journalists.”
And yet you support, excuse, and even try to justify groups like Hamas, that do exactly that!
(Remember Daniel Pearl? Or doesn’t beheading Jewish Journalists count?)
November 19, 2012 - 3:18 pm"
You are getting as nutty as your Brother of a Different Mother, eggie!!
Perhaps, like your Bro eggie, you are empowered to palm off your scrambling, shoot from the lip Facts but feel free to demand evidence from everybody else. Well, how about showing us cases of Hamas targeting cops and Journalists?
As an aside, you must know that the Jews are recognized as the leading killer of Journalists?
Pearl wasn't beheaded by Palestinians or do you believe that all Muslims are the same?? And he wasn't a Journalist anyhow, he was a Spy who entered the Lion's Den to snoop. Another of the Jew dummies like those you defended who just innocently wandered into Iran by mistake??
It's amazing to see your typical Bullying Comments get nastier and more deranged each time you get away with your BS.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
"as long as a comment is on topic who cares?"
Nobody, pp. That's the point. The last paragraph of that post was very much tongue in cheek.
mchaun wrote:
"It's amazing to see your typical Bullying Comments get nastier and more deranged each time you get away with your BS."
Pot, meet kettle.
Dude, there is something wrong with you. I always thought Pancake Rankin was off the wall. If he's playing shortstop, you're playing second, because you two are definitely on the same team.
"Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
mchaun wrote:
First, there’s no necessity to quote the entire Comment I wrote, just the relevant part (which you clearly ignored)."
Actually it was necessary because you like your Bro, just ignored the relevant part which was about 50 People killed by Palestinians over a period of Years.
To which I replied, Look at the Stats Strudel, before and since 1948!!!!!!!!!!!
And I'll throw in a little Lagniappe, sic, the pile of maggots in the shape of a Human who wounded a little Girl 50 or 100 feet from the Wall, then went out and administered the Coup de Grace by emptying a clip in her head , just like the Nazis are claimed to have done.
And incidently, the ratio of Civilians killed to IDF in the last "War" was 100 to 1. Today the ratio is over 30 to one already and likely to rise. The absolute highest ratio of reprisal killings of Civilians to deaths of Nazis was 30 to one!!!
You wanna defend that strusel??
"Fourth, yes, let’s look at the “stats”, just be sure you include the various wars against Israel employed in an attempt to (how did the saying go?): “drive the Jews into the sea”. Just be sure you include the various terrorist attacks committed world-wide against innocent athletes, tourists, wheel-chair bound old men, people dancing in nightclubs, people working peacefully in office buildings (etc.). (And I’m just referring to terrorism conducted outside Israel, and not just against Israelis.)"
So now it's any terrorist anywhere in the World against any Nationality are the fault of Hamas?? You are crazy.
"I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: compared to the criminal activities of the Palestinians and their supporters, Israel stands on a moral mountain top, and the Palestinians wallow in a sewer!
Or, does slander come as easy to you as blind prejudice and bias?"
Kiss it strudel!
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
ecgberht on November 19, 2012 @ 4:17 pm wrote: “OK, now, just so I understand the rules ...”
Well, I knew our moment of agreement wouldn’t last long, but this is ridiculous!
What “rules” are you referring to? Last I checked only The Diane Rehm Show makes rules governing what and how we post.
Yes, I think it’s a good idea to save our Comments until the show has at least started to air. That way one can make an informed Comment on what happened on the show, instead of assuming what will happen. (As the person my original Comment was directed to, jordan88, did.)
Your suggestion that they “lock down” the Comments feature is an interesting one. But it’s your suggestion, not mine. Personally, I’ve seen quite enough of that kind of behavior from the “NPR Nanny” on other websites (now the “Diqus Nanny”). I don’t like censorship in the name of “moderation”, or in any other cause. So, if people want to make uninformed Comments about a show that hasn’t even aired yet, so be it. They just take the risk of looking like fools.
