Friday News Roundup - International
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-09-14/friday-news-roundup-international
The United States and Libya agreed to cooperate to find out who was responsible for the deadly attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi. Protests over an American-made video mocking Islam spread to Yemen. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called on the U.S. to draw clearer "red lines" for a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. And in China, speculation grew over the absence of Vice President and expected next President Xi Jinping. Thom Shanker of The New York Times, Courtney Kube of NBC News and Jonathan Landay of McClatchy Newspapers.
Guests
Thom Shanker
Pentagon correspondent for The New York Times and co-author of "Counterstrike: The Untold Story of America's Secret Campaign Against Al Qaeda."
Courtney Kube
national security producer for NBC News.
Jonathan Landay
senior national security and intelligence correspondent for McClatchy Newspapers.
Comments
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The attack on the United States' citizens and the ambassador is a depressing and crystal clear reminder of the dangers involved representing our country around the world. I was extremely frustrated by Mitt Romney's initial response. People had died in the service of the United States. That is not the time to politicize their death. I have voted for Republicans most of my adult life including in 2008, but this is another misstep that has me seriously considering voting for President Obama.
Chris in Louisville, Kentucky
I am outraged that an organization with $5 million? to financed a bad movie has such influence on US Policy and the Presidential election. The anniversary of 9/11, the fact that Netanyahu chose to pick a fight with Obama then, and for a movie made months prior would come to the attention of a group with guns that day may be a coincidence. Or not. If you spent $5 million, would you have a plan how to use it? We may never know if this was a Mossad operation unless someone inside writes a book as Victor Ostrovsky did in "The Other Side of Deception" detailing how the Mossad manipulated President Reagan into attacking Lybia. The FBI should follow the money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_Deception
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=160927862
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/13/161111082/was-the-america...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044401750457764568105749826...
I am no internet genius; I do not even know how to post something on You Tube, but what I am wondering is this: What is to prevent ANY anonymous person from making a hateful, insulting video and posting it online anonymously just to cause trouble?
It seems to me none of us should react to these postings as "authentic" in any way because we really have no idea of who posted or what their intentions were, do we? Couldn't any crazy person just post whatever they wanted, then sit back and watch the sparks fly?
Seems to me, believing none of what you hear and half of what you see applies in spades in these situations.
Amy wrote: "It seems to me none of us should react to these postings as "authentic" in any way because we really have no idea of who posted or what their intentions were, do we? Couldn't any crazy person just post whatever they wanted, then sit back and watch the sparks fly?'
The extremist Muslims which seems to be in the neighborhood of about 35% of the middle-eastern population are looking for excuses to riot and kill, we have got to get past this immature notion that a video, movie or cartoon drawings are the problem. The problem is in their heads!
Why have I seen so little about the Libyans who rallied in support of Chris Stevens and the US? This should be a huge story. I am forced to assume that the rally was so small that the major news organizations didn't bother. But I am so curious to know the size of the rally, who these people are, and to hear from some of them directly.
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/2104-libyan-protestors-say-sorry-to-am...
Ellis Baggs
Unfortunately this "film" is being used as an excuse to vent a human weakness known as hate. It is just too hard for some to follow true spiritual dictates.
Concerning the tragic assassination of the US Ambassador and three others, I believe that current thinking is that it was planned in advance as retaliation for the deaths of terrorists in Yemen, and coincidently coincided with the the film protests. One of the terrorists killed was Libyan. The connection between the assassination and the film may not have been as strong as originally suspected.
Even Joe Klein has made strong statements about Prime Minister Netanyahu's demands on the U.S. to back Israel up no matter what they do in regard to the threats they allegedly feel from Iran. Can your guest talk about how the tide seems to be shifting in the MSM and elsewhere about supporting Israel no matter what they do.
Over at Informed comment Professor Juan Cole has stated that the attacks on the U.S. embassy in Benghazi were conducted by one of the "cells of the Ansar-al Shariah extremist" On many other heavily researched blog much is being said about the protest over that trashy video full of hate and bigotry was used as cover for the attack on the U.S. embassy in Benghazi.
