Voter Fraud And Intimidation
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-10-25/voter-fraud-and-intimidation
Republicans are pushing efforts to crack down on voter fraud, but others say the problem is extremely rare. Debate over the scope of voter fraud and what's being done to prevent it.
Guests
Jane Mayer
staff writer at The New Yorker and author of "The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned Into a War on American Ideals."
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
I did an analysis of allegations of dead voters in a gubernatorial race in Washington that was decided by only 129 votes. What we found is that most of the alleged dead voters were clerical errors and not voter fraud. We found only three cases that appeared to be possible fraud. http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2002144006_deadvoters06m.html
Diane just allowed a caller to say that Bush stole the election and then she supported the caller's opinion. And democrat supporters wonder why Republicans want to stop supporting NPR which should be non-bias in providing information to our citizenry. The bias on the Diane Raines show is over the top; why should the government be allowed to take my wages to support an extension of one political party?
Every, repeat....every voter recount conducted in the State of Florida, including the audit completed by the NY Times and the Miami Herald demonstrated that Bush won the vote. History does not support your opinion.
No ID needed to have children.
Teece Bowman wrote: "Koch Brothers"
LOL, you and those Kock Bros, too funny!
Are we ready to discuss a government issued national id card? No? I didn't think so. But almost every country that requires photo id for voting has one. Also, not all states who requires id to voter require PHOTO id. Virginia accepts voter registration cards, among other documents. But the idea of a PHOTO id requirement may intimidate some voters and keep them away from the pol
College students are rarely registered in the precinct near their college unless they are grad students or local commuters. The election is not about the president only. Many local officials are also on the ballot. Local citizens must be able to select the representatives and officials without uninformed temporary residents influencing the vote. College students must obtain absentee ballots from the precinct where they maintain their residence (the state and locality they listed in scholarship applications, loan applications, drivers' license., etc.0
I agree
At 10:50AM EDT, after a caller made 4 succinct points about voter fraud, New Yorker staff writer Jane Mayer melted down and started babbling inchoately.
Jane, you're not a reporter, you're a style magazine writer shilling for the Democratic Party, your opportunity funded by NPR as the Citizen's United case made perfectly acceptable legally.
The best way to deal with voter fraud? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Republicans have far more walking around street money. Let's just flood the system with fraudulent voting until the Democrats start demanding wholesale reform.
Diane refuted the caller's opinion, and stated, as you did, that the Supreme Court upheld the results of the Florida vote. I believe that most listeners, Democratic and Republican alike, would agree--despite occasional comments by callers and guests-- NPR's presentation of issues and news events is not biassed.
Partisan:
No not funny at all. More money is being spent on this election than was spent on the last one, and more money than was spent on the one before. This simply means that rich people have decided to purchase the country.
I know you don't see that....because you simply can't.
My right wing nut local morning radio host keeps saying people had to use an ID to enter the DNC held in Charlotte. I worked as a IATSE stagehand on this event for over twenty days and only had to show my ID when submitting my E verify immigration information. It was never required for us to show our ID.
I never had to show my ID to enter the arena or when the President came to UNC Chapel Hill to record the Jimmy Fallen episode.
In North Carolina this issue has been pushed forward by Art Pope who runs several conservative think tanks in association with the Koch Brothers.
G4Kiing wrote: "Many local officials are also on the ballot. Local citizens must be able to select the representatives and officials without uninformed temporary residents influencing the vote"
Perfect!
In the 2000 election, Bush was elected by the SCOTUS, not the people. They would not let Gore recount the whole state of Florida, only the contested counties. In 2001, the state was recounted by all the major news organisations and Gore won the 2000 election. The results were printed in the NY Times right after 911 and very few people even noticed it. The biggest voter frauds have been made by local, state and Fed governments and not by the general public.
It's not the deceased on the voter roles that concerns me, it's the living, registered in more than one place. With the plethera of early voting opportunities, there is no way to know if, for instance, college students, home on fall break, are not voting at home and going back to vote at college. I know, from personal experience, that this is possible. My daughter registered to vote in the state where she was a college student and voted there. But when I went to vote, there was her name, still above mine. She had been home the week before, could have voted early, and no one would have been the wiser. She didn't. But with the percentage of college students admitting they cheat on tests and papers, and use college loan money to buy cars and houses (this too, I know from experience) what's stopping them from voting in their home states - early - and in their college states? Why don't we simply require people to turn in voting registration cards (like we do with drivers' licenses) when they register in another place? Why donb't precincts and states communicate with one another about new registrations?
This is similar.
