Religion And Politics In 2012
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-11-06/religion-and-politics-2012
It once looked as though religion could play a central role in this election. Mitt Romney is the first Mormon in modern times to run for president and both vice presidential candidates are Roman Catholic. But many voters don’t see it that way. According to a recent Pew Research Center poll, most Americans are comfortable with what they know about the candidates’ faith. And they report their votes will have little to do with the nominee’s religion. Still, American politics is polarized by questions often connected to our religious beliefs –abortion, religious liberty, and gay marriage. But are we polarized to the point of no return? Join Diane and her guests as they discuss the role of religion in politics.
Guests
Jonathan Haidt
social psychologist and author of "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics And Religion."
E.J. Dionne Jr.
senior fellow, Brookings Institution. Author of "Our Divided Political Heart: The Battle for the American Idea in an Age of Discontent."
Michael Gerson
syndicated columnist, author of "City of Man: Religion and Politics in a New Era."
Comments
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Frontline,produced by PBS gives us a real glimpse of politics and churches in their series "God in America". The wealthy have used their cash to buy the pulpit of churches to hypnotize the people.The War on Education by Conservatives did not start with Ronald Reagan,but was the target of the Scopes Monkey trial,and even before and including the Civil War.Money talks,and even GOD and Jesus must shut up and listen.
This is a must see eye opener.Watch at PBS ,You Tube,or Netflix instant.
Separation of church and state:
http://www.efn.org/~hkrieger/xdisestab.jpg
from the series, "Churches ad hoc"
http://www.efn.org/~hkrieger/church.htm
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Mahatma Gandhi quotes.
Dear Clifford:
Just remember that all religions are not the same, and that there are many different kinds of Christians. Reform Jews and the United Church of Christ both support gay marriage, and most "liberal" denominations have no truck with the "war on education" you mention.
Remember as well that religion has done at least as much good in the world as evil, and that there is no faith or philosophy that cannot be corrupted.
Finally, remember this country was founded on separation of church and state, not society and religion. We should not make our political decisions based on religion (as the conservatives seem to want to do), but that doesn't mean religion must be abandoned.
In Ohio, Woody Hayes was God. The late great, Buckeye, Woody Hayes, coached Ohio State football teams to win. He played tough, but fair. Mr. Husted, the sleazy Buckeye, Secretary of State, keeps committing illegal procedures against his fellow Buckeyes, by denying them their right to vote, something Woody Hayes, or the real God, would never dream of doing. Forget the 15 yard penalty for illegal procedure and another 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct., that's 30 yards. Give the criminal 30 years. Where are the FBI and Federal Marshals to handcuff the guy? As far as Florida, especially Miami-Dade, S.W.A.T. Teams are the minimum. You'll need the presence of the Marshals to watch over the absentee ballots and provisional ballots in these two states. And cyber security cops to monitor those electronic voting machines and the systems they're part of, the modern day tools in Florida's Secretary of State's operative's hands, aimed to destroy our democracy.
Religion in politics is a lot like sexual practices in public...they should both be kept to one's self!
http://beyond-the-political-spectrum.blogspot.com/2012/03/religionenough...
http://beyond-the-political-spectrum.blogspot.com/2012/03/religionenough...
It's odd that religious conservatives have been so successfully demonized for simply trying to live their lives and promote others to follow a path that made this country great in the first place. Personal responsibility and personal independence are the hallmarks of the founding principals of the United States. It is plain for everyone to see the moral decay that the democratic party represents. Out of wedlock births, destruction of the family, jealousy, contempt, envy, revenge, hate, rage, you name it, the democrats capitalize on all the evils that were once considered bad manners and exercises of self destruction.
partisan politics, it's odd that religious conservatives can't see the hypocrisy in them asking for religious freedom and then forcing their ideas on others via the Republican party. Where is personal responsibility and freedom in your party? Trying to reduce access to birth control while simultaneously making it more difficult to get an abortion? Other people having sex or terminating a pregnancy early DO NOT AFFECT YOU. Nobody is trying to force you to do these things.
Also, your morals are not someone else's. If someone wants to have an out of wedlock birth you can look down at them all you want but it's their decision to do that!
As far as the Democrats capitalizing on revenge, hate and rage? Well, I can only point to the racial divide that has opened up primarily because of how the GOP stirs up its base: with racial rhetoric, fear of 'others', and a return to the good old days (you know, those days when white men had all the power). Look at the polling gaps for Mitt Romney and tell me which party is more inclusive.
