The First Presidential Debate
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-10-04/first-presidential-debate
The first presidential debate was held last night in Denver. Diane and her guests discuss what they said, who came out ahead, and where the candidates go from here.
Guests
E.J. Dionne Jr.
senior fellow, The Brookings Institution, columnist, Washington Post and author of "Our Divided Political Heart: The Battle for the American Idea in an Age of Discontent."
Ramesh Ponnuru
senior editor for the "National Review."
Susan Page
Washington bureau chief for USA Today.
Comments
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Topic:Who's Believable and Can Be Trusted?
My guess is that the President will try to show he's pro-business, while defending the little guy; the Governor will try to show he's defending the little guy, while being pro-business. Who would be more believable? Siphoning American job overseas and hiding your company in a Cayman P.O box is a one-two punch for increasing unemployment and increasing the deficit. No tax increase for anyone and we'll predict economic growth for everyone, says the Governor, but where's the model that shows how this is done?
The Governor claims business success, but how did he succeed and at whose expense?
The President exhibited good business sense when negotiating last summer with the Republicans, by saying, "First things first, raise the debt limit now to avoid a credit rating downgrade. Resolve budget disagreements later." It was Republicans who refused to raise the debt limit. The result was the first U.S. downgrade. Secondly, keeping business honest increases the public's confidence in business. A Consumer Protection Agency already resulted in reimbursements in the millions. Forcing Wall Street to (a) stop rigging the odds and put some skin in the game and (b) dismantle Wall Street computer models that fake security by equating Junk Bond security to AAA Bond security are both pro-business and pro little guy. It's both pro-Wall Street and pro-Main Street.
So, who's more believable and who can be trusted?
!!!!! NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH !!!!
THE CONSERVATIVE MEDIA HAS JUST DISCOVERED A VIDEO (that has been available online for about five years)
THAT PROVES UNEQUIVOCALLY
THAT PRESIDENT BARACK !!!!! HUSSEIN !!!!! OBAMA
IS A !!!! BLACK GUY !!!!!
WHO ATTENDED A !!!! BLACK CHURCH !!!!
WITH A !!!! BLACK PASTOR !!!!
AND SOMETIMES TALKS WITH A !!!!! BLACK !!!!! ACCENT
WOW WHO KNEW.
Thank you conservative media for reminding us that he is one of those "Others" that are desperately trying to ruin our country.
At least we will be prepared if he tries to fool us in the debates by trying to talk like a white guy.
Partisan,
I think you could have stopped right here:
"Excuse me if I don't think...."
and left it at that.
If Romney already won the debate what happened to his bounce?
For those who haven't watched Mitt Romney for the last 10 months he made full use of his etch-a-sketch positioning in last night's debate.
Is it just me, or did Romney just become a severely conservative Democrat? I wonder what the conservatives think; did he just throw the entire Republican party under the bus? And what was that about repealing Obamacare but keeping everything he likes about it? How do you do that? I must admit, despite the fact that he's already taken every side of every issue, I think I know less about what he would actually do now than I did before. Does anyone know what he would really do? Are Republicans going to vote for, well, who knows what?
Near as I can tell he's going to:
Raise your taxes while insisting he's not
Replace Obamacare with Romneycare
Replace Dodd-Frank with something indistinguishable from Dodd-Frank
Is that about right?
Topic: The Governor's Sophistry and Doublespeak
The Governor claimed there are as many 23 million unemployed (and quietly added underemployed.) Awful, yes. But the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the 8.3% unemployment rate means 12.8 million unemployed. 23 million=12.8 million? He then ended with there are 23 million unemployed. Period. First tell a half lie, then when you end, with a blanket lie, who's to know the difference? Principled?
The Governor took the advice of George Orwell, who exposed “Doublespeak” in his book, 1984. Doublespeak language deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. The Governor built up to a lie at the end of the debate with his claim of 23 million unemployed. He then “corrected” or “played” with his lie when he said that he'll cut the the number of unemployed by 12 million jobs. Just change the definition of unemployed then you “cut” the number unemployed by 12 million jobs. As in George Orwell's 1984, he writes a new dictionary distorting the meaning of words. 23 million unemployed (and underemployed), continue with the full lie of 23 million unemployed and then take credit of cutting 12 million unemployed by simply changing the definition of unemployed.
The Governor was Rovian coached by the Biblical Balaam's reincarnation himself. The Governor's moment of glory? -- epitomized sophistry, casuistic sophistry.
Romney uses President Bush logic for the Bush Tax Cuts, that is, we will grow the economy to balance the low tax rates. This is just a snake oil sales slogan. It is time to recognize that the reasonable pre-Bush tax rates of the 1990s were balancing the budget even while middle class wealth was increasing! As businesses moved manufacturing overseas, the middle class wages have deteriorated and lower tax rates haven't helped maintain middle class wealth. However, the upper management extended their own earnings and paid less in taxes. What a boon! With Romney as President we can expect an ever increasing percentage of the nation's wealth sitting in Swiss bank accounts.
