Is Algebra Necessary?
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-08-29/algebra-necessary
Mastering algebra is widely considered a stepping stone to higher mathematics and college readiness. But last month, a political science professor touched off a debate when he challenged the value of algebra in American education. He argued we should remove algebra from high school and college curriculum, citing it is a key reason why kids drop out of school. But critics say the issue is not algebra – it’s how it’s taught. With more effective class instruction, the course can instill critical thinking and reasoning skills needed in everyday life. Diane talks with her guests about math education and why it matters.
Guests
Andrew Hacker
professor of political science at Queens College of New York. He is the co-author of "Higher Education? How Colleges Are Wasting Our Money and Failing Our Kids - And What We Can Do About It."
Ed Nolan
program supervisor of mathematics in Montgomery County.
Jacob Vigdor
professor of public policy and economics at Duke University.
Judy Bolton-Fasman
a writer and parenting columnist.
Comments
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In Elementary school math had always been a challenge for me. It wasn't until I took Algebra in the 8th grade that I began to understand math. I went on to take Calculus and advanced math in college for fun. I believe that Algebra did help me to think about problems in an organized matter. It absolutely enhanced my critical thinking skills and helped me have a more organized mind. Now the Algebra that my 7th and 8th grader children are taking is far more advanced than the one that I took. I agree that Algebra is a crucial subject that everyone needs to take but it does not need to be such an advanced and accelerated subject as is being taught today in the Middle School level. Eliminating a subject just because it is hard is silly. There are many people who have problem with writing essays or memorized historical facts but I think it would be absurd to eliminate these courses because it is hard.
Many students find spelling and grammar to be especially challenging, especially boys. This, by the way is an established fact, not a feeling I've obtained from talking to instructors. Is it unfair to insist that boys learn spelling and grammar in light of the fact that is so much harder for them?
Where do we draw the line?
School is hard - let's push kindergarten back to 8 years old.
I am a parish pastor and an academic scholar (Th.D.).
And I have taught algebra and other mathematics.
I use algebra every day:
I gas my car (mpg).
I plan trips (d=rt, various costs like driving vs flying).
I comparison shop ($/oz numbers are too small for normal people to read).
I sail a boat, compute courses, ocean tides.
I fly a plane ... same thing.
I hunt - all kinds of algabra from balistics to map reading.
I suggst the work of Mager in the 60's - he successfully taught algabra in elementary school! His thesis: we do not teach pre-algabra properly; he had to "unteach" improperly articulated skills.
Algebra was NOT required for high school graduation during the 50s and most of the 60s in the Mid-West--only "basic math" was. And students who chose to take it did NOT need to take it age 14. It was a typical high school freshman course, but in my freshman-year class at least one high school senior was enrolled--and, as it, happened, leading the group.
Why not REQUIRE only basic math for h.s. graduation, ENCOURAGE all students to take algegra (it is quite valuable), and allow students to take it during ANY year in high school? Some students will be more able to handle the abstractions required when they are a little older.
P.S. I'm a retired community college English professor.
Yet more dumbing down of America. My grandmother, in 1900-1904, took German, algebra, etc. -- note my grandMOTHER, and she was living in St Johnsbury Vermont, what you might call a backwater, farming country at the time. She did very well indeed, became a secretary at a grain mill. In the 50's, I took algebra in the SIXTH grade, in Longmeadow MA, and I loved it. In 7 and 8th grade I took it again, and for two years in high school. I went to Wesleyan U. in the '60s, and was an English major. How did algebra help me? Very simple, it was part of a WELL-ROUNDED education, and it helped teach me to think logically and systematically.
We don't need more ignorance in this country, there is more than enough to go around as it is.
I'm mortified to hear this argument. If anything, we need to make Algebra 1 a requirement for all students. This is not terribly advanced math, and it does help build analytical skills, critical thinking skills.
If I went to my parents when I was a kid and said, "It's hard, so I don't want to do it", they would reply that they don't recall telling me that life was going to be easy.
Better teaching methods, better trained teachers, and (in some cases) better parenting will increase completion of high school, community college, etc.
It would be tragic if this country sold our children short and made them less competitive in a global workforce because "math is hard".
