Religion And Politics In 2012
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-11-06/religion-and-politics-2012
It once looked as though religion could play a central role in this election. Mitt Romney is the first Mormon in modern times to run for president and both vice presidential candidates are Roman Catholic. But many voters don’t see it that way. According to a recent Pew Research Center poll, most Americans are comfortable with what they know about the candidates’ faith. And they report their votes will have little to do with the nominee’s religion. Still, American politics is polarized by questions often connected to our religious beliefs –abortion, religious liberty, and gay marriage. But are we polarized to the point of no return? Join Diane and her guests as they discuss the role of religion in politics.
Guests
Jonathan Haidt
social psychologist and author of "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics And Religion."
E.J. Dionne Jr.
senior fellow, Brookings Institution. Author of "Our Divided Political Heart: The Battle for the American Idea in an Age of Discontent."
Michael Gerson
syndicated columnist, author of "City of Man: Religion and Politics in a New Era."
Comments
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It's interesting that Paul Ryan should refer to Judeo-Christian values, considering that in both theology and values Christianity is much closer to Islam than it is to Judaism. Both Christianity and Islam are proselytizing, faith-based religions that concentrate on what happens after death, while Judaism is a non-proselytizing, action-based (it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you act properly) religion that concentrates on how you live before death and generally doesn't even say what happens after death. In effect, we don't know where Jews go after they die (though we know that before they die they tend to go to Florida).
White males using studies to explain away White Preference for White Males as President, feels like what it is to me, a Black Male. Racial animist is real in America. Values don't trump Race in our Politics. Blacks are socially conditioned to accept values over race, but not so with Whites.
partisan politics;
Do you honestly believe that out of wedlock births, destruction of the family, jealousy, contempt, envy, revenge, hate, rage are all new to this country? Look at the beginning of this country. It was commonplace to separate families of slaves (granted they were viewed as livestock but none the less they were humans), out of wedlock pregnancies/sex were common enough to have many methods to deal with it, including shotgun weddings, the scarlet letter,among others.
Jump ahead to the late 1849-50 thousands of families were broken up and some number destroyed by the discovery of gold in the west. Legions of men packed their gear and headed west and sent the money home or took the whole family with them.
Then there is the cold war defined by the hate of the Soviet Union, rage, and FEAR. How many families were destroyed by the proxy wars in Korea and Vietnam? Lets not forget about the racism and lynchings that were such a part of the culture of some areas.
I would really like to have a time frame where these things were not a part of the fabric of the country. The real difference between then and now is that we worked as a country for the greater good of all the citizens not just for the few "job creators".
I am a lifelong active Christian. And I am very, VERY liberal. The Christ I worship taught compassion for the sick, the poor, widows, orphans, and prisoners. He said nothing about abortion or gay people. There is nothing remotely Christian about today's Republican party.
Truly nauseating how E.J. Dionne, of course predictably unchallenged by Ms. Rehm, keeps harping on about how good it is that Romney is not being challenged on his Mormonism. A religion that has a well-documented history of active racism, active discrimination of women and active discrimination against gays, the latter recently manifested in a massive campaign financed by Mormons supporting proposition eight in California eliminating the right of same-sex couples to marry.
What do your guests think of George Lakoff's analysis in which he says that we must understand that all politics is moral: "every political leader says to us that we should do what he or she recommends because it is right... and today our politics is governed by two very different views of what is right and wrong."
I am a Christian who voted last week, and I voted for Obama. I wrote an open letter to politicians who run on the 'Christian' platform, as well:
http://thegreaterrant.blogspot.com/2012/08/christianity-and-politicians....
Religion Poisons Everything:
"Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance, and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion."
Religion makes otherwise reasonable men commit the most atrocious acts under the color of religion
The title of "reverend" or "pastor" in America is a carte blanche to say the most hateful remarks.
As a progressive Christian, I do let my religion influence my vote, and my vote will be for the democrats. Jesus taught us to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry, the widows, all of the people marginalized by the religious right. Democrats in this election are the only ones I can vote for and follow my conscience. There are many different kinds of people who claim to be Christians, I choose to vote for those who do as Jesus commanded.
@Etaoin Shrdlu:
you stated "Finally, remember this country was founded on separation of church and state, not society and religion."
Really??? The 1st amendment came after the "founding" of the nation as I recall. Those who first came to this nation were seeking both religious freedom and... freedom from religious / government oppression and persecution. They were looking for a more just and free society.