Eric Zehnder wrote:"Also, your morals are not someone else's. If someone wants to have an out of wedlock birth you can look down at them all you want but it's their decision to do that!"
If I have to pay for it it is my moral responsibility to fight against it.
Gotta agree with Gandhi on this. CINOs (Christians In Name Only) have run amuck in this nation, and they certainly don't follow the teachings of their (supposed) Christ. Fanatical religions of any stripe are a danger to us all ... worldwide. Recommended reading: GOD IS NOT GREAT: HOW RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING by the late, great Christopher Hitchens.
Eric Zehnder wrote: ). "Look at the polling gaps for Mitt Romney and tell me which party is more inclusive."
Inclusive of what, depravity?
Bliss wrote: "CINOs (Christians In Name Only) have run amuck in this nation"
Can you give an example of Christians "run amuck" in this nation.
a·muck (-mk) also a·mok (-mk, -mk)
adv.
1. In a frenzy to do violence or kill: rioters running amuck in the streets.
2. In or into a jumbled or confused state: The plans went amuck.
3. In or into an uncontrolled state or a state of extreme activity
It's funny, I'm not religious in the least but I always find myself defending religious conservatives out of just plain common sense.
partisan politics wrote:
"It's odd that religious conservatives have been so successfully demonized for simply trying to live their lives and promote others to follow a path that made this country great in the first place."
If only that were so! Ralph Reed's Christian Coalition made a point of being obstreperous busybodies, whom it was later revealed were willing tools for both Jack Abramoff's operation and Grover Norquist's. The policies of the Catholic Church have also infected our politics and their influence has caused untold misery both at home and worldwide -- this while they were covering up the rape of children by their supposedly celibate priests -- to cite only two famous examples.
Religion is a mixed bag. Much of the energy and organization for the civil rights and peace movements was based in churches and synagogues; on the other hand, many religious people have nothing better to do than to get legislation enacted that restricts what fellow citizens can do, be and read. That kind of piety is pernicious.
An interesting article posted at AlterNet yesterday: 5 Questions Mitt Romney Should Answer about His Mormonism http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/5-questions-mitt-romney-should... I'm most immediately curious about the last: Has Governor Romney resuscitated the long-disavowed Mormon tradition of "Lying for the Lord"?
"It's odd that religious conservatives have been so successfully demonized for simply trying to live their lives and promote others to follow a path that made this country great in the first place."
People came here to get the hell away from people like you describe. They risked life and limb to get the hell away from religious persecution and the holier-than-thou garbage that comes with it. It was the reason why the founders wanted.... but unfortunately never created..... that impenetrable wall between church and state. To keep zealots of every stripe away from the body politic. You want religion with your politics, move to Iran.
"Personal responsibility and personal independence are the hallmarks of the founding principals of the United States."
The hallmarks of this country are "take what you want and kill anyone who gets in your way, if that doesn't work, then lie, cheat and steal to gain the advantage." Capitalism at its finest....don't assume that there is any moral foundation within the pile of hooey your describe as Personal Responsibility.
It's a fairy tale that conservatives tell their children at bedtime.
"It is plain for everyone to see the moral decay that the democratic party represents."
Your world view is sooooooo terribly tiny if you think that you can possibly lay the blame for all of the ills of this country on one political party. This country's problems go far beyond the two party system and the heart of it starts with the kind of simplistic thinking you engage in. What are you twelve years old?
"defending religious conservatives out of just plain common sense."
An oxymoron if I've ever seen one.
I grew up in a fundamentalist baptist family and am the only 1 of 5 children to reject their view as an adult. Even as small children we were forced to come inside and sit silently on the sofa anytime Billy Graham was on tv. A couple of months ago while visiting my mother she informed me she was not voting because she couldn't vote for a Mormon. A couple of weeks ago Billy Graham endorsed Mitt Romney and offered to do anything he could to help him get elected. My mother then informed the person who drives her around that today she is "gonna vote that (racial expletive) out of office". I go back and forth from rage to pity.
re running amuck:
2. In or into a jumbled or confused state: The plans went amuck
Easy answer: personhood bills. Calling a zygote a person intentionally creates a jumbled or confused state.
What we need is an honest discussion of what has become the religion of the far left, an overbearing all intrusive government that has all the subtlety of a politically correct cattle prod.
Freedom of Worship should be celebrated, but should not be confused with the freedom of one religion to impose its beliefs on society.
"If I have to pay for it it is my moral responsibility to fight against it."