I have 2 residences. I have an absentee ballot for Florida, where I just moved to and have a drivers license, but I am still currently registered in CT. How could CT know that so soon after my move? No picture ID is required, just proof of residency. It is possible for me to vote twice!
Teece Bowman wrote: "More money is being spent on this election than was spent on the last one, and more money than was spent on the one before. This simply means that rich people have decided to purchase the country."
Scott Walker won twice because the majority of the electorate were clamoring for fiscal discipline. The recall election produced a backlash against the democrats by those who normally vote democratic because of democratic dirty politics. Walkers margin of victory was greater in the recall because of it. In total dollars of ALL the recalls and the state supreme court election, the democrats out spent republicans and still lost. Tom Barret, Walkers opponent, funds were drying up before the election because those in the know knew he was going to lose, even Obama refused to show his face with that loser. Money did not decide the outcome of this election, end of story.
If you are talking about intimidation and fool play as well, I can speak to one example. I have been wondering why I am not seeing hardly any Obama signs in the Hampton Roads Virginia area. I know that there are supporters, since I talk to them. In any case, a friend of mine recently had her Obama sign stolen from her yard, and as I went with her to get a replacement, I heard from the Obama volunteers that it is apparently a very commonplace issue in the area. In fact, they complained that they had distributed and put out over 3000 signs in the Portsmouth area, and about half of them are now missing. I am not sure if people are aware, but it is actually a crime to steal or remove a political sign from a private property.
deleted- accidentally published twice :-)
Partisan:
"Money did not decide this election"
Money decides everything.
I thought videotaping an individual with sound without their permission was illegal under both Federal and Virginia state law (see Virginia law office statement on this below). Why isn't anyone discussing the illegality of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas actions with respect to the Moran case and others? Why, for instance, isn't Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli going after James O'Keefe with, say, the same vigor he pursues university professors who study global warming?
Excerpted from: http://www.mhlrt.com/articles/articles_coughter_video.htm
Copyright @ 2010 MichieHamlett
What Are The Legal Ramifications Of Videotaping Or Recording An Adverse Party's Telephone Conversations?
by ELIZABETH COUGHTER
Currently in Virginia, there are laws that prohibit the videotaping or filming of another and the illegal interception of a wire, electronic or oral communication. There is Virginia Code §19.2-61 et. seq. which is the Interception of Wire, Electronic or Oral Communications Act which is similar to the federal proscription against such conduct. 18 U.S.C. §2510 et. seq. These wiretapping statutes may also apply to videotaping and are broader in scope.
The wiretapping statute applies to certain videotaping which records oral communications. Videotaping which lacks voice recording has not been prohibited by either state or federal law.
Teece Bowman wrote:" Money decides everything."
There is a difference in elections about money and elections bought by money. In this instance it was about money.
To understand how far the fruit has fallen from the Republican tree, consider the 1965 Voter Rights Act.
Following the passage of the Civil Rights Act, civil rights organizations pushed for legislation that would ensure black voting rights once and for all.
In both houses, a higher percentage of REPUBLICANS than Democrats voted for the Act.
The Senate Republican vote was 30-1 IN FAVOR.
The bill’s importance was so self-evident that even four SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS (Albert Gore, Sr., Ross Bass, George Smathers and Ralph Yarborough) voted in favor.
As for this voter fraud hysteria, committing voter fraud is a stupid way to attempt to win an election because the risk is FIVE YEARS IN PRISON and a $10,000 FINE, and yields just ONE VOTE!
There’s no evidence of a voter fraud epidemic. There is no trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing they are ineligible.
The Brennan Center for Justice at NYU LaW School noted voter fraud "...happens approximately 0.0009% of the time.”
This is about as often as Americans are struck and killed by lightning.
It's like trying to cure dandruff by decapitation.
Only there isn't any dandruff. And Republican voter obstructionists know it.
Partisan:
In Wisconsin the election was purchased by BIG money. We will have to wait until the morning of November 7th to see whether big money and the Republican party will be successful in purchasing the entire country.
I have been a poll worker, deputy city clerk, voter registrar, and election observer in the State of Michigan. I have heard two shows about voter ID’s and fraud and I am appalled at your guest speaker' lack of knowledge about registration and voting procedures.
In order to vote you must first register. The answer to people who contend that picture ID’s are an appropriate requirement on election day because one has to show an ID for other government tasks such as entering a secure building or buying a gun is that the identification process takes place at REGISTRATION. Registration is the process where you identify yourself, affirm you are a citizen, give your correct address and swear an oath with a penalty of perjury that you are being truthful and sign your name. This is already covered before you vote.