Just heard on the radio ... wanted to be an architect and would do drawing and sketching so you didn't need math ... WHAT???
Last semester I took a University Level hydraulics class, my classmates were future pilots and Air Traffic Controllers. They could not do the work. There were algebraic equations but very little algebraic manipulation. The math is what we call "Plug and Run", insert the value and do arithmetic. Cheating was the only way some got through the class.
Forget MASTERING algebra, how about just an UNDERSTANDING of algebra and arithmetic?
I'm mortified to hear this argument. If anything, we need to make Algebra 1 a requirement for all students. This is not terribly advanced math, and it does help build analytical skills, critical thinking skills.
If I went to my parents when I was a kid and said, "It's hard, so I don't want to do it", they would reply that they don't recall telling me that life was going to be easy.
Better teaching methods, better trained teachers, and (in some cases) better parenting will increase completion of high school, community college, etc.
It would be tragic if this country sold our children short and made them less competitive in a global workforce because "math is hard".
I am a recent graduate of the Master's program at American University in International Service. I also have a Bachelors degree. In middle and high school I was never able to pass even elementary algebra, as the 'patterns' your guest speaks of, didn't seem obvious or applicable to my 14-18 year old world. As a college student, I received a waiver to substitute a course in hydrology for the algebra requirement. In spite of totally lacking an algebra background, I maintained a 3.5 GPA and an undergrad, and a 3.90 as a Master's student. This performance indicates that I do not lack critical thinking skills. Far more important for me and most of the people I went to college with, is the ability to wrote well and conduct research. For this purpose one needs the ability to analyze and manipulate data. For that their are computerized statistical packages.
I see my 12 year old son now struggling to deal w/the algebra requirements and I have a hard time making the argument to him that a person who has no interest or inclination to pursue a numbers or hard science carreeer, needs it
I loved algebra in high school, as well as geometry. A few years ago when I was in my late 40's I can remember trying to figure out which cell phone plan would be best for me. I used algebra to figure out the cost per minute based on my past use, the times I used the minutes, and the plans available. When I first wanted to try to figure this out I was overwhelmed thinking about it but then I remembered some basic algebraic equations and had my answers!
I also remember taking math in an evening college class with adult students who were struggling with much of what was being presented by the teacher. When other students who did understand jumped in to explain in a different way those struggling were quick to see additional ways to figure things out. Maybe it is the way we teach math these days!
Terry Wright
I would like to mention that school, and a variety of subjects, is necessary to the growth and preparation of students for life. I was told from the beginning of my school experience by my parents that I would not be good at math because I was a girl. My eyes and brain were gloriously opened in 8th grade by my Algebra teacher. I am so thankful to her. I went on to complete an engineering degree and now work in a technical career where Algebra and other math concepts are used regularly. I saddens me to think a Poly Sci major would question the need to expose students to this subject. We have a technical crisis in the country. We need to emphasize mathematics, not eliminate subjects because they are "hard"! Give me a break.
In the 8th grade in WVa I was put into an Algebra I course, one year ahead of normal, and then I moved to Michigan where I was a year ahead and had to take Geometry in the 9th grade. Then in the 10th grade back to Algebra, but now it was the New Math and the only way I could figure it out was to use my mother's college algebra text book to see each problem from two different approaches. Eventually, I ended up scoring in the 99th percentile on my Math SATs, but strongly feel that the way Algebra is taught is too dependent on the readiness of the child's brain to come up with only one approach.
Remember, Einstein hated algebra; Algebra is where you don't know what something is, so you call it X and pretend that you DO know what it is.
I am a recent graduate of the Master's program at American University in International Service. I also have a Bachelors degree. In middle and high school I was never able to pass even elementary algebra, as the 'patterns' your guest speaks of, didn't seem obvious or applicable to my 14-18 year old world. As a college student, I received a waiver to substitute a course in hydrology for the algebra requirement. In spite of totally lacking an algebra background, I maintained a 3.5 GPA as an undergrad, and a 3.90 as a Master's student. This performance indicates that I do not lack critical thinking skills. Far more important for me and most of the people I went to college with, is the ability to write well and conduct research. For this purpose one needs the ability to analyze and manipulate data. For that there are computerized statistical packages.