Can your guest also discuss the role that Ambassador played in the support of the Libyan rebels who allegedly had former Al Qeada members involved. I have read he took a very active physical role in the overthrow of Qaddafi.
Also much being said that his killing was in retribution for the U.S.drone strike and killing of Al Libi
First, haven't we been discovering that the deadly attack on consulate was planned and most likely separate from the protests? Secondly, rather than a sign of our "weakness" as implied by Romney, couldn't the anti-American uprising be the result of our perceived attempts to impose our beliefs on other cultures, and that despicable movie just the fuel to the flame?
I don't see how Obama could be blamed for following up on fights begun by the previous administration.
Thanks, Kathy in Dallas
Evidence is growing that the youtube video was a crudely over-dubbed attempt to create anti-Islamic provocation.
Apparently the actors thought -- based on the script -- that they were working on a low-budget action or biblical film set in Egypt circa ~2000 years ago, long before Mohammed lived. The implication being someone got hold of a trailer or pieces of the film, and then manipulated this into the 'anti-Islam film' at issue.
Editing video by dubbing different audio or subtitles is simple. So is posting to youtiube.
NPR has a good blog on this:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/13/161062375/director-of-ant...
also see Jerusalem Post:
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=284877
Before this goes much further it would be helpful to know who really created this video, and posted it to youtube. We keep hearing it is 'US produced'. Maybe it originated in our borders, but perhaps not by US nationals. NSA and FBI have ways of tracing origins of these things.
De oppresso liber
As food prices rise trouble for US corporate interests (Empire) in resource states will get worse. Global famine has resulted from grain crop failures like our corn drought. Those wanting Peace must focus on solving Hunger.
And Diane wonders how Beggars infiltrate the Banquet???????????
(Our nitwit Fundamentalists oppose birth control so aren't we harboring dangerous radicals? This is a hungry and thirsty planet.)
Pundits warn us not to "go into the weeds" but they're out in the brush gathering poison ivy. Only the herbs that support Oligarch delusions will do and the rest should be mowed, they assume. Genetic diversity in opinion making suffers. Remember: the interests of the Elite are not those of the public.
I work each day developing garden plots. Yes, I'm plotting.
Even sadder than the acts that are taking place at our embassy's in the Arab world is the obviously intimidated commentators viewing the events. Rather that take on this minority who are doing this terrible thing they want to take down the film maker and try to put him in jail or at least silence him. When did we become a nation who will restrain our rights to insure a radical group is not insulted? Why do we apologize for these people? Do we keep quiet about the terrible actions against women and children by the Islamist groups? It might upset them. Do we turn a blind eye to the killing of entire families and towns by these groups because they are not of the correct tribe? this could cause them to feel awful.
I am very saddened by Diane's stance on this and it shows very little leadership.
I would like to hear your thoughts on two issues: In this country we have become very aware and much more responsive to bullying by the younger generations and have declared a zero tolerance for hateful speech directed towards their peers. Freedom of speech is an important protection but we as adults seem to be in such conflict of our expectations of the behavior we expect from our children. On the matter of Israel, I know there are those who have made public statements in great opposition to it's existence, but actions seem to indicate quite strongly that there are many who are systematically going about the business of eliminating the existence of Palestine.
I find it interesting that the person who created this film was an immigrant from Egypt.
Bradley Manning is in prison, waiting trial, and his action didn't really hurt anyone. Any chance that Nakoula and Terry Jones can be prosecuted for hate crimes?
We have laws against antiSemitism. Perhaps we need some laws forbidding hate speech against Muslims.
I wonder if the callers who say they can't understand how (part of) the Muslim world has reacted and denounce their violence are working themselves up to justifying a violent response by the U.S. If they are, this would be more of the same...which is a big part of why we find ourselves in this situation to begin with.
I appreciate the tendency of your guests to be polite at all costs. However, this tendency does at times keep them from just saying what is happening. Call it the PC (Political Correctness) factor or whatever, we the listeners are not necessarily beholden to this constraint, so I will say what they seem not to be able to.
Democracy is an advanced form of government that REQUIRES an educated and informed populace to maintain responsibly. The people who are perpetrating these attacks on American Embassies are obviously not these things. NPR has reported many times already that most of the people asked in these demonstrations haven't even bothered to watch the video, but instead are willing to accept at face value the word of their religious leaders and hurt people just for the sake of making themselves feel better. This is so obviously a symptom of the juvenile nature of fundamentalism that it cannot be ignored.
