Environmental Outlook: Elephants And The Ivory Trade
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-10-02/environmental-outlook-elephants-and-ivory-trade
The 1989 global ban on ivory trade was supposed to end the widespread slaughter of elephants in Africa -- it hasn’t. Exact numbers are hard to come by, but by almost every estimate, poachers are now killing tens of thousands of elephants a year, more than at any time in the last two decades. Increasingly, the killers are armed militants seeking quick cash, and demand for smuggled ivory is strong. In Southeast Asia it remains a prized material for religious carvings, and in China it’s coveted by the newly enriched middle class. Please join us to discuss the illegal ivory trade and the future of Africa’s elephants.
Guests
Bryan Christy
investigative reporter and author of the October 2012 National Geographic article, "Ivory Worship."
Joyce Poole
co-founder of ElephantVoices.
Richard Ruggiero
chief of the Near East, South Asia and Africa branch in the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service division of international conservation.
Robert Hormats
Under Secretary of State for economic, energy and agricultural affairs.
Related Video
National Geographic Reporter Bryan Christy discovers how religion plays a role in the problem of ivory trafficking. From "Blood Ivory," the October 2012 cover story of National Geographic magazine.
Comments
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Thank you for hosting such distinguished guests. What can be done to stop the carving?
China must stop subsidizing its China Arts and Crafts Association (CACA) which should be one of the easiest aspects of this slaughter to target (though none of it is easy) in order to stop the chain of supply. No carvings = nothing to buy. As we read in 'Blood Ivory' the government fosters carving schools, factories and retail outlets. Decreasing demand is almost impossible for a culture increasing in population which believes in ivory talismans and literally eats with ivory chopsticks which are the status of our Tiffany silverware. Even if China convinced 99.9 percent of its population not to buy ivory, that remaining 0.1 percent represents 1.3 million people still wanting to buy it - three times more people than there are elephants left in Africa.
Thus the world must make China loose face for the harm it is doing to so many species for their body parts, rhino immediately. It has been my dream to see a billboard in triptych on the interstate to Dulles and/or near the Chinese embassy that says: CHINA STOP IT! STOP POACHING (dead rhino w/o horn) STOP CARVING (carved tusk) STOP SELLING (hundreds of store trinkets). Wish Nat. Geo would do it for it certainly has the gruesome photos. The world needs an in-your-face reality of the slaughter. Only when China knows that the rest of the world, including those in power in DC, understands they are at fault for this looming extinction of many species, will they then stop it, or at least slow it down. A world of elephants unhappily cramped in inappropriate zoos is too terrible to contemplate - yet even there animals are now being poached, so fevered has become the frenzy.
In the mean time the earth is being ravaged, the population increases with more greedy people perpetrating devastation for a few pieces of paper, money, on a planet that is dying - and no one is talking Zero Population Growth. www.facebook.com/saveallelephants
Because I live in Hawaii and it would be too early to participate live, I'm submitting this for your panel in advance.
Both Obama and Romney have been "chastising" China on various issues except this one: why have they remained silent on the ivory poaching that China enables?
Also, I understand that Nepal is now using UAV's (unmanned aerial vehicles) to track and protect their wildlife; so my perhaps romantic fantasy is for the U.S. to send air force teams with Predator drones to the African countries wanting help. Therefore, the poachers could be killed in exactly the same way terrorists are killed: would this be Mission Impossible? Please, no lame excuses for inaction!
Thank you,
Wiley Knight, Kamuela, Hawaii
Your listeners also might enjoy an interview recorded for the Joy Trip Project podcast with elephant advocates Dag Goering and Maria Coffey recorded last year at the Banff Mountain Film Festival during their photo exhibit called Elephant Enigma: http://joytripproject.org/2012/elephant-engima/
Good Morning. A priest in Cebu City, Philippines is being linked to the smuggling of ivory from Africa into the country (Philippines). Any comments or information about this issue?
PMQuinn
Diane~~ thank you so much for opening your program to this tragedy regarding the elephants.
too bad something couldn't be done to "discolor" or otherwise change the ivory on the elephant, without harming the elephant, so the ivory would be worthless? maybe something with food supplements to change the color of the ivory?
