Wisconsin Recall Results
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-06-06/wisconsin-recall-results
Governor Scott Walker survived an attempt to oust him from office. Wisconsin voters also gave him a place in history: It was the first time a U.S. governor has won a recall election. The recall campaign came about after the Republican governor stripped away collective bargaining rights for public workers. Walker's win was a blow for Democrats and unions. Republicans say their victory shows voters want leaders who will make tough fiscal decisions. Whether the Wisconsin results are a bellwether for the 2012 presidential race remains to be seen.
Guests
Chris Cillizza
author of The Fix, a Washington Post politics blog, managing editor of PostPolitics.com and author of the book, "The Gospel According to The Fix."
Molly Ball
staff writer for The Atlantic.
Craig Gilbert
Washington bureau chief, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
Douglas Belkin
reporter, The Wall Street Journal.
Comments
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kathleen, I missed "the ask". I was trying to get the techs to change a diaper and help a lady into her wheelchair so she can go play bingo. Goddawg, I just thought, the only game in nursing care is jackpot crazy just like the gambling outside.
5 in a row gets you a quarter. A jackpot mentality elects fascists.
Jancyball, Correct. Walker was unlimited in raising $, Barrett was limited to $10,000 max contributions. Walker was able to raise unlimited funds due to an obscure law governing fighting off a recall challenge, and there's almost no limit on WHAT he can DO with monies raised.
kathleen wrote:'Is this right?"
The fact that you do not know the answer to the question means your unqualified to opine.
Chris Cilizza "no transparency about where the money came from required" basically just said "the Koch brothers could have just bought themselves a state"
Arkus that was a pathetic response
kathleen wrote:
"Arkus that was a pathetic response"
No, I know I put links that are still there that describe in detail act10 at the start of this thread. You choose to read only what bolsters your preconceived notions and none of the facts. Further, considering all your complaining previously on this topic you should have entered this discussion knowing the facts, YOU don't!
Steve money is huge. The Obama campaign will raise massive amounts of money..so will Romney. Who outspends whom will make a huge difference. Citizens united
Disagree. I blame the lazy electorate. The ads on both sides, liberal and conservative, all contain half truths and outright lies. If the electorate would actually do their duty and inform themselves about the candidates, independent of the ads, Citizens United would be an academic study for law students and have virtually no effect in the real world.
"We have met the enemy and he is us"---Walt Kelly
kathleen: Sociopaths do not comprehend "right or wrong" but are adept a retarded debating tricks. Sometimes the "full monte" pops out stiff when it detects ambiguity. Combine that with "running with scissors" ...
I may not be polite enough for the call screener no matter how hard I try.
Equalizer, actually... it's the private sector that should be worried about a "brain drain." The U.S. hybrid system currently in place has created winners and losers. Those w govt jobs, pensions, benefits, security and PEACE of MIND are the winners, and those working in the private sector with NONE of that are the losers who are nonetheless expected to pay ever higher state and local taxes to fund the "winners."
I'm a Democrat, work in the private sector, have friends with government jobs, and I can tell you first hand, these people are living in a parallel reality. They are not stupid people but they truly cannot comprehend the fears and concerns people in the private sector have.
Government needs to find a way to level the playing field among workers and if it can't fix private sector employment, government has to "fix" government employment.
I always felt the recall was ill advised. I would have felt that way if it had happened , here, in Ohio, too. The trick would have been to put efforts into changing the dynamics in the state house. Collective bargaining was voted and approved upon. I have a serious problem, as a black woman, with people losing their voice. I do not have to agree but don't take their voice away. kasich cut funds to cities. Here, in Cleveland, our mayor, still was able to tweak the budget and not lay off anyone but combine over lapping services. kasich came to Cleveland, shook Mayor Jackson's hand to congradualte him on a job well done, went back to Columbus and cut so much money from Cleveland, he was forced to lay off. They have gutted the schools blaming teachers for their failure which is stupid since schools are inanimate objects and teach nothing. Yet, they want to give tax payer dollars to charter performing worse than CMSD's. Some have stolen millions but the ignorant populace like that. No degrees or teacher's certificates. No over sight, they are fighting that. No minimum standards. The right likes that, though. They are selling out our children as they started doing in the 60's and think all of us are stupid.
Who said: "It depends on how you define reality" ?
Mike Sargeant, I could kiss you. I have always felt the same way. Iusually turn the channel,(thank God for remotes) whenever ANY politcal add comes up. I don't care if it goes to a test pattern. I gauge the time and go back to my program. I read. Actually listen to people. I am in Cleveland but I always knew Kasich's agenda and was completely puzzled at how many people who voted for him did not know. Too lazy to read. Too lazy to vette. I love fact checking. I love listening to this station. yet, I read more than watch a news program. Usually ID channel if more interesting. they were speaking os unions as a part of the democratic machine but it was because of republicans that they came about. The same things they are doing now, they have been trying to either prevent or destroy them since Ford. This is not new. Just more kool-aid drinkers.
avintageyear: The higher pay and better benefits and better self-improvement opportunities of union workers uplift the entire labor market. There is no wall between a government job and a private one, so you can theoretically change, or at least prepare your offspring for the preferred choice. Government union membership in backward oppressed areas of the USA (like the Carolinas or Alabama) educates the workforce as to the advantages of organizing in the priivate sector. If there is no unionism wages and benefits tend to race toward the bottom. You may not understand how much less you'd have, and what a poorer community you'd suffer without the union example, and the healthy spending.