In this election, those of faith will vote according to their core beliefs. Those who have no religious affiliation will vote according to their core beliefs. Naturally, those of faith are influenced by their religion of choice. Those without a faith are influenced just as much, (and possibly more so) by media, peer pressure, unions, family influence, race, personal belief systems and chosen or birth culture or life style. How can you single out religion and conservatives for their "influence" when there is just as much influence from opposing views? Should unions take money from union members without allowing them to designate which candidate they will be supporting? Every media source in the nation, with the exception of FOX is spouting liberal hype. Is this not just as much influence on the non religious and religious? Your reasoning is flawed. Agency is a basic human right - regardless of religion. Believe or don't believe - vote your personal values. You want to thwart or change that system? It works as much for you as against you.
partisan politics wrote:
"mellifluous wrote: "Much of the rationale and impetus for this arose from institutionalized racism, and much of the intransigence of the Right in remedying these injustices is rooted in contemporary organized religion and public demonstrations of piety in politics"
"Nicely worded, too bad it's BS. The destruction of the traditional family is at the heart of the problem. All the statistics clearly point that out."
Nothing BS about it, and it's hard to understand how locking people up over personal choices or untreated illnesses strengthens families. Families, both traditional and otherwise, are under enormous pressure, as are all working and poor people. If the religious Right put as much energy into fighting against economic and judicial injustice as they do attempting to regulate the behavior and relationships of their fellow citizens, they might actually accomplish the kind of ends they claim to favor: the strengthening of American families. But it seems they only value families led by monogamous heterosexuals who believe as they do.
The Bible says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Yeah, I'm subject to that dictum as well and I expect to be. But it's revolting how believers expect to be given a free pass for the pernicious influence of their policies by virtue of their piety.
Mike Sergeant wrote: "Do you honestly believe that out of wedlock births, destruction of the family, jealousy, contempt, envy, revenge, hate, rage are all new to this country? Look at the beginning of this country"
Are you assuming I think we came from a place of perfection. As brutally as some things used to be handled I do argue from the perspective that the values we used to have translated to much more personal responsibility and better life outcomes. I think most people agree with this.
What happened to religious teachings on economic issues like poverty and income distribution? Why do people limit religion's influence to social issues?
I, a Protestant, worked for many years for a Catholic School. I am not sure why everyone thinks allowing non-Catholics to be exempt from following the Church teaching on contraception is such an "aggression." I believe that Catholic owned and run businesses should also afford me this freedom.
I get so sick of this conversation!!!
I permit you to believe and worship the way you choose... Do the same for me.
They way I live my life and how I choose to worship is only between me and the diety that I hold as sacred, whether anybody agrees or condones, I really don't care.
Even in the constitution, nobody is given the right to oppress others with their religion. Many of the "christians" forget the basic tenents of their faith, they choose to judge others by their own rubrics and all too often they are not correct.
STOP THE NOISE ON THIS ISSUE!!
Mike Sergeant wrote:
partisan politics;
"Do you honestly believe that out of wedlock births, destruction of the family, jealousy, contempt, envy, revenge, hate, rage are all new to this country?"
Not new, Mike, but they saw a marked spike (one might say a "hockey stick" rise!) following Engel v. Vitale.
I am a white woman living in Texas with a professional degree. I believe government in infringing on my religious freedom. It started sixty years ago when the government took prayer out of school, the Ten Commandments, morning devotionals, etc..... I believe that is one of the reasons our nation is so fragmented today. They have no moral feelings about life.
I am not for abortion I belief it to be wrong especially the women that have tri mester abortion and you are actually asking the doctor to literally kill the baby. Come on. Are you so hard hearted to think that is just?
I do not believe gay marriages are sanctioned by God. But I do feel that they should have equal civil rights just don't make it religious.
I voted for President Obama last time but not this time. I lost my job in May of 2009 and it took me a year to find another but I took a $20K cut in pay.
Listening to this program while thinking about man y of the papers written by the founding fathers attempting to completely strip and separate religion and religious views from the Government. Have we progressed or regressed over the last century plus by closing this divide?
After all the debate about President Obama's religion over the years, I was happy to see religion was off the table during this presidential election cycle.
However, I think Michael's earlier comment about the assumed connection between the Muslim religion and the black race was narrow-minded. As the US is the melting pot of the world, I have friends of all races and religions, and many times they do not "look their part".
As a white, educated, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, Christian woman, my choice for leader has more to do with his/her record, qualifications, vision and ability to work with others, than his/her similarties to me.
The President's campaign never touched Mormonism for an obvious, political reason. To do so would have re-opened the can of worms containing Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
Religious views and beliefs slowly conform to modern progressive ideas and values, not the otherway around. In no time in our human history have we pointed to examples of social justice such as abolishment of slavery or women's rights and equality and said "yes, that came from our religious texts and documents".
Jonathan's analogy to his children playing is very pejorative towards the left. It's not that the 'liberal' is knocking down what the right builds. A better analogy would be that the child building the structure would not share the completed toy with the sibling. That's the Republican way - we'll take what we can get and everyone else is on their own.
lindacheyenne wrote:
"As a progressive Christian, I do let my religion influence my vote, and my vote will be for the democrats. Jesus taught us to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry, the widows, all of the people marginalized by the religious right. Democrats in this election are the only ones I can vote for and follow my conscience. There are many different kinds of people who claim to be Christians, I choose to vote for those who do as Jesus commanded."
linda, I think what you meant to say was:
Jesus taught us to abrogate our responsibility to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry, the widows, all of the people marginalized by the religious right and create government programs to do it instead. Democrats in this election are the only ones I can vote for and follow my conscience. There are many different kinds of people who claim to be Christians, I choose to vote for those who create government programs do as Jesus commanded so I can use OPM to do it and I don't have to do it myself.
