Trayvon Martin and Race Relations in America
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-03-26/trayvon-martin-and-race-relations-america
On Friday President Obama said, "If i had a son, he’d look like Trayvon." Though the President didn’t specifically mention race in his comments, race has been the discussion since the death of the Florida teenager made news. Trayvon Martin was shot and killed one month ago today by a white Hispanic man. George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, said he shot the teen in self defense. Police cited Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law as one reason they didn’t arrest him. Diane and her panel discuss the questions the killing of Trayvon Martin raises about state laws and race relations in America.
Guests
Donna Britt
author of "Brothers (and Me): A Memoir of Loving and Giving," journalist and former syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.
Isabel Wilkerson
a Pulitzer-Prize-winning journalist, author of "The Warmth of Other Suns."
Anthony Cook
Professor of Law at Georgetown, teaches courses in constitutional law, civil rights and African-American critical thought
David Ovalle
reporter for the Miami Herald
Comments
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My question is, does the "Stand Your Ground" law remain valid when the shooter is actually pursuing his alleged attacker?
If Zimmerman had stood down, as the dispatcher asked, I think we have to assume (as evidenced by the information Trayvon's girlfriend provided) that Trayvon would have run home and no altercation would have occurred.
Do your guests think President Obama's comment about "if he had a boy..." was dangerously racially devisive?
Dianne, this story breaks my heart. Were handguns not so prevalent in our culture and communities, maybe both men would have gone home nursing a bloody nose. Instead, one young man is dead and another well-meaning but misguided citizen will most likely spend the rest of his life in the shadow of a mistake that cannot be undone.
Dianne, this story breaks my heart. Were handguns not so prevalent in our culture and communities, maybe both men would have gone home nursing a bloody nose. Instead, one young man is dead and another well-meaning but misguided citizen will most likely spend the rest of his life in the shadow of a mistake that cannot be undone.
JamieT,
You lost me at "National Review".
I am curious about the reactions of this case with White parents who've adopted black children (specifically boys). I wonder if they've had the "talk" with their sons, or if they feel exempt from having it. The country has changed a lot since the time of Jim Crow, and I'm sure this story hits home with a lot more people and not just Black people.
As a white mail in my 50's I'm concerned how one radical zealot police wannabe can put all causasin people in the same caste as this guy. How is it that every time one of the fanatics does something immoral and absolutely unacceptable that we begin to talk about how all white people are racists?! Isn't it possible that crazy "people", not white people, do crazy things?
This a a tradegy but...
Don't most young black men/boys get killed by other back men/boys in the USA?
Dont most back people die from curable deseases all over the would?
Why dont we adress the above with the same hype? My answer is that the Martin family is being used by people trying to further their own selfish case or careers/politial power.
Unfortunately, what is being lost in this discussion is that the victim was a child. Not a black child, white child, poor child, or rich child - he was a child. The world has cast another minor into the grave do the senseless actions of an adult environment that is supposed "to know better." We as a nation continue to find new and inventive ways to violate the rights of our children, and as a father of two teenagers, I find it appaling. Who knows what this child was capable of doing with his life? Violence against children is not new, be it physical, mental, or sexual, it has gone on for too long and it needs to stop! We blame alot on the actions of young people and seldom ask what did WE do to cause it, and what are WE doing to stop it from happening again.
To Monica G:
I doubt it, but why are you so sure Trayvon was innocently walking home? Perhaps he was looking to do a quick break in instead. The neighborhood had been the scene of multiple thefts.
There was no chance the police could get there in a heartbeat which means you are asking the neighborhood to take their chances, yet again. That's hardly American. We've never stood still for being victims.
If there had consequently been a break in, you are asking Zimmerman to say "Well, I did see someone who didn't look like they were from the neighborhood, but I didn't get a good look at his face, and was told to not make sure he wasn't making trouble."
Why have a 'neighborhood watch' at all?
It is incomprehensible that this "neighborhood watch" person has not even been detained for questioning. He was told by the police when he called in to NOT pursue the supposed intruder. Neighborhood watch training tells them NOT to carry guns and to leave pursuit and detention of a suspected intruder to the police. When this man has so much he already was told NOT to do and he did it anyway and this innocent child died, how is it justifiable for him to be free? One can only explain this by calling it racism, injustice, and deprivation of the constitutional rights of this young citizen.
Why are the media not using more recent photos of Martin like the ones showing his tattoos and gold teeth? Or the more recent photo of Zimmerman showing him in a tie and smiling? (search www.orlandosentinel.com) How about the facts, please! The media needs to quit twisting this into a race issue and treat it like it is: potentially justifiable self-defense. I'm sorry a 17-year-old young man got killed but people need to look past all the mis-statements by his family and lawyer and subsequent blowing out of proportion by the media.
When it is possibly proven that Zimmerman was well within his right to defend himself, what are the protesting crowds going to do? As far as I can tell, un-reverend Al and Jesse are fomenting racism and will be responsible for the ensuing riots when investigators announce the truth! And if Zimmerman was at fault, then yes, he should be charged.