I see my 12 year old son now struggling to deal w/the algebra requirements. I have a hard time making the argument to him that a person who has no interest in, or inclination to, pursue a numbers or hard science career needs it.
Here we go again. Yet another way to excuse our country's students from all things that aren't relavent to their day to day lives. Why not just get rid of biology, chemistry, physics, French, Spanish, Latin, Shakespeare, Emerson, etc because, after all, they don't help us "understand the conflict in Syria"........"you should just pay a financial advisor to help you understand your mortgage contract". Why learn how to spell correctly when you can just click "spell check" on Microsoft Word.??? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! Your guest's rationale is just another reason that America's place in the world is becoming more and more irrelevant. Without mastering these mathematic concepts, NASA's Mars rover would have landed on Pluto. GOD HELP OUR COUNTRY if your guest's opinion becomes that of the majority.
Everyone uses Algebra. It's solving for the UNKNOWN.
How much do I tip the waitress?
I've got to paint a room. How many gallons of paint do I need?
I've got to drive to Richmond. The speed limit is 60mph. How long will it take me?
I'm making a dinner for 8 people and this recipe is for 6. How do I change the measurements?
That's all algebra.
I feel that algebra is essential in our modern age. We are all constantly surrounded by computers and other electronic devices, and the skills presented in algebra and even math courses beyond are needed to understand this world we built for ourselves.
1. Math is a seperater. If you can do math, you have a leg up in most professional jobs that people want. From computer programming, Finance, business, engineering, etc. Even psychology and marketing as you need to look at numbers. If you can't do math, you will be stuck doing low end jobs. So more math and even more science please.....
2. Why attack algebra or calculus or any other "harder" math. Why teach anything? You are teaching students to think. You want students to learn how to master hard skills. If you just teach "easy" things, why bother teaching at all. Why not spend the next 13 years just coloring. and playing games like kindergarden...
3. Americans need to look at the other countries. Are they asking this type of question? No, they are saying, what can we do to educate our kids better. If America continues to race to the bottom, and having more uneducated students, there is no way America can compete.
As a teacher of Alternative Education I have had nothing but class after class of students who have blown out of high school for behavioral issues and academic issues secondary to their struggles with math. They have academic low self-esteem from the moment they leave their regular high school. What they are, are writers and poets, musicians, craftspeople and caregivers. They are no less intelligent than their math-skilled peers. I have often joked that the regular high school sends me all its best writers because those students are making their school’s numbers look bad in this post-NCLB nation. We need to stop, immediately, with this push for engineers at the expense of liberal artists. It is doing nothing positive for the children of this generation.
Yes, that's the problem with American education: we're putting too much stress on math!
This is ridiculous. "Oh, it's too hard." "It's the main academic reason why students don't finish high school."
And this, which I just heard because I'm streaming it and am 15 or so minutes behind: "Do you have any evidence that people who take algebra are more thoughtful than those who haven't?" This is from the guy who made the statement about algebra being the main academic reason for dropouts, based on "talking to teachers"??!!!
Yeah, instead of finding better ways of teaching math - like STARTING EARLIER to encourage learning, and not DIScouraging interest in it - let's just get rid of it.
History can be tough, too - all those dates and names. Is that really necessary? How often are most of us asked about clashes between Greece and Persia? I saw "300", what the hell more do I need to know?
And Phys Ed can be pretty difficult, too. When was the last time you had to do jumping jacks or climb a rope?
Two points I would love to see addressed: 1) to what extent are the critical thinking skills of algebra students self selected from already enhanced thinkers, and
2) as someone who aced algebra in 5th grade, and never learned how algebra was different than "math" what makes something algebraic, isnt it all math?
I agree that we should not give people a pass on something simply because it is difficult. We need to improve the way we help people understand mathematics. Mathematics is more than a worksheet on a desk and we (teachers) need to emphasize this. Mathematics cannot be confined by the bounds of classroom walls, rather it must transcend to everyday life.