Christianity is a Lifestyle.
This morning I was at the poll before 6:30 am waiting to vote.
As a Christian who happens to be an Africian American female,
I did not cast my vote for our President Barack Obama. My first and foremost allegiance is towards my Lord and Savior, my God and his values and what is important to him. God knew us before we were conceived in our mother's womb. Jesus' first miracle (turning water into wine) was performed at a wedding. While God loves ALL PEOPLE, he does not like our sins. And God does NOT rate nor separate sins in varying degrees/ levels.
There is a line in the beloved Negro National Anthem "lest our heart drunk with the wine of the world we forget thee". I refuse to chase after the trinkets that the world may offer and forget the one who sustains me, my husband, my children and family. There is only one saviour - NOT our government, nor our politicians, all the promises of God are yes and Amen through Jesus Christ.
Your guest who stated that race is no longer a key issue in elections is sadly mistaken. See this letter from Peggy Wallace Kennedy, wife of current Chairman of the Democratic Party of Alabama and daughter of former Gov. George Wallace. It shocking and sad, but this is where we are. Still.
"...the Alabama Republican Party has reached back into history and has become what my father ultimately denounced."
Full letter....
http://aldemocrats.org/blog/peggy_wallace_kennedy_stand_up_for_whats_right
Robin Jacobs
Birmingham, AL
To Beyond The-Spectrum (writing on November 6, 2012 @ 5:32 am):
While I am a strong supporter of separation of Church and State, and an opponent of fundamentalism (of all stripes), I cannot agree with the simplistic argument you make on your blog (particularly the trite quote you attribute to Steven Weinberg).
The truth is any faith and any philosophy can be perverted into an excuse for evil. The Supreme Court once upheld forced sterilizations on the grounds that “three generations of imbeciles are enough”. That was a perversion of Darwinian Evolution, not religion. The 20th Century alone provided two great examples of people doing evil in the name of “good”: Nazism and Communism.
There are only two solutions to this problem: Church/State separation (which removes the “sword” of government from religion’s hand), and Humility! No one was ever tortured, persecuted, or killed by someone who stopped to think: I might be wrong.
AlbertLe wrote:
"Religious views and beliefs slowly conform to modern progressive ideas and values, not the otherway around. In no time in our human history have we pointed to examples of social justice such as abolishment of slavery or women's rights and equality and said "yes, that came from our religious texts and documents"."
Sorry, can't accept the premise that the "religious right" favored slavery or minimizing women's rights. Slavery is the hallmark on this. Strongly opposed on moral principles by Lincoln and northerners who agreed with him gave their blood to see it ended. Civil Rights act of the 60's passed over the objections of southern Democrats. People of most faiths believe in equal rights for women, including Christians.
I am an adult convert to Christianity who became a Christian several years after I received my Ph.D. in chemistry. After the study of major religions, I came to the decision that Jesus was the best revelation of God available. I am a liberal independent because the Democrats are not liberal. I voted for President Obama because I believe we are judged by how we treat the least.
partisan politics on November 6, 2012 @ 8:55 am wrote: “It's odd that religious conservatives have been so successfully demonized for simply trying to live their lives and promote others to follow a path that made this country great in the first place.”
It’s odd you can make such a laughably false statement, and then indulge in “demonization” yourself.
Whether it’s banning abortion, banning gay marriage (or any form of equality for gays), banning Evolution (or mandating the teaching of the completely unscientific and false “alternatives”), banning Mosques near Ground Zero (or in many other parts of this country), and excoriating Muslims, “secularists”, or religious liberals, conservatives are doing far more than “simply trying to live their lives”. They are actively trying to control everyone’s life!
All you ever offer is slander and mindless partisan ideology. But, at least you live up to your name.
partisan politics on November 6, 2012 @ 9:23 am wrote: “If I have to pay for it it is my moral responsibility to fight against it.”
Probably the most honest thing you’ve ever said. Right there is the key to conservative “morality” in a nutshell. If something costs them money they’re against it, if it doesn’t they’re for it.
Consider abortion. Most conservatives wouldn’t dream of having one (except for the hypocrites, of course), so it costs them nothing to oppose it. But paying for the costs of banning abortion, the care of the child they force the woman to bear? Oh, that they oppose tooth and nail!
Sorry, partisan, but if abortion is to be banned, then you and all so-called “pro-life” conservatives have a moral duty to pay the extra costs, and help bear the extra burdens, caused by imposing your choice on others.
P.S. - And pray tell when you ever heard a member of the Democratic Party favor out-of-wedlock births? Democrats and liberals disfavor that just as much as you do. We just have different ideas on how to deal with the problem. (Sex education, birth control, and helping poor families deal with their social and financial problems, for example.)