American Roman Catholic Nuns And The Vatican
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-06-14/american-roman-catholic-nuns-and-vatican
In April, the Vatican issued a strong rebuke to the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, or LCWR, a group that represents 80 percent of all Roman Catholic nuns in the United States. The Vatican accused the nuns of promoting radical feminism and not doing enough to speak out against abortion and gay marriage. This week, a LCWR delegation met in Rome with Vatican doctrinal officials, but little was resolved. Many Catholics agree with the Vatican's position. But the LCWR and affiliated groups say since the rebuke they've experienced a groundswell of support for their activism and efforts to help the poor. Diane and her guests discuss the dispute and the role of women in the Catholic Church.
Guests
Maureen Fiedler
host of public radio's Interfaith Voices and Sister of Loretto.
John Allen
senior correspondent, National Catholic Reporter; author of "Conclave" and "All the Pope's Men."
Stephen White
fellow in Catholic Studies, Ethics and Public Policy Center.
Comments
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Why are real Christians (those who sell their possessions and give to the poor) so rare? Seems like 'prosperity gospel' is the most popular version nowadays.
The nuns are showing a tiny shred of independent thought. No wonder the Vatican is cracking down so harshly.
When the wealth church supports the nuns financially as they do the priests, then they may say where the nuns live. The nuns' work has always been in helping the poor. This is done both by speaking on the poor's behalf and by actual hands on care. Why would the church be opposed to nuns taking an actve role in helping the poor? Perhaps it makes the lazy men at the top look bad.
The person I am today is due in large part to a religious order of nuns....and I like who I am today.
The sisters (nuns) are truly DOERS of the Word...not just "speakers" of the word....they exemplify Love in ACTION.
Kate
The Church is whatever its members make of it. This includes the members of its hierarchy and those among the flock they can convince.
Though this idea is in my case a product of my rejection of Platonism, neo- and otherwise (no essential natures) and my lack of belief in a deity looking out for and guiding the Church, the idea that the Church consists of the entirety of the communion of the faithful is in fact orthodox Catholicism (and literally 'catholic'), and as I understand it, 'good' Catholics believe that the Church is moved by its members to the extent permitted by the Holy Spirit.
I will be forever grateful to the Daughters of Charity who taught me in high school that I could be anything I dang well wanted to be.....and the Grand Rapids Dominicans for giving me the higher education to do just that!
Now in my mid-50s I sometimes think joining an order sounds like a good idea. Then I remember how long and how hard these women work, and I think again!!! Thank you, Ladies!
The Vatican prosecuted and persecuted Galileo for publishing reports of his observations that the Solar System is not Geocentric but Heliocentric (Earth and all other planets orbit the Sun) which they deemed to be blasphemy and heretical because Galileo's conclusions contradicted the universe as constructed by God. Turns out it was Galileo who was reporting the universe as God has created it and the Vatican et. al. were more than teaching, they were enforcing a description of the universe that contradicts the Truth of God. As yet, neither Pope Urban (IV?) or any of his co-conspirators have been condemned based on their own charges. To SEEK God IS to know God.
As a lifelong practising Catholic, I believe the actions of the Vatican on this matter send a terribly hurtful message to not only the nuns, but also to women throughout the church and to lay Catholics in general. This seems to be yet another step to push women into a more limited role and to silence them. It also seems to be yet another step to undo Vatican II and to silence the voice of the laity, while also promoting one part of the churches' social teachings as more important than the others. I pray the Vatican leadership and those who support them will come to understand that the voices of all members of the church are a gift from God and can help strengthen the church. As the bible often notes, we all have unique gifts and it is a shame to see the church trying to silence rather than celebrating the fruit of the gifts of some of its members.
As a woman who was brought up Catholic, I see no reason for women to belong to this Church. I doubt these nuns will leave the Church, but they should.
One of the issues many have with religion and for some of my friends who were raised as Carholics, is that there is this "do as I say because I know what's best for you," disconnect. When the church crushes individuals who have talents and passions that would assist the church in the works that it claims to be here for, it is outrageous. From the top down means no woman has a say in anything that she is close to and has more knowledge with. Because the nuns are the ones in the trenches and love from the core outward, regardless of life's pitch. Christ loved all and from the core out, that is how he gained souls. Follow Christ's example not interpret the teaching to what 'man' has deemed acceptable.
I'm interested in the idea of the nuns' "silence" on issues that the Vatican deems to be important, such as opposing abortion or promotion of the traditional family structure. How much of their work should be given over to voicing Vatican policy on these issues, before the sisters can go on with their work with the poor, the sick, and the vulnerable? Would a 10 percent increase do it, or do they need to be closer to 25 or even 50 percent?
The church does not financially support nuns. Years ago, there was a huge problem of retired nuns living with nothing.
This is a perfect example of people being good in spite of organized religion. Nuns' compassion to the least among us and to the unfortunate, their promotion of justice for all is at odds with the outdated patriarchal religious doctrine and leadership that's so out of step with social progress.
If it were not so insidious it would almost be laughable that the Vatican is rebuking nuns for their pursuit of social justice claiming that it is contrary to the Vatican's moral compass. One only has to look to the Vatican's inexcusable handling of the continuing sex abuse scandal to see how interested they are in true social justice. The Vatican has long had a history of flip flopping between true, clear-eyed progressiveness and close-minded, avaricious discrimination.
Agree. It seems like the CEO of a corporation without a suggestion box for employees!
Mr. White speaks in an already accusatory manner that is a closed minded statement, seems to be accusing LCWR of heresy. He also condemns most US Catholic lay women- who use or have used contraceptives in ways that are appropriate. It sounds like an indictment of women. Our world is complex and God is in the midst of humanity, not only the hierarchy.
