Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein: "It's Even Worse Than It Looks"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-05-07/thomas-mann-and-norman-ornstein-its-even-worse-it-looks
Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein join Diane to talk about their new book and why they think Congress has become more partisan and dysfunctional than at any other time in history.
Guests
Thomas Mann
senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and co-author of "It's Even Worse Than It Looks."
Norman Ornstein
resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
Comments
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I have become so disenchanted with the political situation - I see it as broken and possibly unfixable without a major overhaul. I voted for third party candidates in the last two elections for this very reason, and people become so entrenched in their positions that they can't see their nose on their face. The angry callers calling in to the show are case in point.
By March 1,2009 at the CPAC Conference Mr. Rush Limbaugh gave the Republicans their battle cry against President Obama, "I hope he fails". And each and every move after that was planned to damage the recovery,and the security of our Nation by Republicans.
Every meager job announcement is followed by a Republican victory celebration.AND THAT IS PATHETIC !!!
When the BIG BOX STORE ends it`s ICON "Greeter",just to promote it`s in-house politics,IT`S DISGRACEFUL !!!!
I say this as a frequent public radio listener and fan. In Diane's defense unlike some of her colleagues she does make an honest attempt to bring opposing viewpoints on her program. That said it's hours like this that corrode the credibility of public radio as being fair minded and non-partisan. I don't remember one program on public radio about the politics of left wing extremism in the Bush era despite a blockbuster documentary based in a quasi conspiracy theory, approximately the same percentage of Democrats believing in either the government causing or covering up 9/11 as Republicans who believe Obama was born in Kenya and as a specific example of something I saw poster all over downtown Ann Arbor that compared Bush to Osama Bin Laden.
A welcome show and on point. Actually it's even worse than Mann and Ornstein covered here, however "gently".
I do hope to see this subject revisited...
Some people take it as a matter of faith that "both parties are equally bad". No amount of evidence is enough to convince them that this is not true.
Willful ignorance is causing America's decline.
I love it when people say look at the constitution...that document is almost 225 years old a lot has changed in that time. Our government needs to keep us safe with rules and regulations from the greed of corporations . The only thing I agree with Ron Paul is get us out of the Fratboy's wars.
Mann and Ornstein have definitely thrown their hat in the ring for Obama. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, even authors. When you decide to throw blame at one party, you can no longer claim "objectivity" as your motivation. Case closed! Our Country is an institution that was built from the sweat and hard work of our ancestors looking for a better life. And where we are going is like trying to "decode" tea leaves! (neither party has a clue!). The only statement I can make about our political parties is that political parties should not be determing anything! We need to re-evaluate the role of Governemnt in our lives. The true crisis in our Country is the amount of power we have allowed our Government to have over our daily lives. Especially when our Government (Judicial, Executive, and Legislative) is so rampantely populated by people who only care about one thing; MONEY! Vote for a way of life that protects YOUR freedom to live the life of YOUR choosing! Perhaps your definition is, "A life where hard work and sweat can mean a better life for you and your family." Perhaps your plan is to sit with your hand out and wait for a "baby-kissing" politician to fill it. Those folks in the later group will take us all down. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, and quit buying into this class warfare B.S.!
It is interesting to blame 70 years of government malfeasance on 4 years of Tea Partiers.
"95% of the people we talk to agree with us." Bwah ha ha.
Mann and Ornstein criticize both Democrats & Republicans who reject the "regular order". When we are $16 Trillion, isn't that exactly what we need.
Finally!! Many of us have known this for a long time, and I give Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein high marks for their honesty. I've long thought of Norm Ornstein as more of a conservative partisan, and this is a welcome challenge to that impression of him. We really need people like Thomas and Norman who will call it as it is, regardless of which party / leaning it comes from. Thanks guys, and thanks Diane
Libertarians r us wrote:
"You do not have a clue what a libertarian government looks like."
Yeah we do....Somolia.
Like it....move there. No government, no services, and if you have enough money (warlord) you keep yourself alive by having your own private army.
Agreed. Libertarianism = No Government=Chaos (and worse). I had never really thought of libertarianism that way, but you're absolutely right. I had seriously considered a libertarian government in the 90s. But I finally figured out that it meant no government, which would lead to total chaos.