At every state I am familiar with, when you vote you fill out an application with your name, your signature and your address, swearing a written oath that you are who you say you are. The election workers have printouts of you, your address and typically, your signature. No ID is needed because your oath and your signature does the job, as it has for over 100 years.
This crop of ID laws is a blatant, coordinated and well documented attempt by Republicans to remove as many marginal people as possible from voting because those marginal people are typically Democrats. The Republicans have had training sessions on it, many of them funded by the Koch organizations. Have someone do some research on that.
It frustrates me to hear speakers on your show being stumped by the other side like your caller with four points today, simply because your speakers don’t know how registration and voting works. Perhaps a show on a state by state study would be beneficial to help educate America as to how the process actually works, rather than urban legends and propaganda about how it supposedly works.
The Republican Party will never make significant inroads into the minority communities if they continue these types of strategies. When the matriarch of the family (granny) is treated bad at the poles and blames a political party, that party just lost 3-4 generations of people. Do the math.
Many minorities share many conservative views but these games and the mean spirited rhetoric, along with the "those people" and "take our country back" themes, undermine anything the RNC can say.
It is clear that the intent of these efforts is voter suppression of groups that they are unwilling to court. Shame on the RNC
Usually when someone solves a problem they don't have, more problems are created than if nothing was done in the first place...
Interesting point, votekeeper. Someone attempted to forge my signature (along with a few hundred others) on a candidate's petition a few years ago. The officials who were involved have lost their jobs, have been indicted, and the case will soon go to court.
Regarding fake ID's-- for the ability to obtain alcohol or admission to bars on multiple occasions with a single card, the risk/effort/expense may be worth it. to fraudulently cast a ballot a couple times a year, probably not.
I have worked as precinct election official in Indiana for the past 10 years. Only one or two registered voters per year have shown up without appropriate state or federal photo ID. So, they cast provisional ballots.
I like the ability to confirm voters' addresses, and, if they are in the wrong precinct polling place, direct them to the correct places, or have them submit change-of-address forms so they'll be registered in the precinct where they reside for the next election.
AND we do check SIGNATURES, as you suggest. It's really about honoring the equal right of each citizen to cast one legitimate ballot.
@Thomas McGuire - Sorry Tom, but Jane Mayer is a shill for the democratic party and a hack writer. Why is she on this panel again???
seethrufaded wrote:
"what kind of id gets shown for online, absentee, other types of not in person voting?"
For absentee I can answer since I cast absentee just yesterday for this year's election. A notarized signature of the voter (or the person marking the ballot if they are unable to) is required. As I'm sure you know, a notarized signature means that the person signing is known to be who he claims to be by the notary. Since our notary (who knows me) is on vacation this week, I went to the bank, showed my DL, and got my ballot notarized. Not a big deal.
"The only possible type of voter fraud I can imagine might pay (in small or close elections) would be group fraud, like someone at a nursing home getting a couple of hundred ballots of incompetent people."
Actually there are many ways to fraudulently change elections - not just by increasing counts for the candidate you want (like say, suddenly finding ballots in the back of a car or in Box 13), but by removing ballots of the candidate you don't want. Potential fraud goes far beyond voter ID, but it's a good place to start.
@"areyoukiddingme"
Diane allowed the caller to say that, but then immediately slammed him down as firmly as (though much more kindly than) any Limbaugh. She was right to do so, too--and you are just in denial of definite fact to maintain otherwise. Also, NPR as a whole is mandated to be impartial, but individual segments can be with just one side or the other. Remember that guy from Bain Capital who was on arguing in favor of rising inequality? Diane was awfully nice to him, too.
But, boy oh boy, do I have to take on your ridiculous statement about Florida 2000. First of all, you're already confused when you say "every voter recount conducted in the State of Florida". I have no clue what you mean by that, and I doubt you do, either. But, despite the lamestream media's unwillingness to even consider the possibility, it is just plain fact that the 537 votes by which Bush "won" Florida and thus the nation (despite actually having a minority of votes nationwide, with Gore easily ahead by half a million votes), are canceled out multiple times over by the number of votes clearly marked for Gore that were illegally thrown out by the Republican-hired recount experts. And that's not to mention the big one: *Before* the election, a purge of the voter rolls eliminated tens of thousands of reliably Democratic voters (racial minorities, poor and disenfranchised) on charges of being felons. The surprising thing is that "only" 90%+ of the felony charges were... INaccurate?! That's right. Carefully chosen criteria ensured that the smallest possible number of those purged would be those who the purge was ostensibly aimed at, while three-quarters of them were demographically likely progressives. This was ultimately, devastatingly proven by Greg Palast, post-2000.
Even then, those who were kicked off the voter rolls weren't put back on.
(continued)