Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein: "It's Even Worse Than It Looks"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-05-07/thomas-mann-and-norman-ornstein-its-even-worse-it-looks
Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein join Diane to talk about their new book and why they think Congress has become more partisan and dysfunctional than at any other time in history.
Guests
Thomas Mann
senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and co-author of "It's Even Worse Than It Looks."
Norman Ornstein
resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
Comments
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I'm sure were in for the usual Tea Party bashing, it's odd how we don't hear the comments from the host and callers how angry the occupy movement is like we did about the Tea party when they were protesting. Anyone that thinks "compromise" is an option with a political party that demonizes even the most minuscule cut in government spending is the real fool. Compromise has brought us our 16 trillion dollar debt and a dependency minded middle class. I do not see any possibility of solving any serious fiscal problem with our current leadership. Barrack Obama without a doubt is the most despicable president of my life time. His rhetoric of mean spirited class, race and gender dividing politics is something for the history books. We need leadership from the top to accomplish anything and having a villain as president is not helping. Truly the problem lies with the people who voted Obama in, how is it a man with zero qualifications was seen as an agent of change for the better. Better candidate's were tossed aside for an American Idolish boob tube celebrity, the election of Barrack Obama our first black president was nothing more than a empty fashion statement.
President George W. Bush's administration was handed a strong economy but his administration chose to start an unnecessary war with no plan to pay for it, passed a massive tax cut which again was unpaid for, and passed an unfunded prescription drug bill. To avoid an economic disaster, Bush pushed the massive Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 his last year in office. President Barack Obama was handed an economy nearly in ruins and the Republicans have done an amazing job of not only blaming him for it, but also of obstructing efforts to accelerate the economy's improvement. I agree that Obama would have benefited from more time in office serving in an administrative role - which is a good argument for a second term. During a second term he will be less likely to waste time trying to cooperate with politicians who clearly want only to stifle progress and he would be more effective at getting the economy back on a solid footing as President Clinton left it.
dmisen, George Bush is no longer president! I was not praising George Bush in anyway. Is that what we do now, go back in time to cast a favorable light on the present. Telling me I had pancreatic cancer four years ago makes the brain cancer I have today feel better? If we are cursed with a second Obama term there will be total gridlock. Obama ignored his OWN Simpson Bowles deficit commission two years ago, it obviously was only a time wasting ploy to pretend he was doing something about the deficit. Obama had a chance like Bill Clinton did to work with a republican congress but instead chose a path division, sowing the seeds of hatred and contempt among the electorate. He has been campaigning since 2010, he knows how to run for office but that's all he knows. The presidents 2013 budget had NO support from democrats, Harry Reid has not submitted a budget in three years. Why? simple if anyone got a clear eyed view of where the democrats want to go with federal government spending they would lose the senate. The only thing offered by the democrat party in 2012 are lies, hate and exploding deficit's into infinity, thanks but no thanks.
This year`s State of the Union Address said it all for me. Every Republican sat politely on their hands,when President Obama suggested efforts to return American jobs from Communist China.
When the American worker is labeled a 'Special Interest Group' by right wing extremists,and the T-Party protects greedy Corporations and the profits produced by these Traitorous deeds.Americans MUST be divided. You are either FOR America,or FOR Communist China.
All is NOT well because the dividend check is FAT !
I've decided not to write anything beyond this complaint because some egoists here are so self-important they assume anything posted is a response to their simplistic, canned robo-calling. I assume it would be customary to let your well thought out remarks stand on their own merits. There are better venues for combative arguing than the thoughtful and tolerant Diane Rehm Show. Go there.
Since he or she did click on the "reply" for my first post thus freezing it, I think I can assume it was a REPLY!
Your one to talk about self importance and combative arguments. I remember times where you spent entire days name calling and insulting posters here.
There are 6 posts including this one so far, out of those six which one seeks to insult someone? If all you can do is insult there are better venues for that. Go there.
Pancake, thank you so much for your post. It needed to be said. If one's purpose is to educate it certainly is not done by attacking the individual's thoughts or ideas. It would be to make your points in a reasonable rational manner to invoke thought.
At the heart of political extremism are social issues, which issues act like the human heart pumping energy and vigor into both political sides. Republicans would jump on board with democrats to push for higher taxes to help children, the elderly, and the poor. However, when the federal government grows there seems to be a corresponding growth in the federal government's intervention into issues of abortion and homosexual marriage. If the federal government is going to liberalize abortions and homosexual marriage, then, I believe, rebpublicans would rather do away with both the federal government's regulatory power and discretionary spending.
