Culture Clash Over Free Speech
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-09-18/culture-clash-over-free-speech
Protests against an American-made online video mocking the Prophet Muhammad have sparked discussions about free speech. Guest host Steve Roberts and his guests discuss clashing cultural norms and efforts to define and regulate hate speech across the globe.
Guests
Zeynep Tufekci
assistant professor of the School of Information at the University of North Carolina and visiting scholar at Princeton University’s Center for Information Technology Policy at the Woodrow Wilson School.
Salman Rushdie
Booker Prize-winning author of 11 novels, including "Midnight's Children" and "The Satanic Verses." His memoir is titled, "Joseph Anton: A Memoir by Salman Rushdie."
Hisham Melhem
Washington bureau chief for Al-Arabiya News Channel.
Rebecca MacKinnon
senior fellow at New America Foundation. Her work focuses on the intersection of the Internet, human rights and foreign policy.
Comments
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Once upon a time we had the religious crime of 'Heresy'. This is the terrible crime of speaking out against the church.The church could come in and execute you,and confiscate your property. When T-Party/Republicans continue to champion the CHURCH`S right of free speech,at the expense of everybody else,it sends chills up my spine.
Mitt Romney and the T-Party/Republicans endorse the hate message of the movie "Innocence of Islam". Mitt Romney and the T-Party/Republicans tell us WE have NO right of free speech to refute their hate message.
Mitt Romney and the T-Party/Republicans endorse the Catholic Bishop`s position that denies women their right to basic health care.The Mitt Romney T-Party/Republican position says the churches rights TRUMPS women`s rights.
The "offensiveness" of the video should not be at issue but rather the right to MAKE it. Freedom of Religion also means Freedom FROM Religion. Blasphemy laws do not belong in a civilized society. These people need to learn that you cannot take a life over a perceived offense. We cannot, in good conscience, criticize China or Russia for alleged "human rights abuses" when we give foreign aid to countries like this. Cultures who believe in "honor killings." Societies who treat their women like property.
I've actually watched the video and I haven't seen acting that bad since I caught a glimpse of "Zombie Strippers" on Showtime. It is one of the most pathetic, amateurish, cartoonish pieces of video I have ever seen. I've seen better
acting in porn. I wouldn't even call it a "film." Furthermore, if you are offended by this or feel like you or your culture or religion have some how been "disrespected" by this, you are a BIGGER IDIOT than the people who made this piece of crap.
Please inform me where Mitt Romney and/or any Tea Party Representative or Republican has "endorsed" the "hate message" of the PARODY "Innocence of Islam". You argument seems as though you are justifying the actions of the TERRORISTS (they may claim to be Islamic, but they aren't practicing the tennants of the religion they claim) that have injured and killed American's at various Embassies.
Mitt Romney and the T-Party/Republicans only have 2 choices.
1. Condemn and denounce the bigoted "Islamaphobia"of their Conservative extremists.
2. Send out pundits like Liz Cheney and Peter King who attacked Obama and Islam.
Mitt Romney and the T-Party/Republicans chose option 2. Some may not understand the message #2 sends .I can`t help you.
In other words, you cannot provide anything to actually substantiate your claims, so you will continue with an obvious fallacious argument to perpetuate your own hypocracy. Here, however, let me refute your attempt at making a point:
Untrue. Mitt Romney can do as he has done and denounce the film as can be seen here: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-romney-denounces-antimuslim-f...
Instead of being a hypocrite, how about actually educating yourself on the topic.
ruff82 wrote: "In other words, you cannot provide anything to actually substantiate your claims"
Clifford is the leading liberal intellectual on these comment boards, his frequent topical insights are representative of the best to be offered here by the left. Rest assured his understanding and interpretation of the Constitution perfectly mirrors that of the Obama administration. When I read Clifford's posts I immediately know the right is completely outmatched by mental giants like Clifford on the left, or maybe not?
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There was some guy here (Van from somewhere) accusing conservatives of being "trolls", hey Van this is a troll! Someone who just makes stuff up to piss people off.
