Apple and Working Conditions in Overseas Factories
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-04-02/apple-and-working-conditions-overseas-factories
In this May 26, 2010 file photo, staff members work on the production line at the Foxconn complex in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen, southern China. A pledge reported Thursday, March 29, 2012 by the manufacturer of Apple's iPhones and iPads to limit work hours at its factories in China could force other global corporations to hike pay for Chinese workers who produce the world's consumer electronics, toys and other goods. Foxconn Technology's promise comes as Beijing is pushing foreign companies to share more of their revenues with Chinese employees.
(AP Photo/Kin Cheung, File)
Foxconn, a major manufacturer of Apple products in China, has promised to raise worker wages and cut overtime hours. A recent review by the Fair Labor Association found evidence of widespread labor issues at three factories in China operated by the Taiwanese based company. As an ever greater share of manufacturing shifts to cheaper labor markets around the world, Foxconn, and the technology industry in general is coming under the kind of scrutiny faced by overseas apparel and show manufacturers in the 1990’s. Please join us to discuss new concerns about international labor standards in the 21st century global supply chain
Guests
Auret van Heerdon
president and chief executive, Fair Labor Association
Robert Scott
is an international economist and director of international programs at the Economic Policy Institute.
C. Fred Bergsten
director of the Peterson Institute for International Economics and author of "China's Rise."
Judy Gearhart
executive director, International Labor Rights Forum
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
It is my understanding that much of what has been reported to date was complete fiction, generated by a performance artist from Seattle, the report masquerading as journalism.
It`s mysterious to me why we fought the Korean and Vietnam Wars,which cost the lives of more than 100,000 Americans.To turn around and surrender to Communism is just plain crazy.Why are we allowing our JOBS,WEALTH,AND FUTURE to be exported because of corporate greed? Don`t come crying to me about human right abuses in Chinese sweat shops,when Americans who were displaced are hungry and homeless.
@StLouis: Where do you understand that from?
It is my understanding that the NYT, built a compelling case about FoxConn's labor relations without using any info from Mike Daisey.
That's what real journalism can do.
And Apple responded with the PR it's known for, running to the WSJ for access "journalism".
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-...
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-17/tech/31069946_1_apple-s-p...
So, Apple is the only one doing this? Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung and the dozens of other manufactories that sell us electronic products - all of these build in clean, green factories?
Please explain why Apple is the only one mentioned?
I worked for a major American manufacturer for almost 20 years. I started out working four 12-hour and two 8-hour shifts for six months. That's a total of 64 hours per week. Then I worked a period of 2 years of 40 hour weeks. Then I went back on working 50-60 hours per week for the next 15 years. So slave labor doesn't exist just in China. The upside was I made a lot of money. The downside is that it has injured my health.
But this is the New World Order in it's formative stages. Can you imagine what it will be like in a couple of generations? I'll be one of the lucky ones at least, as I won't be involved in it.
That report was scuttled due to fact checking by the journalists who were considering presenting it. Fact checking, done by good journalists who are proud of their trade.
Even though I live on an extremely modest income I would GLADLY pay more for my electronics if I knew the money went to ensure fair living wages and working conditions for the people who produce those items. I DO NOT want my convenience and luxury items to come at the cost of others' quality of life.
What happens when the workers who create our devices are Facebook friends? Will they ask us for more money directly? Will they ask us why we are stealing from them, their potential wages, their health? Will it be worth the heartache and headache to listen to our friends appeal to us directly?
Why is it legal to create jobs that either are unable to meet the human needs of workers and to also create profits? If the wages and benefits do not meet human needs, then these jobs are a drag on the society and economy compared to if the wages were sufficient. Also, inhumane wages promotes inefficiency.
Whether apples from orchards with brutal working conditions or Apple shiny devices, our enjoyment of the final product should never be at an unnecessary cost to our society.
Daniel Bennett
Washington, DC
This is a big move for Apple, if they actually carry it out. Even if they didn't take this move, Apple's dedicated consumer base would have continued to re-buy the same products every 8-14 months. This is a move that could only have been detrimental to their bottom line.
I have owned three apple computers. I am on my third iphone and my wife has an ipad. I read that Steve Jobs said to President Obama that manufacturing was lost in the US because the market demanded super quick response, and he could not get it here. I for one would be more than willing to get my next apple product a couple of weeks or months later if they could be made in this country.
China is now experiencing our 1950's baby boom experience. That's when the unions really came into play because that's when abuses started to be publicly identified. It's almost as if we're watching our history playing out in our future.
China is a slave state; always has been. All the talk won't change a thing. The Chinese are quite happy with their economic model. And they are very happy with the rest of the world, whom they consider to be suckers.