Point 1: No Shared responsibility for ALL to pitch in to right this Ship of State, our Country. The Queen stayed in London during the Blitz submitted herself to everyone's food rations and dressed simply. Republicans determined to give rich more by taking from the poor.
Point2: Business sense?: Governor Romney boasts of business sense to create environment to support business.Yet, last summer, Republicans, McConnell, Boehner and Cantor, refused to raise the debt limit unless their priorities were cemented into budget. Business sense would say: "First things first, raise the limit now to avoid a credit rating downgrade. Resolve budget disagreements later. " Republicans refused to raise the debt limit, we got a downgrade and it costs everyone.
Keystone Cop Economics or Cynicism and Spitefulness or both?
Point 3: Democracy Upheld?: Republicans going after vulnerable people, people who are senior citizens white and Black to prove they're citizens and denizens with hard to get documentation, e.g., requiring birth certificates from eighty year old Blacks from the South (Florida, Georgia, etc.) when everyone knows how poorly those records were kept. Democratic ideals? What would those at Arlington call these actions?
Republicans have signed Mr. Norquist's pledge to not increase taxes or be shunned by their own party members and shorn of Republican dollars. They seem to take this very seriously. At this point in time, it seems that Republicans have decided that in order to provide support for social programs, they simply cut from other social programs depending on what they view as the top priority.
Most, if not all politicians are "on the take". Should we be surprised? You wouldn't be if you knew American History. An example from the past: In 1860, at the start of the Republican convention, Lincoln sent a message to his campaign manager requesting that he not make any promises to anyone that would be binding. The campaign manager's reply to a friend, after reading the message, was "Lincoln ain't here, and he don't know what we have to meet."
You might as well face facts, folks. We have had a corrupt government since the founding of the Republic. Corruption in government has existed since the beginning of human history. It will always be with us. The only thing you can do is pass laws against it. And then what happens? You find that the law enforcement has also been corrupted! The root problem was, is, and always will be human nature; the one problem that can't be solved. Except by very extreme measures. Think about it.
Norman Ornstein is the in house pet liberal at the American Enterprise Institute who they let out of his cage once in a while to lament the free market, conservatives, and the like. I’m not sure why groups like the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute ever allow their supposed scholars to team up with the Brookings Institute, but whenever they do it results in intellectual underwear stains for both organizations
“It is a soft form of the liberal fascism about which I’ve been warning. The GOP must be painted as extremist by the press, their point of view must be painted as fringe, and they must be shut up because they are too damn successful."
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/04/30/norman-ornstein-to-the-press-co...
I agree with the post indicating the Diane Rehm show should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding just about any topic, based on the show's long history of responsible presentation of fact - truly "fair and balanced". Diane has done a marvelous job requiring all points of view to be stated in mature, polite terms. She chides participants for untoward comments, regardless of their political bent.
I also respectfully submit that actual criticism of a show's content should be withheld at least until the show is presented - until the specific points are there to be discussed. Presuming in advance that it will just be tilted one way or another is downright UNfair.
In fact, presuming what will be presented probably confirms what these two authors are proposing.
It is a relief to me to hear someone finally identifying the pink elephant in the room! From the beginning of President Obama's tenure the Republicans were very clear that their only goal was to defeat Obama for a second term and to prevent him from passing any legislation, and that is exactly what they have done.
Judy Sidden (pronounced like "Hidden")
amen and amen... these guys are nailing it and it makes republicans squirm, a trait that truth seems to have on us all. Own it republicans, its the first step to recovery.
The GOP may be the cause of Government dysfunction because they are masters of disinformation. They take an issue, everyone is on message . It is repeated over and over and over by everyone. No one waivers from the message. These message however more often than not tend to be a lie or fear mongering message. Add to that the LOW EFFORT THINKING by middle and lower middle class GOP you have a table set for ruin.
The parliamentary government system in Canada ain't perfect either. The right wing Conservative party got only 38% of the votes but won a majority of the individual riding elections to get their majority. 62% of the rest of votes were split between 3 of the political parties that are center or left leaning. Therefore, a majority of voters have no power in the governing of Canada.
The Conservative party has also introduced controversial changes to the way Canada is governed but putting the changes in a budget bill - budget bills are not debated in the legislature.
Norm Ornstein: The GOP "is engaged in tribal politics."
And that's the bottom line.