And I agree that Comments on the topic (as distinct from the show) can be made before the show starts. Except that there’s always the danger of going off on a tangent. (For example: tomorrow’s show about Tax Policy already has several Comments that appear off point, including a number concerning the alleged absence of a discussion of the Hostess Bankruptcy. While I doubt it will be raised during the show, it will be amusing should it be, and thereby render the complaint about its “absence” totally false!) But hey, if people want to say stupid things who am I to stop them?
So, ecgberht, if for tomorrow’s shows you’d like to post a “pre-Comment” that has nothing to do with either the topic, or what’s said during the show, who am I to stop you?
;-)
jordan88 on November 19, 2012 @ 5:13 pm wrote: “If you didn't think that Michael Oren's 8 minute intro w/o response wasn't a one sided element of the program I don't know what is.”
With all due respect, I guess I was a little too subtle with my later Comment (@2:12 pm - after the show aired). I specifically excepted the Ambassador from my statement about there being no “bias” on display. On that one we agree: it would have been nice to have an appropriate government representative for the Palestinians of equal rank appear to give his/her view. (Perhaps their representative to the U.N., for example?)
But your original, pre-show Comment, complained that there were “three hawkish Israeli supporters” (I assumed you were excepting Mr. Telhami). While I’m not sure the others deserve that characterization anyway, the “bias” you presumed they’d display didn’t appear. To the contrary, they all made critical comments about the Israeli government.
For example (from the Transcript):
KITFIELD @ 10:52:13: Criticized the decision to continue building in Arab East Jerusalem.
MILLER @ 10:34:04: Called for Gaza to be opened up economically.
And when, at 10:48:09, TELHAMI referred to “centrist's columnists [I presume he means Israeli columnists] who are criticizing government saying this is short-sighted even in the middle of it, and it'll get lot worse if there is an escalation.” The other guests essentially agreed, and affirmed the need for negotiations and a “political horizon” towards implementing the Two-State Solution.
Blaming Israel (and even the U.S.) for not doing enough to move negations forward hardly sounds like the views of “hawkish Israeli supporters”. (And yes, they also put blame on the “other side” too. That’s what being “fair and balanced” means: not just championing one side’s position.)
TO BE CONTINUED
PART TWO
And if failure to be “primarily concerned with Palestinians in Gaza” is proof of bias, what shall we say about your failure to be “primarily” concerned with Israelis in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. And, the way you are completely silent about Hamas putting those Gazans in harm’s way by deliberately firing rockets from their neighborhoods, knowing that’s where the retaliatory strike will hit. Gee, your concern for those victims of Hamas’ policies is deeply touching.
Not!
As for International Law? Are you really sure you want to go there? Hamas’ crimes are legendary. Since “two wrongs don’t make a right”, I’d say both sides have much to answer for on that score. But there I go again, criticizing Israel and Hamas, instead of just Israel alone. I guess that’s just proof of my “bias”.
And if you really think that you influenced who appeared on this show, you give yourself way too much credit. As far as I know they don’t even look at the Comments we post. (E-mails sent to them is another matter.)
(Of course, I could be wrong, but I can’t recall a single instance where they even mentioned Comments during a show. Can anyone point to a show where that happened? I’d like to know if it did.)
So, yes, you should wait for a show to air before you start asserting there’s bias.
TO BE CONTINUED
PART THREE
I was unaware it was necessary for me to respond to everything you wrote. I fail to see how the alleged bias of Congress, the President, or “the media” have any relevance to your claim of bias on this show. Again, I may be wrong, but I don’t recall Congress or the President appearing as guests, and I’ve already discussed the only members of “the media” who were.
Finally, as for my not criticizing Israel, I guess you missed my response to ozkar (@ 2:31 pm) where I ended by saying: “Oh, and by the way, I oppose the West Bank settlements too.
I’d hardly call that a ringing endorsement of Israel’s policy.
You also missed my response to gary k, @ 2:46 pm, where I defended Arabs and Muslims against his slanderous claim that they “indulge their hatred as long as the world lasts.” Hardly an example of “bias” on my part.
