Casting Your Vote In 2012
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-11-05/casting-your-vote-2012
Polls show this could be one of the closest presidential elections in U.S. history. With the country so closely divided, the process of voting has come under increased scrutiny. Lawyers on both sides of the political divide are poised to respond immediately if a court challenge is needed. Hurricane Sandy has inserted additional uncertainty into the process. Norm Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute,Richard Hasen of the University of California, Irvine,and Michael McDonald of George Mason University join Diane to discuss the latest early voting statistics, the potential for voter fraud and possible instances of voter suppression.
Guests
Norman Ornstein
resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and co-author of "It's Even Worse Than It Looks."
Richard Hasen
professor of law and political science at the University of California, Irvine, and author of "The Voting Wars: From Florida 2000 to the Next Election Meltdown."
Michael McDonald
associate professor at George Mason University and non-resident senior fellow at Brookings Institution.
Comments
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I heard a lot of tin foil hat stuff about voter suppression but no evidence. Signs in black neighborhoods indicating vote fraud is a felony? If there were fifty such signs in front of my house I would not hesitate to vote because I don't commit vote fraud. The only votes that will "suppress" are fraudulent ones.
I have heard so much about voter fraud and have no doubt it occurs, probably occurs more often than most of us would imagine, and that both parties surely have equal culpability.
A couple of years ago, I had a direct experience with voter fraud. While in Tampa, FL visiting my deceased brother's wife, I came across my brother's Voter Registration Card, listing him as a registered Democrat. The date on the card was 2006; my brother died in 1997.
When I asked my sister-in-law about the card, she replied that she gets a call from someone about every year or two asking her if my dead brother is still registered. She said she always tells them, "as far as I know." My sister-in-law is Jamaican, very bright, has lived in the US for 30+yrs, and is always in a financial bind. I have no idea why she continues to allow the fraud to continue but, in my brother's case, it does. I wonder who he likes in this year's elections.
ecgberht wrote:
"counting until you get the result you want would NOT qualify as a "conservative" value. And suddenly having ballots turn up in the back of someone's car that severly oversample the trailing Democrat would not either. "
This doesn't even begin to make sense. I have no idea what event you're referring to and you don't provide any evidence that it ever occurred. I noticed you used one of your favorite tactics in dismissing the remarks of others' comments connected to this show in demanding that they provide evidence along with their assertions. I'd just like to point out that you often don't "show your work" either: should we automatically dismiss your remarks as invalid on those occasions?
That canard about me expecting votes to be counted until I get the results I want is false and I thought disproven. I've talked about voter suppression, cronies counting votes, suspect tabulation systems and crooked court decisions. I understand you've rebutted some of that with unconvincing replies and accused me of mounting 'straw man' arguments. Frankly, I think that's projection.
But here's why I came back here, just in case anyone's still following this thread:
Is the GOP stealing Ohio?
Uncertified, "experimental" software patches have been installed on machines in 39 counties of the key swing state http://www.salon.com/2012/11/05/ohio_republicans_sneak_risky_software_on...
If were talking about trying to steal elections and the BIG picture. What about Obama and his illegal two year amnesty for illegal immigrants. Obama put no legislation forward and simply violated his sworn duty to uphold the laws of this country and made up his own laws and forced them through. If this wasn't an effort to "steal" an election I don't know what is.
mellifluous wrote:
" I noticed you used one of your favorite tactics in dismissing the remarks of others' comments connected to this show in demanding that they provide evidence along with their assertions. "
Often the "assertions" I provide are pretty well-known facts, although if you peruse my posts, you will see that I often use links if I feel the other poster could benefit from additional information. Often that source is wiki, because it is relatively unbiased and usually contains a pretty good general knowledge base. Sometimes, in fact, it gets down in the weeds like a textbook if you get a poster with deep knowledge, it has a broad editorial board (the world), and a pretty good framework for dealing with controversial subject matter. But I digress.
"That canard about me expecting votes to be counted until I get the results I want is false and I thought disproven. "
That was certainly true in the case of MN 2008 Senate race. In an odd way it was true in FL too. I said I wasn't going to re-litigate that, and here I am doing it for a second time! I conceded in that thread that more than a year later some recounts showed that Gore got more votes - but it depends on the standards you applied to what was counted and what was not, and when you get into the "intent" of the voter, you can get any outcome you wish. In reality though, subsequent counts have shown that if Gore had been able to pursue his suit and got the recounts he wanted (in the four counties), he would have lost. Our rules for selecting a President can't deal with woulda, coulda, shoulda, more than a year later.
BTW, mell, I saw footage of New Black Panthers back in front of a polling place in Philly again this morning. What do you think that's about?
mellifluous wrote:
"Uncertified, "experimental" software patches have been installed on machines in 39 counties of the key swing state"
I read the salon piece. Utter nonsense, in that they try to assign some nefarious motive and scenario. Here's how I know, and here's how I know whoever wrote this has no clue what they are talking about. First, I work with software SOWs every day. It's my business. I understand their language. Second, I know a data extraction tool when I see it. That's all this software does and the SOW says so. It doesn't CHANGE anything in terms of results.