I'm a NASA researcher and have been following Apple and their rise over the past decade as well as the semiconductor manufacturing industry as a whole. Apple is in a unique position that they could lead a resurgence in high tech manufacturing in this country, gain unmatchable good will, improve their time to market, and hold the bottom line. Everyone of my friends in the robotics industry and labs here at NASA say that the Apple iPod and iPad line of products are PERFECTLY designed for robotic assembly. The wage difference would be more than offset by moving some production to the US! THIS is a no brainer.
Here is my (condensed, incomplete) understanding of how the recent furure came about: a monologuist named Mike Daisey created a show called The Agony and Ecstasy of Steve Jobs based on the discrepancy between the obsessive affection many Apple fans have for their devices and the relative misery of the people on the manufacturing lines that build them. When This American Life, distributed on many NPR outlets by American Public Media adapted Daisey's show as an episode of their program, it became one of its most popular. A reporter in China for APM's Marketplace noticed inconsistencies in Daisy's narrative, and TAL devoted a subsequent episode to a retractiion and examination of their lapse in fact-checking. Daisey maintained that his show is a dramatic work and that his mistake was turning it into a radio show that demanded a journalistic standard of fidelity to facts. You can find that episode here, along with other expository links:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction (If you'd like a real eye-opener, check out this week's episode about how money actually works in politics: it's even worse than you thought.)
Patsy, the reason that there are so many of us out of work here in the U.S. is that the "free marketeers" convinced our government to allow domestic companies to sell us products that are manufactured and grown under conditions overseas unions and environmentalists fought and bled to eradicate here. Under NAFTA and globalization, it's become a race to the bottom with tycoons reaping all the benefits of U.S. workers' increased productivity.
RE the caller's and panelists' comments about 'protecting US workers' rights and capping overtime'.....
Americans are free to leave their current employment if they are unhappy, and seek it elsewhere. If there isn't a pool of workers willing to work so many hours for so much pay, employers will have to change. The free market will prevail. It does not require policy or government intervention.
I wonder how many of the people protesting the brutal child sweat shops of Nike and Reebox are communicating with each other on Apple products?
I also find it interesting that Apple has recently announced that they have almost $100 billion in cash they are looking to do something with. Anyone have any ideas........?
so what's your point in six words?
The one thing that I never hear mentioned in discussions of this type, are the outrageous profit margins that companies , such as Apple command. Were the shareholders of these major global corporations willing to accept a more reasonable rate of return, perhaps goods would be less expensive, and workers would be less taken advantage of. I am not against profit. It is essential to remaining in business. Unfortunately, not enough of the profits are being reinvested in the form of R&D, maintenance, and employee wages and benefits. The luxury market in this country, and worldwide, IS NOT SUFFERING throughout these rough economic times. The energy companies poorly maintain their delivery systems, while posting record profits to it's shareholders, they take government subsidies, and still rape us on the cost of fuel. They hold the economy hostage to a measurable degree, but as long as the profits flow to the wealthy and powerful, we will pay and pay and pay. We have to demand changes in the way our economy functions. The changes begins with ourselves. The purchases we choose to make, and just as importantly, not make, ARE market forces. Speak up and be heard!!
Why is Apple taking so much of the heat on this issue ?- I agree with the earlier comment, and add that it isn't just electronics that are manufactured in China - or the products found in Walmart. What about the products from Pottery Barn? Macy's? Target? even greeting cards are often made in China. Does anyone really believe that all these different products come from clean, green factories? People should start looking at the country of origin labels on all the things they buy before they start throwing stones.
Elaina,
Who's point?
I'm putting my comment here since I didn't get a chance to on air: a boycott of products is not the only way to effect changes. Most important is to let the companies know you care about working conditions and environmental damage, that you know of their violations, and expect them to do better, and will change your buying habits to reflect what you know about their practices. Once you have done that, if you can't boycott a product you can slow down the frequency of your purchases by keeping your equipment in good repair and being a late adopter instead of an early one.
A big way we could make life better for Apple product workers is to take the pressure off during new product rollouts. It would be great if Apple could create an on-line wait list of people who want to buy their product where we spec the store we want to pick it up from, then instead of standing in line at stores in a mob scene, we could take a virtual number and the stores could let us know when they have our product ready for us to pick it up. This would mean that worker overtime could be kept under 60hrs/wk instead of 80hrs/wk, meaning less errors in our products, and less standing time for Apple customers, a win-win.
Yes the problem with Apple products is probably even worse with all other "made in China" products, but Apple charges a premium, so we can expect them to care about keeping their customers happy and we can ask them to lead the way in worker and environmental protections. The more we force conditions in China to get better through regulations & enforcement, the greater the chance that some of those jobs will come back to the USA. If we don't hold corps accountable for their practices globally, they will continue to take jobs to the countries that have the least worker & environmental protection regulations and the USA will be forced to dismantle our protections to compete in a race to the bottom.