HERE IS THE ESSENTIAL QUESTION MUSLIMS NEED TO ANSWER:
What is it about Islam that TENDS to incite so many of its followers to be MURDEROUS when insulted, ridiculed or maligned?
Christians get insulted, etc. like that -- in fact, they even get persecuted and murdered just for BEING Christian in some Muslim nations!! -- but, generally speaking, Christians don't riot and murder in revenge.
Could it be that, at its essence, Christianity is all about love and forgiveness?
Could it be that the Koran has so many hateful and militant passages in it which many Muslims take as the literal truth (and often Muslims are brainwashed within their madrasses from young on to revere the Koran)?
There must be SOME reason for the disparity in reactions between these two "Great World Religions".....
Not hard to imagine that the protest over this hateful film could have to do with the support the U.S. provided for dictators in the region for decades and this and this horrific film provided an outlet for those pent up feelings toward the U.S.
Also many are writing about the protest providing cover for Al Qeada to attack the U.S. consulate. Did Ambassador Stevens work with former Al Qeada members in the over throw of Qaddafi?
Also Dr. Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel.com) has written about thousands of documents, computers taken from the U.S. consulate in Libya and other U.S. embassies. She has written that many believe that these documents stolen had to do with Libyans who have been working with the U.S. and oil contracts. Can your guest discuss this?
I always thought that freedom of speech was our right up until the point where it caused harm. Like yelling fire in a movie theater. What has changed? Was I wrong all along?
I really object to the characterization of the movie as "American-made," which was a part of the introduction to this program--and which has been used quite often in the last few days on NPR. The connotation is that America itself made this movie. No, a producer made this movie, apparently under false pretenses, according to one of the actors in it. Therefore, your show and NPR falsely buys into the idea that America is exporting this rubbish. No, some Americans may be doing that, but America isn't. Could you please say/write movie made by _____________ or a movie made in America by _____________ rather than "American-made"? Thank you.
Steve great point. Intentionally inciting riots. Wish they would focus more on how this film was like a pressure valve creating an avenue for decades long hatred for the U.S. support for dictators in the region. Why is anyone surprised about the anger
I understand perfectly the rage at blasphemy against Mohammed. I feel the same when I hear people who really ought to know better suggest maybe we ought to curtail some knucklehead’s freedom to make a crummy movie in his basement, comparing such a movie to “shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded movie theater.”
So what are we to do about such a complex and fraught issue as different cultures’ idea of “appropriate free speech?” How can we negotiate different “norms” of what are acceptable boundaries on speech?
Let’s not lose sight of the obvious, here. “Shoot all the film you want, and none of the people” really is a BETTER norm than “this or that is off-limits.” Not because it’s American, or Western. It’s the better guideline for EVERYONE.
It’s just not that complicated.
As I understand it, much of the Muslim world do not receive a full secondary education, and most school's cirriculum, the lion's share, is narrowly focused on religion and philosophy. They do not receive a broad spectrum education if they receive much education at all. However there are highly educated people in the Muslim world, just that the masses' education is limited. I suspect this contributes to such strong reactions as we've experienced this past week.
Would your guest please address the Dept of Justice investigating the hateful film and who produced and funded. At Islamophobe Pamela Geller's website Atlas Shrugged she has a post from the spring of this year where she talks about the need for a film about Muhammad and the willingness to help fund such an inflammatory film. What do your guest know about the funding of this horrific film?
please discuss newsweeks new inflammatory cover
It seems that we here in the US are always hearing about the 'moderate Islamic' faction, but not seeing much of it in practice. There is also a lot discussion about how Americans should be sensitive to Islamic tradition, but little as to the responsibility of the Muslim culture to abide by the basic rules of civilized behavior.
John Brooks
Another offensively shallow and boring show about the good and bad others and the imposing weight of moral decency. Rampant rioting is, above all, pleasure for the rioters. It is a yearning that lies dormant in most of us. It is exciting, exhilarating, rewarding in an intensity not found in most human activity. It only happens as a broad expression in those societies that implicitly allow, support, or encourage it. Once the number of rioters exceed a few hundred in more than a few locations, rioting becomes a statement of political power. A billion "horrified and apologetic practitioners" only provide cover for their 10,000 soldiers using torches and guns. If they really opposed the violence, they would make it impossible.