It's hard to take serious people who hate capitalism and love totalitarian government as arbitrators on what libertarianism represents. It would be like asking Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler their views on freedom of speech and personal gun rights.
I agree 100% with the authors. Please, someone tell me how to make a difference. I've almost lost hope that we can ever fix this system. I applaud the Diane Rehm for giving the authors the opportunity to address the problem.
This morning's first hour, Its Worse...etc, clinches it for me.
Never have I heard such partisan direction from Diane Rehm as today. And never such a whiny complaint ridden rhetoric from the studio guests. A caller challenged the notion of Democratic fairness in describing the lack of cooperation and consensus on the Patient Protection and Affordable Health Care plan. The guest responeded with a dismissive generalization that the Democrats haven't always been fair, but....'
Mann and Ornstein, like so many inside the beltway, just don't get it. Who reissued the Patriot Act ? Who promised more transparency, and has consistently abandoned that promise ?
If there has been an overreaction by voters and their Republican representatives it is because no one is listening to the sound of freedom being smashed away by this administration.
The solution is not going to be pleasant. We have been taught for many decades that there are no limits to anything. If it can be imagined, it can happen. This quite simply isn't true; there are limits to everything. As an example, several years ago I heard the CEO of a major oil company discussing a supposed oil shortage. He said that there was no oil shortage. BUT---the best available research indicates that, most likely, all of the "easily accessible" oil has been found and is currently being pumped. He then stated that from now on, oil will be more and more difficult to get to, and will continue to rise in price.
If the truth were known, technology, while it has created new jobs, has led to the elimination of more jobs than it has created. At the same time, the world population is continuing to rise. No form of "ism", libertarianism or otherwise, will change this.
There are those who say that we have reached the "max", and from here on out, the world standard of living will continue to fall for an indefinite period of time to a more sustainable level. The adjustment will be painful, but we have no choice.
Only time will show whether or not this is true, but I am inclned to believe that it is. It is more believable than any other scenario I've heard.
gary k wrote:" This quite simply isn't true; there are limits to everything.'
There appears to be no limits on ignorance and stupidity or the belief by many that government can solve all problems with the right wealth redistribution scheme.
My view is that we are witnessing the reaction of politics taking on a life of its own. Politicians are now elected, not to represent the people, but to build a career based on tribalism. A study of history shows that compromise is the key ingredient to resolutions that push us forward toward success. When loyalty to a political party has greater importance than service to the nation, we have a problem.
The only people who are ignorant and stupid are those who can't deal with reality. Such as the reality that power and money are synonymous. If you have power in this world, you also have money. Power is the universal value; the ability to "lord it over" most of the world's population. You could even argue that it is the ultimate drug.
President Obama was not well known prior to running for the presidency and the well-known, undisputed fact that the Republican Congressional delegation before he did one thing in office said their priority would be not serving their constituents, not serving the country, but defeating him, and the rhetoric directed against him and worse yet against our government has brought me to the sad agonizing conclusion that yes racism is not only still alive but raging in our country and that there are actually people here who should be on trial for treason and they are collecting paychecks from the government they are trying to undermine. I pray more people like these gentleman and the press have the courage to expose them and that those of us who love this country and believe in it will turn out to vote against those who really are trying to undo everything our founding fathers set in place. The very things btw that people all over the world try to copy.
Where were all the Tea Partiers when Bush43 was running up the national debt by some $6.1 trillion? Seems to me the Tea Party was very quite during Bush's two terms.
Tnx for the chuckle (that you always offer both sides of political issues). It was particularly telling that the host and your bleeding heart liberals didn't address the issue of cost. I started off yrs ago wanting all those nice amenities for the poor, but then we approached 50% not paying taxes - an ah-ha moment. Then Greece became the poster child of our future. We should only spend what we take in and with +/-50% not contributing to the federal budget, it is inappropriate to raise taxes on those of us already paying.
Do you contribute to charities each yr like I do. They are so deserving, why didn't you give more? Because you felt you couldn't afford it, right?
Same for the feral budget. It is not that the causes are not meritorious. It is that we don't have enough money to fund them - and we know there is considerable waste and abuse. Tnx for listening.