~~Donna
First let me say killing elephants for ANY reason is abhorrent, not least because they are demonstrably intelligent--but given the distances to cover and the manpower available, it seems impossible to protect the ones that are left--so why not shift gears: 1) Is it possible to harvest ivory without killing? It seems to me I have seen circus elephants with blunted tusks. If that could be done, it would satisfy an economic need without committing species extinction. 2) find a way to convince the poachers that, in the long run, it would be more economically viable to "harvest" elephants as an item of tourist trade--certainly more perpetuative than killing them!! 3) research and develop OTHER economic outlets for those who are poaching. 4) encourage the UN or SOMEone(s) to enforce the strictest penalties available, for all trafficers, from harvesters to consumers. And surely there are reasonable substitutes for ivory, for their stupid carvings! I am reminded of the battle to save the whales, still ongoing, and sharks as well, who are being slaughtered by thousands for their fins as food. Humans make me sick.
In that China has a long range planning perspective, and as your guest says this poaching contributes to destabilizings governments, would it be true to say the issue is linked to China's long term interest in needing farms to feed its people: Increase demand for ivory, destroy the elephants, destabilize nations and thereby open all land to development?
I lived in Kenya for a year and a half while serving as a Marine Security Guard at the American Embassy in Nairobi. It was one of the most enjoyable times in my life. I had the pleasure of seeing these animals first hand and have great respect for them. I miss Kenya’s people and wildlife and wish that we could do something to protect the elephants.
As a veteran US Marine I have a novel idea here... Let's look at this issue a little differently. As with most issues this one revolves around the monetary aspect. The sheer volume of cash that China is throwing at the market is going to continue to make the situation worse. If we expect to stop the poachers we need to be willing to throw some cash at the problem as well. Since Marines are wrapping things up in Iraq and Afghanistan we highly skilled and, in many cases, looking for new employment opportunities. If you can pay me even a modest salary and provide accommodations I would LOVE to out some of my skills to good use on some poachers. To me this sounds like a great reason to dust off my M-4 and tactical gear!
I'm sure I'm not alone.... I can call a few friends and form my own little poacher control taskforce.
I see, today is " Highlight in China " Day, but the interesting thing is: looking into the DARK always always is confusing. So, how about have some experts to shed some perspectives from the inside? Someone who is Chinese. You know, the culture in China is: one can be and stay an international while living IN China, you are your own island type, and not really have a good clue on what 's going on ?
Maybe Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt and other well-known stars could go on an excursion to these countries to discourage ivory buying! Hold free concerts with the theme "No more Ivory buying" in these countries. How about a music recording with lots of music stars discouraging ivory buying! Make it the cool thing to do - no more Ivory! Put it on YouTube. Make it your ringtone! Let's come up with creative ways to sway these poachers. Social networking can do wonders.
I myself believe animals, all animals are creation, to share the world (soil/water sources, air and all). Human beings are the worst enemy of animals and animal life. Humans should stop hunt, hurt, kill, pouch any animals including these elephants.
In China, making and trading ivory was banned in 1991. Illegal criminal acts and government supported acts have to be deffirentiated, though. The ambassy claimed:
"The embassy has direct communications with the Kenya Wildlife Services (KWS) on the protection of wildlife and how to contain the smuggling of ivories. "
"The embassy is proud to say that our measures are effective. Up to now, the embassy has not been contacted by the local police or KWS on poaching or smuggling committed by Chinese nationals based in Kenya. "
What i see is: China government holds open, clear attitude about this issue. What I wanted to ask is : what efforts have been done to contact China and what actions /comversations have been carried out? what have come out from those actions?
"the embassy has approached the relevant NGO for further evidence or information in August 2008 when we first read the accusations and the embassy is yet to get them until now. "
I was thinking of how we could stop this horrific killing of elephants and rhinos. I want to know if there was a way to make the tusks not desirable for poaching. Maybe putting the animal to sleep and applying some kind non toxic chemical that would make the ivory not worth money. Just a thought....
Where is the international outrage?
Oh, right, religious objects.
Duh.
Right on.
This topic upsets me so much I almost turned off the show today. I was so glad to hear the Secretary of State has made this a priority. God Bless Hilary Clinton. She has a terrible and exhausting job. We're all so lucky to have her in it. Truly.
