The Dangers Of Hazing And What's Being Done About It
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-09-20/dangers-hazing-and-whats-being-done-about-it
For the past four decades, at least one student a year has died as a result of hazing on U.S. college campuses. Last year hazing claimed the lives of two young people, one at Cornell University and another at Florida A&M. At least 44 states have laws designed to curb harmful rites of induction into fraternities, sororities, marching bands and other campus groups. But those who break the laws are rarely prosecuted. Some anti-hazing advocates call for ridding campuses of the Greek societies that often have a long tradition of initiation rites that sometimes turn dangerous. Others argue these groups and clubs do more good than harm. Guest host Steve Roberts talks with a panel of experts about efforts to stop hazing.
Guests
Hank Nuwer
associate professor of journalism at Franklin College and author of several books on hazing, including "Wrongs of Passage: Fraternities, Sororities, Hazing, and Binge-Drinking."
Susan Lipkins
psychologist who specializes in conflict and violence in high school and college, and author of "Preventing Hazing: How Parents, Teachers and Coaches Can Stop the Violence, Harassment and Humiliation."
Sara Lipka
senior editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education.
Dr. David Skorton
president of Cornell University. As a physician, he treated teenagers and young adults with heart disease.
Comments
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Sick sick sick
WHAT EXACTLY IS HAZING? DO WOMEN ENGAGE IN HAZING?
Is the whole message suck up, roll over, never stand up, just except this is the way it is. Brutal
What do psychologist say about the aberrant sexual component to hazing?
I was part of an amazing organization when I was in college at SUNY Geneseo in Rochester, NY called the Royal Lady Knights (RLK). This organization was very similar to a sorority in that we were a strongly-bonded group of women who participated in service and social activities both on and off campus. But RLK considered itself "non-greek" to distinguish it from the sororities on campus who participated in humiliating hazing on a regular basis. For us, our new members were loved and welcomed - there was no "black-balling", and there were NEVER any humiliating, demeaning or dangerous activities for our new members. Many years later, I am still very proud to call myself a member of RLK and I believe our organization (and others like us) are proof that hazing is not needed to create a strong and long-lasting bond among group members. I am sure there are "greek" organizations that feel the same as RLK and I encourage them all to speak out against this horrible practice.
Sometimes it's used to weed out certain candidates who are perceived as "not fully dedicated" to the organization, sometimes it's simply a matter of passing on a tradition (no matter how senseless) to ensure all members gain access via equal standards.
Scorsese put a movie out called Goodfelleas that was not about hazing but it does an excellent job of illustrating exactly how and why people allow themselves to be put in dangerous situations for the satisfaction of becoming part of an exclusive club. That 'pat on the back' and 'sense of belonging' is priceless.
It will be hard to completely eradicate hazing. No school official or administration can watch over a group of pledgees or freshman class 24/7. Just not possible.
"How many kids will have to die and how many will have to bear lifetime scars as a result of bullying?" is the usual question found in one report about school bullying after another. Much to my regret, I believe the answer is that this will never end because school bullies embody a psychological type and mentality that is very much valued in American society. It is from this group that college fraternity and sorority members are recruited and later the generals and captains of industry, the military, the big business and right-wing politics. These jobs require aggressiveness, ruthlessness, and the ability to lie in a big way - traits not commonly found in your shy, retiring, introspective, or artistic types. With approximately one half of Americans showing either bullying tendencies or tacit support for bullies, as reflected in their voting patterns, it is easier to understand why schools won't take strong proactive action to prevent it but will rather wait until the inevitable tragedy happens and then react in a milquetoast way, feigning ignorance of what routinely goes on on their campuses.
What rite of passage can be gained by being humiliated, hurt, or killed? Is it not going to college and belonging to a an organization that ones wants to belong to not enough? Steve Roberts where do you get your value system? If someone hurts my child/any child they will be held totally responsible! Alumni should be help accountable too!
I attended a Major University that prohibited fraternities. The Dorms became like frats, and there was no hazing.
Can't speak of the Varsity teams nor the bands.
I don't feel my life is less because I never belonged to a frat.
This practice amounts to "I'll do anything to be friends with people who are mean to me, and are willing to risk my safety, health and life." - yes this is sick.
Then there is the maintenance of test files with test answers to give frat brothers and sisters an edge on the next test. Surely not a plus for the scholastic system.
