New Cholesterol Research And Heart Disease Prevention
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-06-12/new-cholesterol-research-and-heart-disease-prevention
In the 30 years since they were approved by the FDA, cholesterol-lowering drugs called “statins” have cut in half Americans’ death rate from heart disease. Today, more than 20 million Americans take a statin drug like Lipitor or Zocor. Many of these people have high cholesterol but no sign of heart disease. There is growing evidence that statins provide little or no benefit for healthy patients and can trigger dangerous side effects. And new studies question whether there really is any link between cholesterol levels and heart disease. Diane and a panel of guests discuss the latest cholesterol research and what it means for heart disease prevention.
Guests
Sharon Begley
senior health and science correspondent at Reuters and contributing writer to The Saturday Evening Post; author of "Train Your Mind, Change Your Brain"; and the co-author (with Jeffrey Schwartz) of "The Mind and the Brain."
Dr. Barbara Roberts
director, Women's Cardiac Center at Miriam Hospital in Rhode Island; associate clinical professor, Brown University's Alpert Medical school; author of "The Truth About Statins."
Dr. David Pearle
clinical cardiologist at Georgetown University Hospital, and professor in the department of medicine at Georgetown University.
Comments
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I had a heart attack & was placed on statins. I had severe muscle pain. After reading a tremendous amount about statins in books & in literature, I realized my muscles were being broken down by the statin. The medical assistant just said I was "allergic" to the statin. Within 3 months of stopping the statin, all the pain went away & I became more left & could think more clearly. Goggle Stepanie Seneff. She wrote a great essay about stains and cholesterol.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia and have elevated cholesterol levels (averaging 300+) since I was 14, I am now 24. I have seen several cholesterol specialists, and have gone against their advice about taking statins, as there are no real longevity studies about youth taking them through their adulthood. I am very athletic and have a body fat percentage hovering around 14%, so the studies indicating muscle fatigue/ahces for athletes on statins was a huge turn off.
I eat only all natural and mostly organic un-processed foods, consume non-fat dairy in addition to excluding wheat and grains from my diet. I feel as though this in combination with high levels of exercise (10+ hours per week) might be doing more for my health than flooding my system with statins and other cholesterol medications.
Most members of my family have grotesquely high cholesterol (500+), but many appear to be living to old/healthy ages. My grandfather finally was diagnosed with heart disease at age 86. I guess only time will tell in regards to my condition, since I refuse to be medicated.
This is a very involving topic, & my post was more regarding the guest classifying 'Mediterranean' as vegetarian.Im very familiar with the China study & Forks Over Knives documentary & the supporters.I eat the exact same way a veg. does-only with low fat animal protein.I am intolerant to soy, & could not get the protein I needed strictly from vegs. I may be an unusual case, perhaps my blood sugar is more sensitive than others who can thrive on grains, beans, nuts, soy products, etc.Im always happy to get protein from my broccoli and brussel sprouts- but even a few beans will send me into hot sweats and nausea- trust me, I love them!So while it may be ideal, & I look forward to the perfect world I know is coming when we will all eat strictly plants (even the animals), until then, I simply cannot subsist on plant sources alone.I tracked every single thing I ate through out most of it on a calorie tracker.Regarding calories, I gained 13 pounds.Eating too little was not the problem.I eat much fewer calories now (& in general than my Vegan friends) & I can do so without hunger, fatique because I keep my protein over 100 grm a day & my carbs about the same or less, & typically half my calories daily come from healthy flaxseed oil &olive oil fats.I went from a size 13/14 to a size 6/8 and ran a 5K this week.I know that eating a plant-based diet is crucial, that's why I do it.And then I supplement some healthy fish & chicken based protein on top of it.I have much more lean muscle mass than my veg/vegan friends,& weigh a lot less than all of them.Plant based is difficult from a carb standpoint & some of us are much more sensitive than others.Politely, I have had this conversation a lot & am frustrated with "Have you ever heard of Forks Over Knives?" I have no argument about the vegs, & had I not tried it, I may not be able to comment about my experience, but I have, & it was the heaviest, the sickest & most tired, not to mention depressed time in my life.Thanks.
I have been on statins for a long time. I am now borderline diabetic. I also have problems with cognitive function. There are times I cannot think of words. And I am a writer. It isn't good. And we don't have dementia in my family.
Also, I have been looking into the Paleo diet. When I stick on it I feel a lot better. More energy. Etc. I know the one author/doctor pushes the Mediterranean diet but I have also read very good things about the Paleo diet. I have also studied archaeological reports that include paleonutrition and health of the populations and saw an increase in peridontal and bone related disease (and other) when grains were introduced in large numbers.