The Chinese think nothing of abusing animals of all kinds to satisfy their blood lust, including rhino horn for sexual stimulants (that do not work, BTW) and tigers. They've sent dog pelts labelled as 'fur' and toxic paint on children's toys.
So why are we still in bed with them, borrowing money and buying this crap? It's gotten more expensive to ship manufactured goods, it's time to bring the jobs back to US soil Experiment over - if people don't have jobs the economy cannot be sustained. There's nothing to discuss, it just needs to happen.
It doesn't matter to the Chinese people that the elephants are being slaughtered because the word "animal" in Chinese just means "moving thing". therefor they do not have compassion for animals like we do because it is just a thing.
I was at a CITES meeting in Orlando about 20 years ago when a proposal was made that would have at least partially alleviated this crisis. The idea was to allow local villagers to harvest ivory, meat and hides from elephants culled through a process controlled by biologists. This would have given locals a reason to want to protect the elephants instead of seeing them as a nuisance.
Unfortunately the animal rights activists held firm to a no-trade policy, and this refusal to compromise contributed to the slaughter of elephants.
Wonderful show, enlightening. I've been immersed in this new awareness since the New York Times and National Geographic intense reporting. This program cuts to the heart of the matter and in this hour, anyone who wants to understand the crisis can and will be educated on it. It was somewhat a relief to know that I'm not insane, or, as some like to say, 'finding my passion'. I am as affected by this holocaust as if it were the gas chambers of the Nazi regime. This assaults my heart and soul to the point of my truly not seeing any value in living at all, to be in a world such as this, a world that would tolerate this, let alone a world that finds humans capable of this butchering of the elephant. It ends or I die, I might walk the earth still, but I will be dead inside, and welcome the silence that awaits me too. What is life for if it cannot offer hope and love, especially of our most majestic animal friends. In the meantime, I struggle to share awareness, on facebook http://www.facebook.com/GlobalAnimalAwarenessDay
Perhaps I'll find you there, leave a note if you come.
Thank you for covering this topic Diane. I have been studying it for about one year and have just returned from Africa, where I spent a month interviewing the top conservationists. I must first just address MarkinTucson - you are not correct. It was not as simple as this - and was also was allowed to occur. The culling has always been done in S Africa and the products from the culls are sold. Every time this occurs the increase in poaching is irrefutable and is the main reason we fight an upsurge right now. The one thing all conservationists agree on is the there in no way to sustainably satisfy the Asia market. They will always want more.
In all successful conservation efforts the local people must benefit and do but not from a dead animal, they benefit from a live animal. THat is true conservation. Your statement is just plain false.
Please see the Namanyuk conservancy, the Northern Rangelands trust, LEWA and Thula Thula for starters. Buy books and read The Last Rhino, Daphne Sheldricks book, Ivory Wars by Leakey, Elephant Dreams by Dr Cynthia Moss who has studied elephants in Amboseli longer than any other person alive. and learn. Those so called animal rights people you villify are the reason we still have elephants. Cities is a trade convention and has not taken one step to stop the trade as that is not their charter.
Thank you Diane Rehm!
Dear Diane,
Thank you very much for addressing the huge problem of the elephant ivory trade in your show..
We the animal conservation NGO's have several approaches to expose this trade in order to gain enforcement support from the governments involved in this trade.
In this case, my NGO: Campaigns Against the Cruelty to Animals, investigated the internet trade of elephant ivory in Latin America in a formal way, and we found an important amount of elephant ivory in Latin America, in the form of Catholic religious carvings that came from the Philippines, which was a surprise to our investigative team. To view this report click here: http://www.catcahelpanimals.org/20.html
Currently we have a mega project investigating the e-trade of elephant ivory in Africa and Asia.
Unfortunatelly, elephant ivory is everywhere, but the huge demand in Asia is devastating the African elephant populations.
Thanks once more for having this issue discussed here, as an education of the general public is very important.
All the best,
Ericka Ceballos
President
Campaigns Against the Cruelty to Animals (CATCA)
www.catcahelpanimals.org Canada
Animal Conservation and Welfare Foundation (ACWF)
www.ACWFeu.org Europe