As a parent, I would choose the "no hazing" university every time.
Fraternities and Sororities are so cheesy and superflous. My wife was almost sexually assaulted at a "Frat" party back in college. We should get rid of these vestigial social collectives.
I'm listening to your conversation online and I think it's very important. As a 15 year higher education professional and a member of an NPHC Black Greek organization (Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority), I am well aware of all of the issues surrounding hazing.
My concern with this discussion is that you led off the discussion with a focus on the FAMU hazing incident and have the FAMU band prominently featured on your cover story page for this topic yet, have only referred to it only a couple of times. You don't seem to have representation from any Black Greek organizations on your panel today nor are you addressing the Black Greek perspective. I want to make sure that the FAMU incident doesn't become the definitive representation of what it means to 1) join a Black student organization (whether it's Greek, the band, etc.) or 2) what it means to attend an HBCU.
Otherwise, great conversation.
Why are you folks avoiding the sexually aberrant behavior that has gone on with hazing? When will your guest address? What do psychologist say about this component of hazing?
I disagree with Dr. Skorton. In spite of his not being a Greek participant, I believe he said that the networking was a necessary part of future success. Is he saying those of us who spent the appropriate time studying for our careers, rather than partying were at a disadvantage to be successful. I heartily disagree. We others have many examples of achieving success because of our education and being recognized in our selected fields for our capabilities, not our networking. Please comment.
As a Fraternity Man myself, there is bonding element that the panel, I believe, just doesn't understand. My Fraternity, Alpha Tau Omega Fraternity (ATO) has dealt with this hazing issue head on. There are ways that you can get the benefits of hazing, which believe it or not are there, but separate from these very dangerous practices (beating, binge drinking, etc.) There are team building programs similar to offices, military, and other organizations to create quick and long lasting bonds. ATO's do not haze, but challenge young men in their individual chapters to come up with creative and productive ways to make this bond. ATO is also the first Fraternity to turn “hell week” into the national “help week” Greek Life is very important on college campuses, but might not be for everyone. This seems to be an attack on the Greek System that is uncalled for, but safety of all students and members is necessary.
Pledging as we "know it" doesn't work anymore, because the way campus life is, thanks in part to Greek Societies, would be the reason why the "push back" was not there. In order for the Greek System to continue, all Fraternities, Sororities, and Athletic Teams need to embrace reform of pledging. However, this attack on Greek Life is not the answer! I would also like to state there is a big difference between Greek Organizations and Athletic programs as well. Pledging does not breed hazing, but it is the thread that links current and former members of a Greek Organization or teams!
It seems like all of your guests are blaming Greek Organizations for hazing, and that is just not right! The philanthropic, campus involvement and community involvement done by Greek Organizations is very important and would be shame if it was taken away!
Daniel
I am a current undergraduate brother of Sigma Alpha Epsilon. I was not hazed nor do I tolerate hazing, of any variety, in my chapter. I make sure that all new members that we admit have my phone number and that they know they can contact me at anytime if they feel that they are being hazed. I will personally mail our charter back to our national office in Evanston, IL if my chapter begins hazing our new members.
I am terribly saddened by the number of hazing related casualties in all applications. I can tell you that for Sigma Alpha Epsilon, the institution of hazing is entirely inconsistent with the goal of the organization. Unfortunately, there are chapters of my organization that embrace hazing. I do not consider them my brothers nor do not think they should have a charter.
I just want to clarify that, as a current member of one of the biggest fraternities in the country, I know that hazing does not build brotherhood or unity. Not all members of Greek life participate or tolerate hazing. Unfortunately, a few bad apples do spoil the whole bunch and I hope that the institution of hazing will be a bad memory in future generations.
The basic premise of a pecking order seems to be the core of the problem; add to this the youthfulness of participants, and frequently the same-sex nature of the group, and there's a recipe for trouble. Why not approach college years as a time to develop oneself, not to join a group which expects you to conform to groupthink?
Two thoughts:
* When you get right down to it, just what's the difference between hazing and bullying?
* The fellow who called in to support hazing saying that it was his best semester at college (4.0 average) said that when the stopped/cut back on hazing discipline in the fraternity fell apart. Therefore, he supports hazing. Seems to me that if discipline fell apart it suggest pretty poor leadership at the fraternity. If you have to bully people to get them to obey or follow leaders, the leaders are pretty lousy.