Ms. MacKinnon:
Arguably the most insulting movie ever made (for Christians) was The Last Temptation of Christ.
There was widespread protests and boycotts, and official denunciation from the Church.
I don't recall fires been set, RPGs been hurled nor deaths attributed to said protests.
The main problem with the clash of western and muslim cultures is the secularist dismiss the concerns of conservatives as being mere prejudice. The mainstream Protestant populace present at America's founding adhere to a theological understanding that entails that religious works do not endear you to God. They understood that all have equal access to the Creator and all are equally imperfect (etc). These fundamental understanding inspired Abolition; pioneered the progressive movement among new east european immigrants during the 19th century; and finally fueled the civil rights movement.
Religious works based religions tend to foster non-democratic and non-progressive sentiments. for example, hinduism's acceptance of social status based on pass life's behavior is anti-progressism.
Islam's Koran's oppresses women in this life and in heaven . . . Islam hold non-muslims as second class citizens. We don't see the negative manifestations in the west while muslims are a minority; however, when their numbers increase, they will increasingly demand the adherence to their laws, which contrast our progressive liberties
To quote Salman Rushdie: No one has the right to NOT be offended
why did the united states media refer to this video as ' a video made by the United states, and " a video made in the United States" when describing the video,,, instead of a 'video made by someone in the United States".
calling the video U.S. made, was like promoting that it was crafted here and sanctioned heree by the the gov or and the people of the united states. that was just plain dumb and sends a confusing message to the middle east who dont understand our freedom of speech anyway!
it was only after a few days that it was mentioned that someone in california made this video with out anything to do with the gov or the people.
I would not necessarily censor this piece of crap "film" except that pornography is censored regularly due to its offensiveness. I don't know why this idiocy couldn't be censored on the same basis. In any case, though, this thing was done in order to incite violence in countries with beliefs in Islam and I sincerely think this was done to try to manufacture an incident to cause problems for the President. On another issue, I don't think the maker of this "film" is an American citizen. He's on parole for a felony and apparently in violation of his parole conditions. Why don't we just deport this moron?
I am very impressed by the high level of understanding and explanation of the events discussed by the guest speekers on today's Diane Rehm Show. I do have a background in American business and geopolitics and find, particularly Mr. Melhem's views, refreshingly well informed and well balanced. I am pleased that I turned the radio on and heard all the guests bringing up logical, clear, and easy-to-understand reasons for the actions of all the actors involved in the film fiasco. Thank you to all the speakers for providing an enlightening and thought-provoking hour.
How will Muslims deal with greater, worldwide technology when they are offended by a you tube video. As technology increases each Muslim country will have to censor their citizens internet content. This will have an impact on how they participate in the world.
Looks to me the Obama administration has successfully diverted attention from a failed foreign policy onto a video that has nothing to do with the rioting and everything to do with the exposing of the media created false narrative of the "Arab spring". The Arab spring was a revolt, the beginning of something no one fully understood.
As an athiest I can only sit back in awe at the insanity of these events. It was bad enough going to war for economic reasons, now it seems that we go to war to fight ghosts. My only hope is that the already marginalized zealots on both sides of the ocean will continue to horrify the rest of the flock to the point that the majority of people will find freedom from religious dogma. Religion can be a good thing AS LONG AS YOU DON"T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY!!
So true. And if we were caught unawares, it is even scarier.
Bo
You show your complete ignorance of history. Christians committed genocide against Native Americans in two continents and enslaved African Americans for centuries. Where was the essence of love and forgiveness then?
If you want more recent evidence - how about the killing of millions of Vietnamese over a war that had nothing to do w/US security or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in a war with no basis. At the time, 70 percent of Americans believed that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 which is and was totally unfounded. Talk about conspiracy theories.
Excellent question asked on the show today --
If the US believes so strongly in free speech: Why is Al Jazeera English effectively banned from most of the country?