Never the less, the rule of law remains in effect REGARDLESS of whether the ignorant understand it or not. These people that are responsible must be held responsible under the universally accepted laws of humanity. To harm an individual for any reason beyond (arguably so) self-defense is animal and base.
Education broadly is the answer to this problem. This will take time and lots of innocent people will die in the process. In a generation, once these fundamentalists have expired, their children will look back with shame just as we look back at our parents and grandparents ignorant violence with shame. This is the curse and blessing of progress, but is a necessary part of becoming a Civilized, Modern culture.
Fundamentalism is the enemy of liberty, and must be discouraged in all of its forms.
Why wouldn't Iran prepare for an invasion or attack based on suspicion of WMD? Are they wrong for reasoning America & or their allies went into Iraq without any proof, they will come to their country regardless if they have the bomb or not?
Are there no consequences for such a travesty?
Yes, we do have freedom of speech in this country. However, I feel that in view of the Muslim culture's feelings about the Prophet Mohammed, releasing a film like this is on a par with yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Those who did so knew what was going to happen. They should be held responsible--if we could find out who they are.
Talk about the media in other countries spreading misinformation - well, even NPR hardly does better. I have heard over the past few days that, first, the maker of the video was an Israeli-American. Now on the DR Show, I heard it was a coptic Christian. Each time, it was stated as fact. When are we going to learn that we should NOT BELIEVE what the media tells us, much less act on it as fact!
We here in America take the burning of our flag very seriously, but you will never see mass demonstrations at the embassies of Middle Eastern nations, burning their ambassadors and trashing their national symbols. This difference of civility is the litmus test of advancement. Thus far these fledgling democracies have failed the test. If it is true that the majority of the citizens of these nations do not support this behavior, then they should be as determined as I am to speak out and call for their actions to be punished as severely as possible. This has been done here in the Case of Terry Jones and his reactionary ilk of Christian Fundamentalists. Where is the corollary of this in the middle east?
I find the timing of this more than a little suspicious. I'd like to know who funded the making of this inflammatory film, Karl Rove perhaps, it sounds like something he would mastermind. Was this film made for the purpose of provoking an incident that would get Americans killed during an election season? Was this incident provoked to try to give Mitt Romney something to say to make it sound as if he actually knew anything about foreign policy and foreign relations?From what I gather no one has ever heard of this film's make, Joe Ambicile? Imbecile is more like it. Sounds like one of these shadowy guys like the kind of Super Pacs that are laundering money into the Romney campaign that only exist as long as the election season then disappear without anyone knowing who they are.
I would like to comment in reference to the protest over the American-made video mocking Islam. Along with our rights and freedoms, we need to remember that we also have responsibilities. (We have the right to make the movie, but was it a responsible choice?) I have 2 boys; when they get into an argument, it seems as if I'm always saying, "what did you do to encourage your brother to get mad a you?" then I go back to the other one & say "you should not have reacted the way you did." I see some similarities here; let's remember that freedom also requires responsibility.
Although the most recent violence has affected US interests directly, the geography alone suggests that other nations are literally on the front lines too. Europeans and others closer to the middle east surely are more convenient targets - and should require the immediate attention of their own governments. The US should never be in the position of taking all the risks, not to mention the expense, in suppressing violence or opposing those who would develop destructive weapons. Leaders in Europe, the middle east (INcluding Israel), our own Congress, and rabble in the streets should be much more reticent about demanding US military action alone.
Bogus US "allies" sit by silently hoping the violence doesn't turn in their direction. The US has been carrying the water for Saudi Arabia for decades while they do little or nothing to quell ignorance of true US intentions and policies. Where are the pronouncements from Jordan decrying the attacks? Where are the edicts from Turkey or even Iraq?
Where are ANY efforts by the Libyan government or Egypt or any of the African nations the US has helped?
The very least our "allies" could do is try to educate the misguided rabble.
The truth is that they fear their own people.