Goran Satler wrote:
""How many kids will have to die and how many will have to bear lifetime scars as a result of bullying?" is the usual question found in one report about school bullying after another. Much to my regret, I believe the answer is that this will never end because school bullies embody a psychological type and mentality that is very much valued in American society"
The bottom line is, you can't put old heads on young shoulders. 'Twas ever thus, 'twill ever be. As the father of two young men, one in college, one on the way, I can tell you in the ages of 15 to (at least) 22, you can't tell kids much. Oh you can tell them, but there's a sort of deafness that has set in. Not only do they not hear and respond positively to what you say, in many instances it makes them want to do the opposite. It's the old story about the kid who, at 17 thought his parents were idiots but he was amazed by the time he turned 22 how much they had learned in that short time!
If you want to end hazing, you have to make it illegal with strong punishment. Just telling kids that it's dangerous and not to do it is never going to change anything.
Normally there are a diversity of voices on a Diane Rehm panel. This was just one giant hate fest towards Greek organizations. What about the military? What about the workplace? What about families? What about internships? As an older brother, I know I "hazed" my sisters. Fathers typically "haze" sons. LOTS of mothers "haze" their daughters. Having young people who want to work at your company work for no wage, doing menial work and running errands has been broadly accepted but I didn't hear the lady from the Chronicle of Higher Education discuss this practice as "hazing". It's a normal "rite of passage" when it comes to getting a job but when it comes to joining a social club, then it must be taboo? Give me a break.
You are correct Chad, it was a bash Greeks panel and always has been a bash Greeks conversation. People seem to forget that hazing, and not good hazing is practiced in everyday life in all levels of society. Well put!
I am a Cornell grad and my son went to Cornell. Cornell hazing has been going on for long time. Cornell knew about it and did not do enough to stop it. Only the death of a student forced appropriate action. There are city and state laws against it. The problem is inability to monitor and enforce laws and regulations. lack of monitoring and enforcement.
What about the hazing that takes place in our military academies?
I am a member of Sigma Sigma Sigma, a National Panhellenic sorority, which has zero tolerance for hazing. We are not allowed to own paddles. Our new members are not pledges, they do not carry pledge books, they are not treated differently. We are all sisters who's mission it is to establish among our members a perpetual bond of friendship, to develop in them strong womanly character, and to impress upon them high standards of conduct.
We are a month and a half away from a presidential election and these are the kinds of shows you are doing? Pathetic.
After listening to some of your radio broadcast today, unless I missed something, no one on the panel seemed outraged by hazing to the extent that it is considered aberant behavior.
To me hazing is sick. It's in the same category as bullying and harassment. There is always a victim in hazing, despite the apparent rewards to some.
If college students don't know how to bond with one another without demeaning each other with hazing, I can't imagine what is going on inside them.
People bond with conversation, walks, movies, singing, sports and expressing their feelings in an open way.
It would have been nice if the panel addressed the initiatives that Greek organizations have taken to end hazing within their organizations and the wider greek system.
http://www.zetataualpha.org/cms400min/Template4SF.aspx?id=3186&tlmid=20
While this page shows the FAMU band, the conversation has focused mainly on fraternities and sororities. I think the FAMU band incident illustrates how pervasive hazing/bullying is in our society. It is not limited to the Greek system and acknowledging that is the first step in combating this problem.
Hazing should be illegal; a felony. Anyone participating in hazing, i.e., being present and not reporting it, should be considered a participant and convicted as a felony. We don't need college students to think that it is okay to participate and witness a crime. To cover up and/or lie about it is a felony. Bullying should be a felony. I taught two-year-olds not to touch. No fight; no arguing, because they couldn't touch. It's so simple. Fraternities and sororities, who participate in hazing, should be banned permenently from the college or university. We must take a strong stand and send a clear message. Zero tolerance policy.
One need look no further than Robert Cialdini's book, "Influence" to understand the psychological forces behind hazing.
"...person who go through a great deal of trouble or pain to attain something tend to value it more highly than persons who attain the same thing with minimum effort." (78)
"The more electric shock a woman received as part of the initiation ceremony, the more she later persuaded herself that her new group and its activities were interesting, intelligent, and desirable." (78)
"Indeed, one study of 54 tribal cultures found that those with the most dramatic and stringent initiation ceremonies were those with the greatest group solidarity (Young, 1965)." (78-79)