If you want to argue that this should have been in place sooner and that the Secretary of State did something wrong, then get the Ohio AG or Stedman to bring Husted up on charges and put him in jail.
Oh, and here's a blast from the past, from 10/24 from that "ecgberht" guy:
"So 'We wuz robbed' becomes 'we will be robbed'!"
Can you say, predictable!
ecgberht wrote:
"Our rules for selecting a President can't deal with woulda, coulda, shoulda, more than a year later."
I prepared an overlong response to our last exchange, but then I lost interest. Apparently, it will never end, so briefly: A comprehensive recount need not have taken another year. That it did may have been more a function of that having been conducted by a consortium of news outlets rather than governmental bodies. In the meantime, then-Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, next in succession to the presidency after the Vice-President, could have served as a custodian of the office until true results were determined.
Yes, Gore picked the wrong strategy in his challenge. But as I understand it, the reasoning of the Supreme Court prioritized trying to minimize questions about Bush the Younger's legitimacy, and tortured reason and murdered justice in the result.
You're the one that keeps bringing up MN 2008 , trying to hang it around my neck. I've never expressed a strong opinion on that one as far as I recall, except to say that it was thoroughly litigated, while the challenge in Bush v. Gore was unjustly truncated. Your disagreement with the latter has been noted.
I'm not familiar with Philadelphia in its particulars or the New Black Panthers. I don't know what their relationship is to the original Black Panthers. I know Philly is where Mumia Abu-Jamal got railroaded and from whence he was repeatedly denied retrial, but not much more.
@mellifluous
I will leave it here then:
"So refresh my memory: where in that contest was there selective voter suppression, imported mobs that interrupted the functioning of election officials abetted by the local constabulary, the destruction of legal ballots, state Secretaries of State certifying results who were also Republican campaign co-chairs, Supreme Court decisions that sought to uniquely evade precedent, tampering with electronic voting systems, the mysterious and untimely death of a witness/participant in tabulation fraud or legalized bribery from corporations not even obliged to reveal the sources paying for political advertising? Because these are all elements of the three elections and outcomes cited by NMSE!"
Your implication - or perhaps their's - was that there was fraud in those elections and it's not been demonstrated in any case, and the implication is that it only comes from Republicans. THAT is why I keep bringing up MN 2008. Or "Box 13" for that matter. You seem to have no interest in that, nor does NMSE.
"Yes, Gore picked the wrong strategy in his challenge."
THANK YOU!!!
"But as I understand it, the reasoning of the Supreme Court prioritized trying to minimize questions about Bush the Younger's legitimacy, and tortured reason and murdered justice in the result."
Rhetoric. Wiki the 2000 election and learn about the decisions, instead of going on how you "understand it".
"I'm not familiar with Philadelphia in its particulars or the New Black Panthers."
Between this and the 2008 MN fiasco, mellifluous, it sounds like you only learn about what you want to learn about.
You can have the last word.
The Black Panthers are currently intimidating voters at the same Philly precinct that they did in 2008. In addition, in Philly, court appointed Minority Inspectors (GOP)are being thrown out of polling locations in several Wards.
These Inspectors are election officials - again, court appointed -- and are being thrown out by the Head Judges of Elections (these Judges are elected Democrats) and being replaced by Democrats. This has happened at the following locations: Ward 32, Div 13 Ward 43, Div 14 Ward 56, Div 1 Ward 56, Div 22 Ward 32, Div 28 Ward 32, Div 28 Ward 12, Div 17 Ward 39, Div 1 Ward 24, Div 9 Ward 18, Div 25 Ward 43, Div 14 Ward 29, Div 18 Ward 65, Div 19 Ward 20, Div 1 Ward 6, Div 11. Another official was quoted as saying "one of our female inspectors was physically thrown out."
Don't expect Eric Holder to do his job, again. He's too busy trying to locate 2000+ high-powered weapons he bought and lost in Mexico.
The UN Observers can't believe our system of voting WITHOUT ID.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/06/foreign_election_offi...
Amazing; we give 800k illegals immunity from deportation then have liberal judges rule it is unconstitutional to ask for an ID when voting. AMAZING! Oh, and remember...who gave you the goodies when you go to vote! And, some can vote on line with NO checks and balances to keep them from voting multiple times. One vote, one CITIZEN. With ID and ONLY if you are registered. This is the USofA, not a banana republic. But, how could elections be tilted if everyone had to follow the rules?
Where? How?
Not true; let's just go back to 2008. Philly and ACORN.
I have been checking back here since last Tuesday to see if mellifluous would show up to apologize for her accusations about Republican cheating and voter suppression, but so far ... crickets chirping is all I hear.
I also though she might show up to talk about the fact that in 59 voting districts in Philadelphia, Mitt Romney received zero votes. Not percentage-wise. Not a fraction of a percent. A total of ZERO votes. How does that happen?
In 100+ districts in Ohio in the Cleveland area, Obama received over 99.9% of the vote. How does that happen outside of Venezuela? Those were the numbers that Sadam Hussein got in Iraq. Mellifluous? Got anything on this? You seem to be up on the voting irregularities thing. I thought you might have some information on this.