The worst mistake unions have made is to compromise with powerful corporations, and to fail to continue organizing a greater part of the workforce. Union leadership was often co-opted in the same way foreign leaders are, by economic hitmen. My understanding is that the people who actually do the work know more than management and are capable of owning and running businesses and governments. They certainly have a stronger incentive to maintain the enterprise than vulture capitalists and figure-manipulating CEOs. A union can be shady but a corporation is a pure tyranny.
i work in the private sector. 25 yrs. We had better perks when I started. My sister and our youngest daughter are public workers. My sis, 26 yrs and salaried and her husband a cop. She has not seen a raise in 7+ yrs. Her husband is union and gets what ever they get, yet, they have 2 daughters with one going into her 2nd yr of college. My daughter is relatively new(3 yrs.) coming from a bank who paid less but they will not get raises for the foreseeable future. Per co-workers, they have not had one for 7+ yrs, either. They do not get Social Security at all. They get Medicare Pt B no A. Their pension is their social Security. The PT A comes outof their budget. It is free for the private sector worker. They have changed the County government and the new head has given all non-union white collar workers major raises. The others still have not gotten any. As usual, the ones with the least, get the shaft. Both my sister and daughter are college grads.
Scott Walker prevailed because of a bunch of apathetic males who are more interested in what happens to the Green Bay Packers than their employee rights. This election highlights the skillful deflection of Karl Rove, the Republican Heirarchy and all their CASH. The were able to get the public to think it was about Labor unions rather than Employer versus Employee Rights. Not since Reagans "Attack on FAA Labor Union" has Employee rights taken such a huge blow. What were those people in Wisconsin thinking about?
Re: Caller from Portsmouth, NH, Norman's phone comment: Mike nailed the real issue. I am also a taxpayer in Portsmouth, NH, and totally disagree with Norman's resentment of unions and public employees. If filthy rich corporate heads like the Koch brothers and Wall Street high rollers hadn't high-jacked our country and economy, we wouldn't all be needing to tighten our belts; and public servers would be continuing to get the raises they deserve, without so much resentment. How dare Norman and his ilk scapegoat teachers, firefighters, policemen, et al, who contribute so much to our community's quality of life and deserve a decent living, vs. the obscenely wealthy gamblers who have gluttonously hogged most of our economy's pie and subsequently diminished the lives of middle-class people worldwide!
There is very little you can do when Rush Limbaugh and the crew,convince the people that the middle class wages they earn are excessive. That they are better off with less. That the people do not deserve pension funds,health care,and simple respect for the job they do.
When 36% of people who are in unions,believe their co-workers are takers,who are substandard compared to them,it means the Limbaugh/Right wing agenda of 'DIVIDE AND CONQUER" is working.
kathleen wrote:
"the DNC came into to lend their support in the Wisconsin race very late in the game. "
Honey, they've been working on this for TWO YEARS! When did you want them to start? Before Walker was born?!
The problem you all have here is that you are simply on the wrong side of the issue. Blame the Koch brothers, blame big business, blame whomever and whatever you want if it makes you feel better. The fact is, the people of WI are seeing the fiscal irresponsibility in places like CA, Europe, and Washington and they don't want it for themselves.
Not to accuse Gov. Walker of any wrong doing. IF there is a problem going forward, what impact could the John Doe case have on his future? what if ther is even a hint of complicity? Indictments have been made. It makes me think of Nixon. Watergate handing over his head like the sword of Damacles and completely ignored by the voting populace and then the hearings and the resignation. Could we possibly say deja vue???
Pancake,
I agree ENTIRELY w everything you've said. What do I really think? It's private sector employment that's broken and needs fixed! Everything you said is 100% correct-- nonunion private sector employees DID benefit from unionized employees' gains in rights, benefits, etc. Problem in the US for some time now is that people have forgotten all that.
Success has many fathers... and after Bill Clinton cleaned the place up and everyone willing to work was doing better, people apparently decided they were the fathers of their success, not Clinton. They must've thought in 2000, "Think how much better I'll do if I can just get a TAX CUT!" And voted for Bush!
And the rest you know. We all got our $300 check, wages went into freeze frame, then freefall... and here we are!
If Romney gets in to the White House, this country is OVER for the 99%.
I wonder how many Wisconsinites were as easily brainwashed as Mike Lyon.
(He's probably lyin', not Lyon.)
Ain't it sad when democratic process overturns fraud? Wouldn't tolerate that.
It ain't fair to question money power, nor polite neither.