I have had high cholesterol levels for the last 35 years or so (I am 60 now) but have refused to take statins ever since I found out about my elevated level. 5 years ago a doctor, when finding out that I had high cholestrol and me telling him that i wouldn't take any drugs to lower the level, told me: "I wish you die if you have a stroke." Wow, this person should not be practicing medicine!
also: the levels to prescribe statins in Germany i.e. are very different than in the US. Last i checked was 200 plus your age! That is quite a difference. My level currently is at 280, has been for many, many years between 240 and 280.
I exercise and have a very good diet and seem to be healthy. I will never take these drugs and can only advise everyone to use common sense, this has gotten so much out of hand and it's downright criminal the amount of fear that is put into you by the medical profession and pharma industry, when you refuse to take these drugs!
Nicole F, thanks for your comments in regards to a whole food plant based diet being the most beneficial, not only for heart disease, but many other diseases. It is. This my friends, this is THE cutting edge of curing the myriad of chronic disease that haunts industrialized societies. In addition to The China Study, read Caldwell Esselstyn's Preventing and Reversing heart disease. He does with folks who were sent home to die by Cardiologists at the famous Cleavland clinic who told them there was nothing more that they could do - and, 20+ years later they are THRIVING! They eat a whole food, NO added fats, plant based diet.
In fact, the benefits from the Mediterranean diet is because of the heavy emphasis on the plants, NOT olive oil. Good Olive oil is a MYTH! It's actually harmful. See http://www.pritikin.com/your-health/healthy-living/eating-right/1103-wha...
Also, for a good introduction to plant strong nutrition go rent "Forks Over Knives" (surgical knives, that is)
Nicole
Thank you for chiming in
I agree with you 100%
You are right on target
I have been treating Patients
For 20 years mostly with statins
Much more important is LIFESTYLE
What you put in your mouth is more important
Than a statin especially in pt who have no risk factors
People should exercise lose weight and
Eat whole grains plants legumes beans oatmeal fruits
Sweet potatos
The dairy and beef industry has persuaded
All of us that we need to eat meat daily
Read the China Study and see Forks over Knifes
To see why animal protein is so overrated
NOT eat meat
Pl
Joanne
Total Chol = LDL + HDL + TRIG/5
As a hypothetical example
200 = 120 + 60 + 100/5
Tom
It sounds as if Dr Pearle is having an awful time breathing--wonder what's wrong with him? My cardiologist is fat, and I went to look at Pearle's pic at the GU website and he looks fat to me. Anyway to cut to the chase, I don't recall DR having Esselstyn or McDougall on her show.
So far as I'm listening, no one has called in to relate their experiences with a whole-foods, no-fat-added, plant-based diet. If Diane Rehm is unaware of the diet or hasn't met anyone who has had great results of relief from all kinds of ills, she's doing a disservice by remaining ignorant and not having a wide-ranging at least 2-hour discussion on the subject of THE BEST DIET (AS WE AGE) FOR HEALTH.
Here's a link to the reviews of Esselstyn's book, if you're in pain or want to quit statins and get healthy, feast your eyes: http://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/prod... All that's pushed on this show is the Med'nean Diet--olive oil is a scam as much as statins being pushed the way they are.
BTW, Esselstyn's number of 150 total cholesterol, which isn't even mentioned here on this show is the number at which he says a person is "Heart Attack Proof." That number is based on the Framingham Study.
Please please please have a wide-ranging show with some alternatives to meds for people who are desperate and sicker WITH the statins than they were without them!
Just did a quick search here on drshow.com and Diane hasn't ever had McDougall (John) MD or Caldwell Esselstyn MD. But she's about to waste an entire hour with total nutcase, Buzz Bissinger. Her producers ought to check out his recent tweets--not someone I'd think Diane would go for. Hmmmm . . . DR needs new producers or something.
Thanks for this forum. I wouldn't miss the DR Show 99 times out of 100--there's always that one that does nothing for me:-)
In introductory statistics they always drum into your head that correlation does not mean causation. Yet, it seems that drugs are recommended simply based on correlation. For drugs that one takes over decades, wouldn't the precautionary principle suggest a higher bar?
Someone asked what test shows heart disease/damage? Get a Cardiac CT/Scoring. I had one recently (Cleve OH area) at a private facility (non hospital), they charged $100 (no ins.) direct to me, I then submitted to my HCFSA. You need an Rx from your MD, but for $100, great peace of mind, or warning/info! I got in same day as I called, results next day.
I also wonder how many people know the accuracy of an elbow blood draw for cholesterol is +/- 10%. This means your 200 total Chol. can be 180-220. Finger prick tests are even less accurate. Further, you should be tested multiple times, and consistently to determine trends. We are medicated based upon a single test, but we know the use of the medication is now in question.
