The Diane Rehm Show

oooo great discussion. I guess I am an "elite", having worked my way out of small town poverty to go to medical school and become owner of a business that grosses 1.4 mil/yr. Here are some observations over the past 30 years:

1. The institution I worked in told me I didn't make as much as a similarly tasked doctor because, "well, he just has a bigger presence around campus". Another women MD 5 yrs earlier was told she didn't make as much because her parallel male MD "had a wife and 5 kids and needed more money". In this environment, YOU CANNOT WIN. Leave. I did, and created my own rules and income. Not to say I didn't love my boss, but he was a product of his times.

2. The biggest impediments to my career were actually other women (nurses in particular).

3. Marry right. I have a husband who supported my aspirations. As another MD, it would have been easy for him to claim his god given gender right to be the bread winner here in the south, and insist I give it up for the home hearth.

4. Outsourcing grunt work around the house was a great idea. Live in a small, yet clean apartment that has housekeeping help instead of a large house you can't manage. The time spent with your children is more than worth it. Ditto, don't drive expensive cars. Use the cash instead to give yourself more time with your kids.

5. Lastly, I hope my daughter's daughter (one day!) never has to hear this sort of debate, excellent as it is, because this problem will be gone.

Thanks.

Agree re outsourcing "grunt work"--would not be able to do my job and be the mother I want to be without an amazing nanny. Yes, it cuts back on our disposable income, but the peace of mind knowing my daugther is happy and attended to all day while I'm gone (4 days a week) and coming home to a spotless house is worth it. I estimate I get about 1.5 hours more sleep a day because I don't have to drop off and/or pick up from day care. On Fridays I work form home, and have the nanny, and I take breaks to nurse my daughter when she's hungry (so I don't have to use the dreaded breast pump any more).

We can only afford 40 hours a week of the nanny, so my husband is responsible for 3 hours in the afternoons (he gets off at 2:30 every day). But, with my new job I'm always able to be home in time to put her to bed @7:30, which is priceless. At the old firm, it was always a choice, get home in time to put my daughter down or risk pissing off a partner who would say negative things about your for being gone when he dropped by @6:30 with 20 questions that needed answers ASAP. It was, in that environment, impossible to have it all.

I am a working mother of 2 young children 3 and 8 and me an my husband both have to work and still leave pretty much pay-check to pay-check. We both are highly educated but have to work in jobs which do not pay much,but my position as a lecturer right now pays so low that we basically cover the bare necessities. The issue I am mostly struggling in this country is the lack of family support. I think US is one of the worst countries in this matter. Most European countries offer financial support, paid maternity and paternity leave for a year or more. A poor country like Romania, which is struggling with negative birth rates makes huge efforts to support mothers: a year of paid salary at 80%, with job security after they return. Father can take paternity leave for up to a year, too. How come that a rich country like US can not even afford the job security of young parents if they decide to take a leave? Here you have to pay astronomical amounts to have your child in child care starting at 6 mo. if you have to return to work. It seems that the state remembers they have children only when these start kindergarten, and parents do not need to pay for schooling anymore. What happens with the children 0 to 5 ? Why are there not more affordable places or free day cares? I feel that families here are not supported at all, and it is a luxury to have a child. Remember children are not the treasury of a family, but of a country and we as a nation have to do more to help families raise productive and valuable youngsters and they should have a better role model in their parents than stressed out and tired parents who work continuously with little breaks.

oops, sorry for the double posting ;-)