-- MrJM
Is the extremism in the Republican party being manipulated by the 0.1% to their advantage in order to get Republicans elected?
Can your guests comment on to what extent they believe the two party system has had on how our politics have evolved with elements of extremism? I have often said that this country would look different if they voted their behavior and their authentic beliefs, rather than aligning themselves with parties. I personally know individuals who do not support abortion, but have utilized that right in order to obtain an abortion for fear of being ostracized by their families, friends and churches when they were in a place to have a child out of wedlock. With hardline strategies in place such as Grover Norquist's Tax Pledge, it makes it difficult for everyone on both sides to negotiate issues that involve the well being of our country.
It's the voters' fault? Maybe -- but do we really get the government that we deserve or is the system rigged in favor of corporate capitalism?
I vote regularly, but it's usually in (vain) hopes of preventing some monstrosity from being elected or some travesty from being enacted.
In a year when the candidacies of the president and his presumptive challenger are both being greeted with muted enthusiasm at best I'd like to know how your authors think that our politics would be changed if voters had the option to choose 'None of the above'.
What is funny to me is the GOP war on women. War on Hispanics. War on gays so please tell me who is left??? Old white men and the ignorant..great base.
What is not being discussed is the influence of libertarian philosophies towards government that are permeating the GOP. Many are finding the federal government is wasteful and destructive in the extreme when it comes to the economy and personal freedom. I am sure my first posts would have gone over a lot better if I was fawning over Obama's socialism. Too bad the conservatives that do post here from time to time are too lazy to stick up for themselves. This show savages conservative and libertarian ideas on a daily basis.
I am a 65 year old white woman who believed we had become a mature nation the day President Obama was inaugurated. Then Mitch McConnell immediately declared that his only goal was to defeat President Obama (before the President had done a single thing)----and I realized racism was still alive and well at the highest levels of our government. That can be the only explanation. Can't McConnell and his band of thugs be impeached for dereliction of duty? They have not worked for the best interests of their constituents. Their only goal has been to thwart every idea and program Obama presents, even if it was originally a Republican idea!
I am so glad Mr. Mann and Mr. Ornstein have finally addressed this sorry state of affairs. I hope it is not too late.
LOL a libertarian, asking for leadership...
There are countries throughout the world practicing socialism and communism, two socio-political ideologies which aren't suppose to work, dictatorships and monarchies that oppress and subjugate their people, warlords that plunder and pillage their own lands, but nowhere is anyone foolish enough to practice libertarianism.
Well, aside from Somalia, and we see how well that's working out...
The 2010 election, was not a "massive" election of conservatives. They won the House from the democrats, they did not take the Senate. This is the fallacy of the right, there was no mandate in 2010. There was a "we don't like the situation, lets' see what you can do", a far cry from "Implement your plan we really really like it"
Doesn't this come down to the fact that since the beginning of Obama's term, the Republicans have made it clear that they want to remove Obama and make certain that he is not reelected. I have never heard such transparency (with no subtly) from Republicans and worst of all from a Speaker of the House, who supposedly serves all Americans, republican and democrat, regarding his desire to assure the demise of the current President. As an American (and independent), I find Speaker Bohner's posture offensive and unpatriotic.
How much of what your guests are saying is merely reflective of our current society? Synthesizing from other shows, it seems apparent that we're more polarized as a society, less willing to listen to and understand opposing viewpoints, and less willing to compromise on what has moved from philosophical disagreement to ideological disagreement. We've reached a point where we don't need to even hear opinions that are different from our own (Fox News, MSNBC, the echo chamber of the Internet). Why should we expect Congress to not reflect these same societal shortcomings?
sacchinft wrote:
"LOL a libertarian, asking for leadership..."
You do not have a clue what a libertarian government looks like. If your interested in learning anything study up on what the founders had in mind at the birth of our nation. Read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and then you will understand libertarianism applied to government.
While both authors are intelligent men who make good points, Mr. Ornstein's comment about Democrats willing to compormise on "shibboleths" such as Medicare and Social Security thres into stark relief how the mainstream media ,including NPR have framed the discourse so that genuine Left Wing views are marginalized in national and social discourse. What Mr. ornstein sees as a plus for the Dems, I see as pandering for conservative support. Further disturbing is how market rhetoric has ingrained itself into the conversation. Obama is the highest executive officer of the United States, he is not a' "brand" as Thomas Mann labeled him like he was a soap detergent. I am a CITIZEN, not a mere consumer.