Personally I don't believe in defense spending.....I don't believe in having my tax dollars used to create drones to fly over innocent people and blow them to bits. I don't believe in having an army that we can send into someone else's country to deprive them of their rights, their way of life and their natural resources. I don't believe in being the world's cop and maintaining a military that is larger than anyone else's.
Can I do anything about this? Under a corporate capitalist system probably not, the oligarchy demands we have a military to do its bidding.
So shut up and quit harping about wedlock births, the hungry and the homeless, there is likely nothing you are going to be able to do about them either.
I am sorry to hear that people believe non-religious people cannot keep their word (for example, the comments about John Locke and George H.W. Bush). For myself, my word never was based on religious faith - I keep my word because, religion or no religion, that is what we do in Texas. Keeping one's word, maintaining the bonds of community - these are the results of character one develops in themselves, not of one's faith.
partisan politics wrote:
"What we need is an honest discussion of what has become the religion of the far left, an overbearing all intrusive government that has all the subtlety of a politically correct cattle prod."
Interesting that you should put it that way. The United States leads the world both in people incarcerated and prisons per capita. The racist, classist War on Drugs is a major factor in that reality, and the routine depredations of civil rights and civil liberties pioneered in that attack on ordinary people have transferred wholesale to the War on Terror. Much of the rationale and impetus for this arose from institutionalized racism, and much of the intransigence of the Right in remedying these injustices is rooted in contemporary organized religion and public demonstrations of piety in politics.
Why when "conservatives" cite the danger of Big Government, is this all-encompassing aspect of life so conspicuously ignored? Because "law and order" Republicans like Richard Nixon started it and GOP icons like Ronald Reagan continued it? I guess government is horrible when it gores your ox, but wonderful when it condemns and controls people you despise.
Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
" there is no faith or philosophy that cannot be corrupted".
Read the Parable of the Mustard Seed. Jesus predicted it.
"Finally, remember this country was founded on separation of church and state"
Very much a mis-nomer. More accurate would be "founded on the separation of state from church". Read Amendment #1.
". We should not make our political decisions based on religion"
You will find no such proscription in Amendment #1.
I think the fact that the Mormon religion was not brought up was because he was a Republican. If Obama was a Mormon the Republican Party would have jumped all over it.
I am really becoming convinced that the left is afraid of losing this election. Yesterday Diane was hitting the "voter suppression issue", setting up the narrative that Obama will have the win stolen from him. Today she is trying to emphasize that Romney isn't a Christian, but Obama is. Perhaps trying to depress the vote for Romney among us evangelical Christians. I will take a Mormon over a secular humanist any day. Name the issue and Obama isn't on the evangelical side - and he still isn't qualified to be president, in any fair estimation.
mellifluous wrote: "Much of the rationale and impetus for this arose from institutionalized racism, and much of the intransigence of the Right in remedying these injustices is rooted in contemporary organized religion and public demonstrations of piety in politics"
Nicely worded, too bad it's BS. The destruction of the traditional family is at the heart of the problem. All the statistics clearly point that out.
partisan politics wrote:
" an overbearing all intrusive government that has all the subtlety of a politically correct cattle prod."
For some, pp, that is their religion. Once you realize that, everything else becomes plain.
Why is any candidate's faith an issue? So-called Judeo-Christian values don't necessarily make someone a better leader, and certainly don't represent the values or life-governing principles of all citizens.
What happened to separation of Church and State?
Eric Zehnder wrote:
"Other people ... terminating a pregnancy early DO NOT AFFECT YOU."
Eric, if you're still around today, perhaps you can answer this question. I have a really tough time getting people to answer it.
Should science trump ideology? The President said so. I was just wondering what you thought.
Teece Bowman wrote:
" "If I have to pay for it it is my moral responsibility to fight against it."
"Personally I don't believe in defense spending.....I don't believe in having my tax dollars used to create drones to fly over innocent people and blow them to bits. I don't believe in having an army that we can send into someone else's country to deprive them of their rights, their way of life and their natural resources. I don't believe in being the world's cop and maintaining a military that is larger than anyone else's.
"Can I do anything about this? Under a corporate capitalist system probably not, the oligarchy demands we have a military to do its bidding."
I wanted to make the same points and I wholeheartedly concur. When the Right rails on about how unjust it is that tax revenues get spent on projects and policies that they disagree with, they hold the Military-Industrial-Prisons Complex sacrosanct. The hypocrisy is striking and bizarre, but the chauvinism and reflexive use of the Bible as a weapon against people that "conservatives" hate, has become de rigueur.