Diet plays a huge role, as many posted. You dont necessarily have to eat only beans and leaves, but you do need a good doctor, who is patient and takes his/her time investigating, not just knee-jerking you into a statin because you hit the unholy 200 level. In the 1980s, they didnt do anyting until you hit 240, now, they worry at 180, and there simply is not evidence that 240=heart attack. My family has a history of the thin ones dropping at 40, not the fat ones who eat butter on top of cheese. As someone noted, correlation versus causation. I think 20 of 300 million on statins is correlation-causation - i.e. users to profits.
Finally, research is starting to show inflammation causes much of the heart related issues, not fats/diet. Much like osteoporosis (where the myth is a lack of calcium - thus dairy & supplements - when actually there is evidence it is an oversupply of dietary protein from excessive meat/dairy which causes bones to be stripped of minerals), the answers are only found where you look. If we only look at butter on cheese, and the chol. number is subsequently higher than some arbitrary standard, then logic says we should take a pill since one exists. Given the side effects and other questions, I think not.
Another point: Find the cause of the high cholesterol! It may not be diet!
In 2008 (age 37), I had 296, with trig. 1400+. I change eating (was really bad), refused statins, got it to 196 in 3 mths., but my MD insisted I still take a statin, so I got a new MD! In 2011, my Chol was at 324, with new diet, and tri 1900+, & I had other symptoms (i.e. sudden weight gain, dizzyness, fatigue) so my new MD started looking. He did a full blood work up, including a full lipid profile, and an LP-IR score. We found out I was insulin resistant (91 on the 0-100 LP-IR scale). With Metformin (1000mg/day), I am now at 220 total, and trig 300-350 - with no further diet change!
Up to 25% of our population is believed to have some level of IR. It is a hidden problem that often goes missed until you are full-blown diabetic, as well as with heart issues, and it is very easy to check!
Had I taken the statin, it would NOT have solved my problem, and I would have had permanent liver damage within a year or so.
Further, I had a Cardiac CT (see my other post), and found I was 100% normal & clear of any blockage, etc.! Yes, I am lucky (except for the insulin problem), but the real save was the fact I have an MD who is curious and listens to his patients. A pill does not always fix something. Be honest with your doctor, tell him your lifestyle, but if your doctor will not investigate and just wants to push a pill based on a single test, FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR!
I very well may have been on the transplant list, and seriously diabetic by now if I hadn't gotten another opinion! I am on a med forever, but I know what I am in for and can makes the appropriate changes without a medication that causes so many problems. Statins are bad news (they dont even reduce chol that much anyway), and I'd rather have died (literally, this was discussed) than be on one given the overall issues.
Who writes (and leads) with junk like this?
""""In the 30 years since they were approved by the FDA, cholesterol-lowering drugs called “statins” have cut in half Americans’ death rate from heart disease."""""
Who would ever give exactly ONE component the full credit for a general THIRTY YEAR improvement in anything?
Plainly, it's preposterous.
Let's see what might have reduced the rate of heart disease death in the last thirty years:
--far less smoking (perhap a reduction by half or more)
--probably less very heavy alcohol drinking
--far more 911 emergency cardiac care availabilty
--far more effective field and hospital interventions
(including, of course, improved CPR and electrical external stimulation and many, many more pacemakers and AICDs (such as the one that Dick Cheney had for many years)
--far more knowledge and use of cheap medical alternatives, such as aspirin
--far better dietary information
--far more specific and targeted exercise regimes
--far more prophylactic cardio artery bypass grafts
But most of all, let's not forget the pharmaceutical advertising efforts to always take more than their share of the credit while....
minimizing the blame that should be theirs for trying to turning us all into overmedicated zombies.
I was prescribed statins at a major HMO. They gave no guidance whatsoever about possible side effects. It was part of their standard protocol and I was dumb enough to go along. After suffering muscle pain and cognitive problems and depression I went back several times. They simply prescribed more drugs to mask the symptoms without ever considering that I was reacting badly to statins. Each new drug had its own additional side effects. I stopped taking all the medication, much to their dismay. It took many months for the pain to mostly go away and I had to discover for myself that a few vitamins/supplements were helpful in the process. Now I take a few vitamins and nothing else and feel a hundred percent better. This stuff is dangerous. Perhaps some don't react too badly but I suspect a whole lot of people are going around with at least substantial discomfort from statins. Nobody should take them without at least some substantial education from their doctor about the potential problems. And, hope your doctor actually knows. Mine didn't. It was the standard protocol and they prescribed it blindly.
After the early age stroke deaths of my parents from cholesterol clogged brain arteries, my doctor scanned my carotid artery for cholesterol and found 30% blockage. He subsequently prescribed Simvastatin for it's sealing capability in plaque lined arteries. As I exercise daily and had already lowered my cholesterol by changing my diet, I was soon in an interesting dilemma of having too low cholesterol levels.