My question as well. Just in case it was mine:
Story's true. Industrialism kills. Capitalism cheats.
The extent of Mike Daisey's lies was simply to take true news releases about Foxconn abuses and to claim to have seen them personally "for dramatic effect". The kind of Foxconn abuses that occurred is not under dispute, it just wasn't so widespread that he could see all of the abuse by visiting just 1-3 factories in a single week. If he had just let people know that he was taking dramatic license & weaving together his own experiences with recorded news events, there wouldn't have been such a stink about his play, and the radio show producers wouldn't have presented his play as truth.
You're missing some key points here.
For those of you here who post and say China's a slave state, what evidence do you base that on? Have you actually been there and seen this for yourself? I lived in Asia for ten years and have been to China twice. Many Chinese have moved to the cities for a better life. Why is it so hard to understand that they want many of the same comforts that we have? If you go there, not all but many people might be reluctant to tell you their true opinions. Yet, in private some feel comfortable enough to share their concerns.
One reason this has taken so long to be talked about is the Apple "mystique". Steve Jobs was "The Guy Who Could Do No Wrong". It was almost like listening to Greenspan. When he spoke the whole world stopped. It's the celeb megahype culture that's getting in the way of dealing with lots of critical issues (climate change, the global economy and more).
We're one of the most fiscally irresponsible countries in the world. Yet, we criticize China (who is still our #1 creditor)? What's wrong with this picture?
When I need work done at my house (painting, lawn care, new floors), I give the work to the cheapest bid from the contractor who can provide the level of quality I expect. I never think 'I really should accept the more expensive contract so that that guy can enjoy a higher quality life.' Similarly, companies should be allowed to contract their work out to the cheapest provider who produces the quality they demand. If consumers think people anywhere in the world are working for inferior pay, they can send them a personal check. I understand regulating safe working conditions, but not hours and pay. The market should decide that.
You want your toys deal with the costs, both financial and ethical. You want to make changes vote with your wallet and they will change.
Why so much focus on Apple when Sony, HP, Dell, and other electronics companies use Foxconn, too? My conspiracy theory is that since Steve Jobs died, Apple is under attack.
The leaders of our country should've protected our workers by keeping US companies on US ground rather than leaving our citizens without jobs, homeless in devastated towns. Henry Ford had the right idea -- pay the workers well enough that they can enjoy the fruits of their labors.
Patsy Nomore wrote:
"It`s mysterious to me why we fought the Korean and Vietnam Wars,which cost the lives of more than 100,000 Americans.To turn around and surrender to Communism is just plain crazy.Why are we allowing our JOBS,WEALTH,AND FUTURE to be exported because of corporate greed? Don`t come crying to me about human right abuses in Chinese sweat shops,when Americans who were displaced are hungry and homeless."
Oh Patsy! I can answer all your questions.
We are not exporting all our jobs, wealth, and future because of "corporate greed". We are exporting all our jobs, wealth, and future, because corporations are in business to make money for their investors. Understand that. Internalize it. Corporations are not in business to make a better society, though that can be a side product. Corporations are not in business to provide a living for their employees, though that can be a side product as well. Corporations are in business to make money. Period.
They will do that the most efficient way possible.
Now sometimes, it is in a company’s best interests to be good corporate citizens, and when it is, they will be. But they will not do it “to be nice” or under threat of punishment. Under threat of punishment, they will find another way, and that is what has happened to American business in the last 30 to 40 years.
When union laborers (in the automobile industry, for example) are paid $60/hour for $35 worth of work, that is not efficient. Manufacturing overseas is more efficient. When businesses look at their tax liabilities, they will look to the country whose taxing structure is the most efficient for them.
Right underneath “Corporations are in business to make money”, put “Labor markets and taxing structures are now global”. That fact has had perhaps the biggest effect on American economic life in our country’s history.
Part deux.
People like President Obama, Timothy Geithner, Ben Bernanke simply have not internalized these facts. Now, underneath “Corporations are in business to make money”, and “Labor markets and taxing structures are now global”, add, “These things are here to say and will not ever change.”
So … a government has two choices. It can swim against the tide of the immovable object of principle that “Corporations are in business to make money”, or it can adjust to the fact that we exist in an environment of world labor markets and world taxing structures and do what we can to lure businesses and their profits home instead of punishing businesses with high labor rates (brought about by unions and other government policy) and high taxes. In other words, we must use carrots instead of sticks. When it is more conducive for businesses to manufacture in communist countries than it is here, that’s got to tell you that something is wrong at home. Think about it, Patsy.