With this show re: the 'flexibility' concept I'm a little vague -exactly- what that is. But nonetheless..
I think with professional parents..the desired result for the children is a) make sure they are covered with the best health plan; or at least an adequite one. One that if necessary (a very big possibility) will cover them beyond college.
b1) If they have a daughter..keep her reading 'a lot!'. Preferably intelligent litterature, not pop. Engaged in sports somewhat: swimming, volleyball, soccer? With sex, for all intents tell her it does'nt exist (better to have a nerdy, insecure kid than a promiscuous daughter. nes pa? ) And with all kids, keep them away from 'all' drugs. The concept of experimentation..should'nt fly. If this alone can be done, you have a winner.
b2) a Boy? Again in Sports (a lot. Master the whole -stupid- notion of competition. Cause yea. it matters). And again, reading. ..having a comfortability in reading/comprehending. And again, away from the drugs..tho if they're going to play sports...you can count on drinking.
... But yea. Tho perhaps from a professionals perspective you might think it outlandish the idea your kid could party a lot...it's just blocks away.
...
Cause really, this makes the difference between winning & losing. And rest assured, the gap is going to widen: between penalties for messing up..things such as getting 1's voting rights back..passports..lots of things.
...
And face it: your kid is going to pay for college the same way you did: a large part thru scholarships.

So get em the I-Pad, the I-Phone (eventually)..put the parental blocks in..put em in a corner & let them do their thing.
.....
1 last comment, namely the pic that went with this article from 2008; the pic of Marina Katrova. Anyone else notice the wall-mounting map of the world behind her?

I just heard the guest say "women who have men,,," I wonder what the reaction would be be there were two male guest who said "men who have women..." rather than "men who are with women..."

I could hardly stop the tears streaming from eyes, well not really, this show was painful to listen too. Are we to believe that the total accumulation of human experience and hardships has led us to this point where women are by the own words weak and powerless. Is there any doubt that the discussion panel participants march to the tune of the permanent victim ideology of the democrat party. Apparently the modern women is herself a child and incapable of accepting personal responsibility, why don't we just get it over with and set up government run mandatory orphanages and a system of female breeders to replenish the population.

We never say that men are disconnected or just speaking for the elite when they give an idea?

What about Mitt Romney or President Obama or politics in general. This happens all of the time, not just when a woman expresses an opinion that is not generally accepted within societal norms.

Ecberht,
I thought all the righties were adamant against contraception and the "family planning" that Planned Parenthood espouses. The women who get pregnant are only a half of the issue........unless you believe humans are capable of oogenesis or hermaphroditic union on a massive scale.
If there unwanted children, why aim only at the females? Where are your criticisms of the males? Behavioral scientists will readily tell you that males are the initiators of intercourse MOST of the time and therefore are supposed to be the half of a coupling that "decides" first........or have you discovered some race of ravenous irresistable females?
And don't discount the effects of 24/7 saturation of the media with sexual exploitation. Is there any movie or TV show that depicts anything other than sex on a first date? Even vampires and other horror flick characters end up in the sack. Ever watch daytime TV with Springer and Maury and Cunningham and all the judge shows? It's non-stop encouragement of procreation MINUS accountability. Thoughtful intelligent men in particular are labeled dweebs, nerds, etc. unless they put big numbers up in belt notches. Charlie Sheen reruns are on many networks.
It is not so simple to target just women.

I am a mother and a professional who has been conflicted with this subject, almost crippled by trying to be SuperMom/SuperProfessional, never with any time even to think of myself in all of the pressures of keeping up with it all. I feel in my biology that I was meant to be a mother first and foremost while I have children--that's why I had children. The value of the position and abilities of the mother has been degraded and retarded over recent decades for a number of reasons. Alternately, the importance of the father in the family has gained importance, which is good. As a family unit, everyone has various parts they play within the family which, when relatively balanced, can maintain a wonderful healthy family atmosphere. Not everyone is good at doing every part. There is a women's issue here-yes, a family issue which fully includes the spouse-yes, but there is an issue of the current mindset of Business and Politics, a problem with the general American workplace attitude and interpretation/expectation of emplyees and/or prefessionals. There is a lack of support and a robbing/hoarding of time and energy with the pressures of high global competition bearing down on and throughout our society, through schools, media, businesses/jobs, politics, there's an elevated expectation level of conduct and "super-commitment" that has encroached and compromised balances of family life, moreover human life! Time seems to be of the essence these days as we rocket through our lives faster and faster to answer to the disconnected demands of this global competition and dare I say self-serving capitalism; even academic and sports competition with the crazy schedules that families need to accommodate. We all need to slow down and look at why "we" compete, what for, for what ends, before the rate of increase of speed implodes. Slow down this freight train--Families first!