Our foreign policy needs to be tightened in these areas. The feather placed in the current administrations cap by claiming success with the "Arab Spring" and the killing of Osama Bin Laden is far from secure. There is clearly a discourse between the State Department and the White House - not lost on some of us who read multiple sources. The initial statement issued by Cairo and criticized by Romney was , in fact, removed by the State Department. It was wrong to appease a group of zealots by apologizing for something we have virtually no responsibility for. It was, in their culture a submission of guilt.Those who think these attacks were not a well organized event on the anniversary of 9/11 would be well served to read "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes" (written by a well respected Arab historian)- The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We must be more proactive and demonstrative in a region where historically might makes right. Israel is absolutely correct about a red line - She remembers being attacked in the mid 1960's - the difference now is all about nuclear capability. There would be no ability to respond - period. If Romney is to be chastised for anything, it should be overstating the obvious.
Wonderful to hear the guest propagandists spirited defense of free speech. I'm certain Bradley Manning and Julian Assange were heartened to hear how much we value free speech here in the US. I loved the condescension on display when talking about how those people don't understand how things work here. It could very well be that they understand exactly how things work here, and we are the ones who don't understand. If somebody presents lies that incites other people to commit crimes, that protected speech. When somebody presents the truth about the crimes that our government commits - lock them up and throw away the key. Maybe those people over there have a better idea than we do how things work over there, too. While this film may be the proximate cause of the uprisings, is it not possible that people are getting fed up with the US installing, arming and funding dictators for decades, then when we decide we're done with them, to arm and fund contras, leading to the loss of countless innocent civilians? When they kill a handful of US citizens (on their own soil) possibly in retaliation for this history (history is for losers, winners don't think they have to keep track of it), it's clearly because 35% of them are dangerous extremists, who operate under an irrational and impossible-to-understand belief system. When the US invades a country and kills tens (or hundreds) of thousands, displaces millions, and so on on the basis of nothing but lies - we're doing God's work, or fighting for women's rights, or spreading democracy, or whatever. Who are the irrational extremists?
I would really like to hear President Obama give a speech addressing the international Muslim community about free speech rights in the United States. I think that the birther movement would be a wonderful example. Most Americans at this point consider the birther movement to be ridiculous to put it lightly, and some of us consider it to be absolutely offensive. But this sort of speech is protected and rightly so, because, who is to draw the line between ridiculous, offensive speech and legitimate criticism of the government? This is exactly the sort of freedom that many of these nations experiencing protests have been fighting for. The same analogy can be made for religion. Yes, the claims in this so-called movie are ridiculous and offensive, but Americans have the right to criticize religion. If President Obama wouldn't arrest "birthers" for making up stories about the leader of the United States, then it follows suit that he wouldn't arrest some crazy filmmaker for making up stories about Islam. (Although if the courts find this person guilty of a hate crime I would certainly support that decision, but I don't know enough about the details to make that call myself.) In the United States, if someone says something we don't like, we have the freedom to either ignore the comment or to respond as we see fit with our own words without the fear of being arrested. And that is a beautiful freedom to have.
I remember a time when our deciders used WMD as an excuse to vent a human weakness known as hate. It apparently is just too hard for a vast number of Americans, who supported that crime, to follow true spiritual dictates. We practice the Christian virtues of forgiving - and forgetting - all our trespasses against others. But when some of them rise up and commit far smaller crimes - well that's a different matter. We strain out gnats while swollowing camels, and congratulate ourselves for being so wise and civilized. And spiritual!
But the president will have whistleblowers arrested (and declared guilty before they even go on trial) for telling the truth about US government crimes. I would really NOT like to hear President Obama lecturing the international Muslim community about free speech, and instead announce that the justice department would defend Bradley Manning in the military kangaroo court, and that the US had no further interest in persecuting Julain Assange. Then he could apologize for US war crimes against the Muslim world, offer to pay reparations. After that, perhaps a word or two about about free speech would be in order.
Thank you mattlove 1!
If you don't already, you should read Glenn Greenwald at the Guardian. Today's post is in line with your comment. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/egypt-nbc?commentpag....
It helps relieve the stress produced by the kind of conversations typical of the Friday News Roundup (sorry Diane, it's your guests).