Ralphdraw3: If you recall there was a strong anti deficit/anti debt movement in the 90's spearheaded by Ross Perot. It could be argued that deficit hawks handed the election to a democrat in 1992, Bill Clinton. Although republicans and democrats take credit for a brief period of fiscal sanity it would not have happened without Ross Perot's insurgency into the political debate. If your under the impression fiscal hawks were not outraged at Bushes spending, your either ignorant of the outcry or deliberately misstating the facts.
Here's a 2004 article stating as much, if you care to uncover the truth there is much to be found on the topic. By the way the "Tea Party" did not exist under that name until the final outrage of government intrusion into our lives, the straw that broke the camels back, Obama-care.
http://www.economist.com/node/2335473
Mann and Ornstein are right on about the media's obsession with impartiality. "Scientists say Moon is made of rock. Mother Goose says it's made of green cheese. Does the truth lie somewhere in between? Full coverage at eleven!"
Dear Diane and producers,
i'm listening to ornstein and mann in ny. Diane just asked isn't it just a difference in philosophy that the 2 parties are so far apart--if she can be so naive to ask that, after interviewing political guests for years? Is this the best a public media non commercial show host can ask? Is Diane so clueless that she thinks this is just political jousting like in past decades? There is too much balancing of the 2 sides on Rehm's shows ....as Mann said...A balanced treatment of an unbalanced politics just further distorts it.
The gop isn't properly challenged but interviewed as just another viewpoint, with it's dangers to the majority left unexplored. Thus the public doesn't connect the dots from the gop to it's own problems,thus laying blame to the right party. The media enables their scam to work.
I don't like our current President either, and I could provide a list of reasons why, not one that has anything to do with his race, creed, or color. But in the end, I just get labeled a "racist" for speaking out against "the messiah"! I know this isn't a perfect world, and never will be. But I'll do my part in November to end this "charade" of "change you can believe in"! lmao!
The gop has been leading the mainstream media by the nose, leading to confused voters not understanding their own interests. Diane is trying to blame the voters? What molds voter opinion! If even the public media doesn't challenge extreme destructive gop views, but just stays 'balanced', then it gives more plausibility to these views to voters. They think, it can't be that bad if even Npr doesn't challenge enough. Ornstein is right, the moderate media is disarming the public by not criticizing the right wing adequately.
Commercial media tries to give false equivilency to fool the public because it's a corporate monopoly pushing right wing views as being the center----but public supported media has a public duty to counteract this. Instead, it often follows the commercial media, -- because npr relies on congress for funding, and is scared of right wing wrath.
And with npr corporate sponsors, it's really public in name only. Sponsors hide behind the public in the name, and exert pressure to make equivilent the 2 parties and points of view.This confuses and misleads voters. They don't know what right and left means and which part of the spectrum relates to their needs. They're vulnerable to any right wing gop assertion they can dream up, and npr is contributing to this.
Your friday news roundup has been unlistenable due to trying to downplay what the gop is really doing, trying to seem objective, balanced and fair to both sides, and i've abandoned it.Can't stomach listening to it anymore. The gop are , causing our paralyzed and downward spiraling democracy and economy. Can you find a way to face this reality in interviewing?
ellenb: you are really a comedian, right? you say all media is rightist! OMG! Obviously fox is, but no other. Regardless, let's go back to basics. If almost half are paying no fed tax, how can we afford to keep doing what we are doing? Should we keep doing what we are doing until we become Greece when we declare bankruptcy and offer 25% payout on bonds, and no one will continue fund our deficit? Why can't you and other people be logical? Is it really fair that half don't pay?
libertarians r us
I've been reading your comments (or rather, your knee-jerk responses to every opinion which opposes your own beliefs). I'm sure you will use the predictable tactic of calling someone like me a "hypocrite" on some imaginary level, but your intransigent adherence to "libertarian" ideology is what this conversation is inherently about...you spout off your beliefs based on the particular ideology you embrace, which tries to come off as critical thinking...and it's anything BUT! Learn to think beyond "liberal vs conservative vs libertarian vs whatever." Your mind in trapped in narrow dogma, which creates dualistic camps of thinking...which holds the country hostage. THIS is the crux of the argument Mann puts forth. Policy should be based on pragmatism...what's needed, not what's believed.