I have yet to understand how paying for someone to work is fiscal irresponsibility. I do not get it. I find out yester, it was not until 1974, that a female teacher could not be fired for getting pregnant. That was archaic, also. there was a time she could not marry and teach. Paying someone for a days work is irresponsible? Okay, you take your garbage to the dump and pay the $30.00 a load to dump it. You make sure fires are put out. You police your own street. You do any or all of the mountain of jobs that keep a city, county, state country moving. Better yet, hire someone but they just work one day a week to collect the garbage. Teach the kids. clean the streets. The rest of the time it just builds up. That should do it and then they can get another job in the private sector, pay into social security and get PT A free, too.
avintageyear, you are the Wisconsiner I was referring to. I think what you are hearing from Pancake is "supply side economics" ("what a poorer community you'd suffer without the union example, and the healthy spending") with government as the "supplier".
Too funny!
Diane,
As a former congressional speechwriter and an independent who voted for president Obama, I think scott walker should have won the recall election. However, I think he went about the fight over unions the wrong way.
rather than simply stripping their bargainng rights strait away, I think he should have out forth a plan to fund their retirement liability in a more responsible fashion. The state, and all states, sold take a queue form the Feds and offer a generous 401k program. Therefore, states would have limited liability and would it have to pay out pensions for an indefinite period of time and employees could enjoy some income security without bankrupting localities and adding inreseased liabilities to tax payers. It does see counterintuitive to allow state employees to collectively bargain for our tax money.
pisces,
Again, the strawman rears his head. No one is saying that "paying for someone to work is fiscal irresponsibility". If you can point to where I said that, put up.
This is the federal stat, but it will make the point:
"Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available. These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis."
So including benefits, you're looking at approximately 108K for Federal employees vs. 70K for private sector. A lot of the problem is in the benefits. It's why CA is going broke. THAT is your puplic sector union. Thanks very much. THAT is why Walker targeted them first, and the measures he asked for were not draconian. As someone mentioned, government workers are in a parallel universe - they're definitely not living in the real world.
Union Envy ....
Hate unions because the unions have helped keep workers wage and benefits more in line with inflation and the American Dream ...
Mbuck66 wrote:
"I think he should have out forth a plan to fund their retirement liability in a more responsible fashion. "
He did, M. He asked them to pay a portion (like private sector workers do). That's when the screaming started.
atavintayear: I appreciate your careful analysis, but wages have been stagnant for workers since Carter. As for Clinton, he put two important nails in our coffin lid: Free Trade (actually corporate protection packages) Agreements, and financial deregulation. He also made wages fall by gutting the safety net. Don't you remember what was said, "I can prove Clinton has created jobs because I have three of them, and still can't make it." That statement continues to ring true in this "recovery."
It's so sad: I gave a woman with kids my old 2004 Prius and she didn't make enough working in food service at a rest home to do the maintenance, buy insurance or even pay the property tax on it. It is a plug-in convert so she bought no gas, but said it spiked her electric bill. (I never noticed the charge cost.) She gave it back and returned to hitching a ride. At least they let her carry grub home.
It's really hard for a mother on foot to participate in political activity.
We're returning to a Third World proposition.
I really get tired of people saying public works retire at a certain age. it is not an age, it is term of service. My sister, no public worker, started at her company at 16 and is still working but could retire with 46 yrs service at 62. People at my job have been able to retire when their yrs of service and age equals the federal retirement age. I am 63 and have 25 yrs in the private sector and can get full benefits and my late husband's social security until I age out. My sister has been teaching since 21 in CMSD and is now 59 and could retire with almost 40 yrs service. Who do you think you are. They should be carried out like a couple of teachers I know literally were. Will that make you happy? There are a few people here who have close to 50 yrs service. I have a 401K and will have health benefits. i get 34 Vacation days. Pri-vate sec-tor!! OOOH, they may come after me.
Patsy Nomore,
You're correct mostly, except for this: the mentality is apparently one of "You'll be screwed, but I'll be fine." "We need to cut government spending, but not MY program." This is how the Limbaugh crowd sucks people in. Everyone thinks THEY will be doing better with less government. Everyone thinks it's "the welfare cheats" and "government waste, fraud and abuse" that's running us broke.
The devil really is in the DETAILS and the likes of Walker and Limbaugh conveniently leave details out. People vote for these criminals, get screwed by them, then wonder what happened.
Remember Bush's Soc Sec privatization and how wonderful that was going to be? How many people who were in favor of it knew that you were never, NEVER going to get your hands on "your" Soc Sec $? The only way you were going to get access the money in your "private Soc Sec acct" was to turn it over to the govt in exchange for an "annuity!" The govt wasn't going to just send you a check for the full amount when you retired, no matter what your age! They were going to parcel it out to you, bit by bit each month. An annuity! For cryin out loud, Soc Sec is already an annuity!
Pop Quiz: What is the one single thing Congress could've done to solve 71% of the deficit problem? Was it A. cut foreign aid by half, B. cut Congressional pork spending by half, C. cut Soc Sec and Medicare, or D. let the Bush tax cuts expire? Correct answer is D. Percentages are less than 1% for A, less than 1% for B, 8-9% for C.