I believe everyone can do math, all people are born wired for literacy and numeracy! The PROBLEM is the problems, not the student. We need to let students see problems their way, and teachers need to follow the student's line of thinking. We (teachers) need listen to the student's thoughts, identify if they are breaking any math rules and challenge their ideas along the way to the correct solution! We need to build their math confidence so we can create a generation of free thinkers and problem solvers to help the US reclaim its creative edge over our competition around the world.
jodi@edingtonmath.com
EdingtonMath.com
Without algebra, how do you calculate how much medication to give your baby in the middle of the night, if you have a bottle that is a different strength? How do you cook and adjust a recipe? How do you build something? How do you figure out how many plants or seeds you need to buy to fill a flower bed? How do you sell a/c systems? How do become a nurse/architect/businessman? How do you manage people in healthcare who are using math all day long? Learning algebra is as important as learning to read.
We have allowed our culture to convince us that "math is hard" and to be avoided. After all, an art assignment is not called a "problem"; a science experiment isn't a "problem"; writing a poem isn't a "problem"; but math homework is a set of "problems". Problems are things that we want to avoid.
I hated it when my children's teachers gave math assignments as a punishment for bad behavior.
Interestingly, kids love puzzles, riddles, and mysteries. These are solved with the same mental activity. The critical, logical, and symbolic thinking that comes with math can come by other activities but mathematics will train this sort of thinking.
Teaching it in a way that engages students is essential!
Your guest says, "most of us aren't gifted for math" but I don't believe it. I think the gift is repressed by our culture. Your guest is reinforcing this repression.
Studies show learning or studying a foreign language can diminish alzheimer's and other cognitive deficiencies......y'all have not even mentioned the benefits of learning another language
ALGEBRA IS USED EVERY DAY...to compare prices at the grocery store, to calculate the amount of liquid fertilizer to add to how much water, to figure out the right gas/oil mix for your lawn equipment, etc.
If students are having problems with algebra, we need to look at the way it is taught. I took Algebra I in 9th grade and LOVED it. My teacher made it so easy, because she added ONE STEP each day, and it was very logical. It was just like solving a puzzle, and was a wonderful game.
I couldn't wait to take Algebra II in 10th grade. Unfortunately, I had such a poor teacher (HE didn't even understand what he was teaching, which became very readily obvious). Although I made A's in the class (by studying the book on my own), the class gave me such a headache that it was the only class that I ever skipped. Had he been my first teacher, I would never have learned Algebra.
Algebra is NOT meaningless. It is vital to functioning.
I just went on "Professor" Hacker's CUNY ratings site... and see that he was rated "pretty easy" in his classes (3.3 out of 5)....
CLEARLY he is NOT a task-master.... and seems to have decided to take on Algebra as a class that might be difficult.... and so HE thinks that we should de-emphasize/eliminate it....
What a TERRIBLE excuse for an educator!!!
Dan Slosek
Cape Coral, FL
Given how far US academic achievements have fallen compared to the rest of the world, I find it ludicrous that we should be further cutting material from our curricula. I'm sorry, but the argument against algebra seems to be "it's too hard, so let's not bother". What kind of message does that send to students, and indeed, to the rest of the world?
Furthermore, I'm disappointed that this discussion has a two to one ratio of political scientists to mathematicians in this discussion. I expected better of the Diane Rehm Show.
I just went on "Professor" Hacker's CUNY ratings site... and see that he was rated "pretty easy" in his classes (3.3 out of 5)....
CLEARLY he is NOT a task-master.... and seems to have decided to take on Algebra as a class that might be difficult.... and so HE thinks that we should de-emphasize/eliminate it....
What a TERRIBLE excuse for an educator!!!
Dan Slosek
Cape Coral, FL
Our college is involved with a critical thinking program across the curriculum. Math teaches linear reasoning. This is one way of problem solving. But there are other creative ways that are nonlinear in nature that and are still critical thinking problem solving.
I just went on "Professor" Hacker's CUNY ratings site... and see that he was rated "pretty easy" in his classes (3.3 out of 5)....
CLEARLY he is NOT a task-master.... and seems to have decided to take on Algebra as a class that might be difficult.... and so HE thinks that we should de-emphasize/eliminate it....
What a TERRIBLE excuse for an educator!!!
Dan Slosek
Cape Coral, FL