Let’s not forget my reply to Ferdnam (@ 2:55 pm), where I agreed that there were political motivations for Netanyahu’s and Likud’s behavior (and I meant long-term, not just currently), stating: “The last thing the right-wingers in Israel want is a genuine “partner for peace” in the Palestinian leadership.
Then there’s my statement @ 3:15 pm (replying to mchaun) that: “I don’t support Netanyahu, and loathed Kahane”. Look up the word “loath” sometime. It’s not an expression of support!
But let’s turn your challenge around, shall we? Where, today, have you or any of the other eager Anti-Semites (sorry, “Anti-Zionists”) even hinted you were displeased by anything Hamas has done, or remotely suggested a disagreement with its actions? I must have blinked and missed it!
TO BE CONTINUED
PART FOUR
So, yes, I have expressed criticism of the Israeli government and its policies. Perhaps not as you want, but enough. In contrast, you (and the others) have expressed no criticism of Hamas. And you dare accuse me of bias?!
I guess for you hypocrisy is a virtue. You indulge in it enough!
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 8:51 pm wrote: “Kiss it, strudel.”
No thanks. I’m sure “it” is completely unappealing.
As for the settlements (and the actions of the settlers), what part of “Oh, and by the way, I oppose the West Bank settlements. . . .” was too difficult for you to comprehend?
And for the record, I’ve never lived in Brooklyn, never been to Israel, and I’d hardly call people with rockets, who murder tourists (etc.), “defenseless”.
But thanks for your insulting language. For once I can call you an Anti-Semite without indulging in the language known as Euphemism.
(“Jew Govt” and “Schwartzers” indeed.)
P.S. - You’re probably making ecgberht angry using the “strudel”. You won’t like him when he’s angry.
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 9:35 pm wrote: “. . . you are empowered to palm off your scrambling, shoot from the lip Facts but feel free to demand evidence from everybody else. Well, how about showing us cases of Hamas targeting cops and Journalists? . . . . It's amazing to see your typical Bullying Comments get nastier and more deranged each time you get away with your BS.”
Looking in the mirror, are we?
I don’t recall any proof to back up your assertions, but I do recall you regularly hurl “Bullying Comments” at just about anyone you disagree with.
johnandere on November 19, 2012 @ 10:00 pm wrote: “Dude, there is something wrong with you.”
Now, now, john, just because mchaun suggested we share the same “Y” chromosome is no reason to be insulting to him.
Though I did warn him about using the term “strudel”.
;-)
mchaun on November 19, 2012 @ 10:25 pm wrote: “Actually it was necessary because you like your Bro, just ignored the relevant part which was about 50 People killed by Palestinians over a period of Years.”
First, I fail to see how that statement (which wasn't by me) made quoting everything I wrote necessary. I only include a quote from the Comments I reply to in order to clarify which Comment it is, and as a lead-in for my reply. Often, I simply respond to other parts of that Comment without bothering to quote them. (I assume people know how to move up and down on a webpage.) But knock yourself out.
Second, I have no idea what you are gibbering about, but I’d love to see some proof for the claim that the total amount of deaths caused by the Palestinians (or their supporters, remember them?) totals only 50. And what “period of years”?
Third, and as for the ‘stats” before and since 1948, I’m pretty sure they’ll show far more than 50 killed.
Fourth, apparently it’s escaped your attention that I’m not claiming Israel is perfect, the Jews are perfect, or that I approve of everything and anything they’ve done. So, keep your little Anti-Semitic “Lagniappe”. Bigoted and one-sided cliché’s are a poor “gift”.
Fifth, but allow me to point out one little problem with that Nazi analogy you throw around so freely. Last I checked, the Jews of Europe weren’t busy hurling rockets at Germany, murdering German athletes, hi-jacking German airplanes (and killing the passengers on many occasions), throwing wheel-chair bound old German men into the sea to drown, attacking German weddings, blowing up German school buses, and in general making war on Germany, or calling for it, or the German people, to cease to exist!
TO BE CONTINUED