My wife received her Masters Degree from Webster College. I took several courses at Saint Louis University (Roman Catholic) for my ThD. The Vatican is, once more, circling the wagons, as it did at the Council of Trent (Counter Reformation, 1500s). The REAL problem is not the specific doctrines the nuns are or are not espousing, but the nature of religious language, how one speaksd about God. The nuns are simply continuing a tradition begun by Martin Luther, challenging the Vatican's insistance on reading the Bible through Greek philosophical lenses.
I see echoes here of Matthew's gospel, chapter 9, verses 9-13. Jesus was always challenging the religious leadership of his day to put aside their preconceived notions of who is or is not acceptable in God's eyes. The nuns are squarely on Christ's side here, with the hierarchy playing the role of the pharisees.
The Vatican has always supported regimes that enhance the Church`s power.The Vatican found NO problem with the Fascist Nazi`s of World War II fame,even being willing partners in the Holocaust crimes. The Vatican would love to reinstall HERESY. Once a death penalty offense to speak out loud in opposition to the Church.
The global financial fears of today mirror those of the 1929 crash,and resulting global depression. We are easy pickings by the right wing extremist Fascists today.If we just get rid of the evil ones,(the TAKERS),we the MAKERS will make things right. In truth,the freedom of all Democracies are in jeopardy.
There are legitmate issues for nuns to persue. You are deviating from the only issue approptiate for your program...a nun's justifying support for abortion and gay marriage. Her taking to the media to bring pressure on the Vatican is a cheap shot. She does not have the courage to wade it out with the Pope and her vow of obedience without appealing the to non-Catholic public and pundits always eager to have an issue to take their own shots.. She is wrong on all counts.
Exactly, Mr. White. As a woman, I get Mary as my example: both mother AND virgin. Something most can never achieve.
Vatican is "light years" ahead of 10 years ago?
Yet Pope Benedict, who transferred pedophile practicing priests to other countries and parishes, is promoting the cannonization of Pope John Paul II who approved these transfers. Neither one punished these priests.
We need to remember there is NO transparency in the Vatican and indeed the Catholic church, nor is the instutional church a democracy. The sisters are what makes the church real today - they live the gospel. This is challenging the hierachy of the church. The church is becoming more and more a pre-vatican church. I no longer belong to a church that is re-asserting its abuse of power - over nuns, over children (sexual abuse) and over women generally.
The church seems obssessed with homosexuality, and abortion, yet cant address their own issues of sexual abuse.
Nuns have traditionally spoken out, challenged the staus quo. But I fear that they will lose this over this - everyone else who challenges the Church loses.
I will follow the LCWR stance with great interest and pray for them (yes, I still pray).
Where was the pope with his strong hand when priests (men) were abusing little kids and other men, including the pope himself, were covering up for them? And the abuse is still going on. This patriarchal excusing of priests and criticism of women in the church has to stop or the church will cease to exist. We are living in a world where women will no longer be "handled" and hushed by men. I left the RC church because of a priest, after 12 years of excellent, loving education from nuns to whom I will be forever grateful and I will continue to totally support. Many nuns are moving forward into the world as it progresses. I actually anticipate a schism from Rome--I believe something like it is happening in the Irish church right now. While we hear of female teachers sexually abusing their students, we have never heard of a nun sexually abusing a child. If I missed it, please enlighten me. With a dwindling number of men entering the priesthood, reasonable people would welcome the ordination of women.
I also sent an e-mail. The service of God in mind has always been done by all nun who lead me to a very Chrisian life style. Unfortunately that also lead me away from the Catholic church. No priest showed up when I called when i was in the hospital even though I called several times. It was another church that arrived. The truth is the Church is loosing face. Thank the lord I found a new church that I serve to my highest ability
I think this is about an ongoing war between two churches.
There's the church based on male domination and patriarchy: control of women, children (think pedophilia) and people of color. I don't think this church has anything to do with Jesus Christ. I think it is simply using religion to support the status quo.
Meanwhile, there's another church. This is the church that actively supports the true teachings of Christ. This is the church that volunteers, feeds and clothes the hungry, and fights injustice. The nuns.
I support the nuns 100%: they are the true Catholics.
I left the catholic church when I entered college in 1970 after 12 years of catholic school. I have one memory of being allowed to serve mass in high school. I don't remember the details but it was quickly put to an end as we were girls. I married my husband in the church in order to make our families happy but I 'cossed my fingers' when I agreed to raise any children in the church. The catholic church is definitely not women friendly and I hope the nuns revolt!
Why does the good sister keep framing this as the Vatican being opposed to social justice? The criticism was not about the good that the sisters do, which is immeasurably large. The criticism was about what the group, as an official representative of the church teaches.
And Jesus didn't say anything about abortion? He said to take care of the poor and vulnerable. I agree with that, but what is abortion but violence against the most poor and vulnerable in our world?
Although I am no longer a practicing Catholic, I am an Episcopalian, the only financial support I give to Catholic organizations is to five different Catholic Sisters' Religious Orders. I was educated by the Sisters of Charity, BVM and the Sisters of Notre Dame. They were brilliant educators, dedicated women and I am pleased to support their Orders, as well as Sister Maureen's, the Sisters of Loretto at the Foot of the Cross.
The American Catholic education system and American Health Care was implemented in the 19th century by heroic nuns toiling in miserable conditions which would be shocking today. Nuns deserve all our thanks and financial support
The right wing extremists call the work of Jesus Christ "Social Engineering" today, and EVIL. Churches across the nation have become centers of hate teaching. It breaks my heart. It breaks my wallet too,giving these monsters tax break privileges.