When will Democrats be Democrats and call out for economic and tax rate fairness? President Obama and today's conservative Democrats talk and lead more like moderate Republicans. If Obama continues debating as a moderate Republican he will fail to inspire and lose the election. He has got to step up and challenge Romney who is working hard to justify his 15% tax rate with a snake oil sales pitch.
to Jim Gamble:
Yes, Romney is not a ideologue and he is now shaking the Etch-a-Sketch. Since Obama is more like a moderate Republican than a Democrat, Romney now becomes the slightly-more-pro-business Obama.
With his energetic attack on President Obama, his strategy just might work.
Does anyone with a molecule of intelligence believe that the worst post-war economy, which includes being inches away the collapse the global marketplace, that took the last decade of liberal and conservative policies to create was only going to take four years to "fix?"
Sure, doing nothing and "letting the market correct itself" would have been one way to attempt to address it. But ask yourself...would you allow your child to "correct themselves" or would you attempt moderate their behaviors? How about the house you live in? Would you feel obliged to allow it to maintain itself without maintenance or let the house "clean itself?" Do we allow criminal behavior to "correct itself," or do we take action to put them in jail?
Anyone who thinks any single person could have fixed everything wrong with the economy in only 4 years is insane. Americans truly have short memories and no patience...as well as unrealistic expectations. And no, tax cuts wont solve everything...not even close.
http://beyond-the-political-spectrum.blogspot.com/
I watched the "extended" version of the debate on-line (where the Obama/Romney debate was paused at each question and the 3rd parties were allowed to give an answer). I was impressed with Rocky Anderson (Justice Party). He wants return to Clinton era tax rates, re-implement the Glass-Steagall Act, and cut the military spending to year 2000 levels. Jill Stein (Green Party) with her version of a New Deal program was also good, but a little less clearer on how to pay for it. Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party) declined to take part.
Why aren't people being allowed to see that there are other candidates? Why the 2-party stranglehold in the media and in the government?
Some "debate" !(?)
Not sure who the two guys were last night trading bean bags. The former "conservative" Governor of Massachussetts morphed into someone who would set aside all the things he has been telling his tea party backers for the entire primary season and then take just about every plan that Obama would do and just re-brand it as his own.
Privatizing Social Security?......Gone
Renewal of the Bush tax cuts and more tax cuts?......Gone
Obamacare repealed?........Yes, but retaining EVERY aspect except the cost Advisory Board..........(call it Romneycare Federal)
Ryan's 716Billion cut from Medicare?........Gone
Voucherized Medicare?........still there but a second MedicareLite that somehow costs zero (supposedly the same zero premium as Medicare but better?) Note: Medicare DOES have premiums NOW....despite many statements to the contrary.
And the Prez appeared to be hanging around just marking time until his anniversary dinner reservations were ready........ho hum.
Maybe a couple of actual candidates will show up next time.......or maybe they just send in the same body doubles while they are on the campaign trail.
NOTE:
If you are in your lower 50s, and you have been working since your 20s, you have been paying into Social Security and Medicare for 30+ years..........and RomneyRyan plan to ignore your EXISTING investment because you have built up a feeling of dependency........you victims.
You WILL be victims if your investments are tossed aside...........30+ years GONE.
Those who have worked since 1965 have paid Medicare taxes for 47 years.....you slackers....you careless schlubs.......you who want something for nothing.
Maybe all retirees will just take their entitlements and move themselves offshore along with their investments and assets.......and spend them in other countries.
Actually, I listened to the Yankees-Red Sox game last night. No need to listen to the debates because I have never liked beauty pageants. The only difference in the two contestants last night was the quality of their makeup. LOL
PS: I've already decided how I will vote, and two guys trying to score points won't change a thing.
I watched the debate and couldn't believe the analysis afterwards provided by the talking heads! I was taken aback by Romney's initial dismissal of the moderator's effort to keep to the schedule; his comments seemed as empty of specifics as ever, his plastic smile never left his face. iIn contrast, Obama was reported as being too professorial, as grimacing, etc., all of which suggested to me he was actively engaged and reacting to what he was hearing. I thought that for the most part, he made his points clearly and that they were substantive. I also thought Jim Lehrer did a terrible job of conducting the debate. He simply was not capable of bringing the two participants back to the prepared schema to which I presume they agreed to follow at the outset. Actually Romney reminded me of John McLaughlin who makes it a habit of stepping on the responses of others. The debate would have been much improved if a panel of questioners had been presenting direct questions to the candidates as was done in the primary debates.