ec - Why aren't you answering the question?? Why aren't you placing ANY blame on the men when it's at least 50% their responsibilty???? In our society, men are encouraged to lie, cheat, whatever it takes to put another notch in their belts and then women are blamed & left to shoulder all the responsibility just because they believed what someone they cared for said to them! When are you going to hold the ones MOST responsible accountable???? When are you going to criticize them??? Crass & ham-handed aren't the phrases that spring to mind. Misogynistic, factually impaired, agenda-driven, those are the phrases that do!
BTW - I love men but facts are facts & even most of the good ones have had periods of horn-dog behavior. If pregnancy occurs, they get off with a "boys will be boys" while the woman is left holding the bag (or baby) & labeled loose, irresponsible, etc.
So, please answer her question - why are you holding women responsible but not men???

Soundpam,
Well stated. Daytime TV alone would crumble without the endless stream of no-account jerks, cads, brain-dead "play-ahs" who routinely impregnate literally dozens of different women (mostly very young teen girls). Even if the stats were reduced to one guy and one girl, the problems would be greatly diminished. But when one guy has a literal stable of "baby mommas" (note this is a pervasive term now, not just one ethnic group uses it), it reaches Old Testament dimensions.
Support systems for kids are woefully inept and cannot even define who the dads are. Again, it takes more actual physical involvement than just "laying down" implies. I guess society should feel lucky that STDs are not at epidemic levels, as is the case in some nations. If men thought they might contract a fatal disease by engaging in non-committed sex, they would be SO much more careful.
Note that I once worked on a military base overseas that was shut down tight twice because so many G.I.s contracted STDs, even though prophylactics were available and almost free. Young males have a serious control problem and our american society ENCOURAGES them to be thoughtless.

I was disturbed by Linda Perlman Gordon's comment "You know, I really had no model for working. I was a solidly middle- to upper-middle-class kid without a working mother in sight. And I found myself -- I think I was just ambitious. And I -- what I had to do was make it up every single step of the way. I was lucky enough that I didn't have to support my family."

If she attended school there were plenty of working mothers in sight every where, teachers managing their careers and their family lives. If she had to make it up every step of the way she was much too self absorbed to see one model of balancing career and family by choosing to work for less to match a work schedule to the schedule of the children.

soundpam wrote:
"ec - Why aren't you answering the question?? So, please answer her question - why are you holding women responsible but not men???"
What part of "A lot of men are selfish pigs" don't you understand?
You, like others, paint women as victims, not as the empowered individuals they should be. " just because they believed what someone they cared for said to them!" is supposed to be empowering? Or do you see women as too stupid to see through the selfish pigs? I don't.
"SERIOUSLY?????? Do you have any idea what the rate of date-rape is in our country???????"
I thought about mentioning rape cases, but they are a small percentage of unwanted pregnancies. The biggest percentage of cases is consentual sex with the horn dogs. I am not discounting the responsibility of the horn dog. But I AM saying that the woman ends up SHOULDERING the responsibility. Like it or not. Fair or not.
If someone attacked you on the street, would you just stand there and take it? Or would you fight back? What you are suggesting is that women should just stand there and take it and then blame the attacker. I think women should fight back against the horn dogs. (And I'm speaking metaphorically about sexual relationships, not about rape cases). The poster somi let herself be a victim and not even from a horn dog. She's in a commited relationship! Who is repsonsible for the poor choice she has made? Go back and read my response to her again. It's rational and fair.
"Misogynistic, factually impaired, agenda-driven, those are the phrases that do!"
pam, personal attacks don't move the debate forward. Facts do. Factually impaired? Where? I need chapter and verse. Misogynists hate women. Nothing I have said can be construed to say that I hate women. I want to see women empowered. You want to let women continue to suffer unwanted pregnancies and blame the horn dogs. In the real world, who has the interests of women at heart?