Romney was certainly the loudest as he talked over the President and Mr. Leher.
"Boyond The Spectrum wrote:
Does anyone with a molecule of intelligence believe that the worst post-war economy, which includes being inches away the collapse the global marketplace, that took the last decade of liberal and conservative policies to create was only going to take four years to "fix?"
Sure, doing nothing and "letting the market correct itself" would have been one way to attempt to address it. But ask yourself...would you allow your child to "correct themselves" or would you attempt moderate their behaviors? How about the house you live in? Would you feel obliged to allow it to maintain itself without maintenance or let the house "clean itself?" Do we allow criminal behavior to "correct itself," or do we take action to put them in jail?
Anyone who thinks any single person could have fixed everything wrong with the economy in only 4 years is insane. Americans truly have short memories and no patience...as well as unrealistic expectations. And no, tax cuts wont solve everything...not even close."
At last, a sane and logical comment. I totally agree.
Beyond wrote:
"Does anyone with a molecule of intelligence believe that the worst post-war economy, which includes being inches away the collapse the global marketplace, that took the last decade of liberal and conservative policies to create was only going to take four years to "fix?""
Yes. Barack Obama.
“One nice thing about the situation I find myself in is that I will be held accountable. You know, I’ve got four years… If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”
I have noticed that the Media seems to be re-debating the debate, That is, the Media are now stating the Talking/Debating Points that they think Obama should have made.
Is it the job of the Media to make the case for Obama and what he might have said?
Hey partisan and ecgberht!
I was hoping to see you comment on something yesterday--to see if you both had a mind for other things.
I guess since there was nothing politics-related as a topic that you weren't interested. ijs
Mitt Romney TOTALLY etch-a-sketch on EVERYTHING he discussed and supported during the primary. He DID say in 2009 that "Romneycare" should be a model for the nation, but he did NOT say for the States. He said throughout the primary and campaign that he would repeal and replace Obamacare, BUT leave in stuff that he likes. Either he likes it or he doesn't.
That man is a plastic trojan horse who can't be trusted. And I think that the third party candidates also be included. It's amazing what corporate donations can do.
IndieLady7 wrote:
"I guess since there was nothing politics-related as a topic that you weren't interested. ijs"
Well, par for the course, Indie, you guess wrong.
I am out of town visiting a client (because I have a job, you see), not sure what pp was up to yesterday. Check my posts. I post on non political topics as well.
By the way, IL7, why are you not challenging others on this point? The numbers of comments often spike on political topics, especially on Fridays. Yet you single us out? And, why do you care what topics other people post about in the first place? Do you not have anything better to do than keep a record of when pp and I post?
@Jim Gamble:
No Jim, Romney didn't "throw the entire Republican party under the bus." What he did is actually outline what the nation can do with a little elbow grease and a bi-partisan effort. He also did it without telling Democrats to "go to the back of the bus".
Raise your taxes and invest wisely....sure beats mindless spending
Replace Obamacare with Romneycare....a side by side financial and functional comparison of the two programs speaks volumns, Jim.
Replace Dodd-Frank....Yup. Their mismanagement of the Fed and their "chicken in every pot" policy is part of why we are, where we are today, financially.
ecgberht wrote: "Well, par for the course, Indie, you guess wrong.
I am out of town visiting a client (because I have a job, you see), not sure what pp was up to yesterday. Check my posts. I post on non political topics as well."
I work too. As a matter of fact, I listen to the DR Show while working. I do check all the other topics, and to be honest, I don't recall seeing you posting anything other than politics. If I am wrong, and if I do see a post that's non-political, then I stand corrected and will admit to being wrong.
ecgberth wrote: "By the way, IL7, why are you not challenging others on this point? The numbers of comments often spike on political topics, especially on Fridays. Yet you single us out? And, why do you care what topics other people post about in the first place? Do you not have anything better to do than keep a record of when pp and I post?"
I challenged you two because you both are the ones that have the most to say about politics. I have seen other comment on non-political subjects. Yesterday's topics were about Omega-3's and the Khan Academy--which is an online school. I would love to have seen your viewpoints on those.
I don't get it. Romney is going to lower taxes yet remain revenue neutral by closing loopholes. So somehow this "tax break" is going to create millions of jobs. He needs to give some more information rather than rhetoric!
The closing remarks were more telling for me than the actual debate. The President was inspirational in his words, from Romney there was nothing but negativity.
equalizer wrote:
Romney was certainly the loudest as he talked over the President and Mr. Leher.
Yes, he came across as rude, obnoxious and desperately hysterical.
I watched the Alfred Hitchcock hour and waited for the reaction, at this point that's all that matters. So glad to hear that competence won out over incompetence. My take on the reaction is that many are actively looking for reasons to vote Obama out, from what I hear they got it.