Having been assaulted by a gang of thugs when I was younger, I see the benefit of being able to "Stand My Ground" and am committed to "pre-meditated" self-defense. It will NOT happen to me again! Not that I would have to use a firearm because the mere sight of it will prevent an attack and that FACT often goes unreported... What would Sharpton and Jackson have me do--get beat up and possibly murdered?
When is the use of deadly force okay? Over theft of a truck? Over marijuana? Over an insult? When is it really justified to kill another human being? I know where I stand on this, but do I really live in a country that so easily justifies killing? Deep questions for a people that wear religion their sleeve.
Neighborhood Watch has specific RULES and participants agree to abide by those rules. Mr Zimmerman did NOT abide by the rules.
I am a natvie of Sanford Fl and currently this is my home The tragic death of Trayvon fits the cultural of law enforcment in Sanford Incident after incident has been brshed under the rug. I would describe Sanford as polite
The Sanford police department works under ther own inside world. Most citens believe there hands are tied. However, this tragredy will give the Africian American community the power to stand up.
What I have not heard in this context is the physiology of the kind of confrontation that took place between Zimmerman and Martin. When Martin was confronted by Zimmerman wielding a gun, his fight or flight response would have automatically kicked in. I am familiar with the kind of anger black youth often carry and how an athletic individual like Trayvon Martin would have responded with an emotional and physical intensity that once Zimmerman began to retreat Martin likely would have himself become aggressive. This is only human nature.
Unfortunately, if we look only at Zimmerman's retreat, we fail to see the larger provocation that created the deadly situation. Further, what might have been merely a fist fight became deadly with the presence of a gun.
LETS TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are so busy talking about racism. The NRA loves this distraction.
meangreen wrote:
Watch out for the trouble makers that that can stir up the crowd in a frenzy like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
It's understandable that Republicans like Oct21 and meangreen want to shut down any discussion of the Trayvon Williams murder -- ergo the attempt to change the subject and the complaints about people like Sharpton and Jackson who took on the case. Let's just recall that the Republicans in Florida were perfectly happy when the Sanford police closed the case immediately using the Florida Stand Your Ground law and it was only through the efforts of people like Al Sharpton that this case is being looked into -- people like Florida's Republican Governor Scott have been forced to do something instead of just continuing to ignore it.
None of us know all the facts. The only person (who is alive) there at the scene was Zimmerman. Since we all have judged Zimmerman and his past, does anyone know if Trayvon had a record?
If we are going to have an honest inclusive discussion about racial prejudice we need to discuss the actual reasons why people may be afraid of black mails. The people who break into homes in my neighborhood are black males, the boys who beat up and robbed my son at a public high school are black mails, the boys who grabbed my female parts when I was in high school were black males, the boy who broke my sisters ribs when she was his sixth grade teacher was a black male. These are all legitmate reasons to be afraid. This is not being addresseed.
People may be afraid because of the their actual experiences with black males and not some unfounded prejudice.
I think there has been too much focus on the "stand your ground law." This is a red herring. What is important, and what has been missed in the press, is the testimony of the woman who called 911. She later said that she heard the cries for help stop after the gunshot. This proves it was Treyvon crying, not Zimmerman. Why has this been dismissed?
I think there has been too much focus on the "stand your ground law." This is a red herring. What is important, and what has been missed in the press, is the testimony of the woman who called 911. She later said that she heard the cries for help stop after the gunshot. This proves it was Treyvon crying, not Zimmerman. Why has this been dismissed?
If I was crying for help and then shot the person attacking me I would stop screaming at that point too. Your logic is at best faulty, and quite possibly intentionally misleading. So in answer to your question it has been dismissed because it is a ridiculous argument.
The investigation has not been completed. So panelists' comments are premature.
Since there was a tussle in which Zimmerman was injured, it could be that Trayvon felt threatened and Zimmerman felt threatened.
So, this could turn out to be a tragic case of both personal misunderstanding and misunderstanding of the law.
The facts need to be investigated and the law reviewed.
Yet almost every black leader has found it necessary to speak out on Trayvon's behalf before the facts are in, including the dean of Howard U. Law School. Is this "justice" - or election year politics?
While we share and sympathize with Travon's parents' grief, they do not deserve our respect for escalating the incident into a national public lynching with mass rallies, congressional involvement and a comment by the president.
The American justice system needs to play out...unless we prefer mob rule.
And how! While white racism may seem to be more common, being held among the white "Majority", racism anywhere is still racism. It is antithetical to eliminating racism is ANY group.
To greensborocommentor:
In a lot of ways you're writing about the real core of the problem. We have a word for judging someone BEFORE they've done something, but not a word for judging them AFTER they've done something. I'm playing fast and loose here, true, but people will understand what I mean.
There's no way, for example, that law enforcement after a terrorist attack is going to approach someone who looks like a Muslim with the same equanimity they would somebody's kindly Grandpa. It's crazy to ask them to, lives can be at stake.
JamieT wrote:
Heather Mac Donald has a good perspective on the vile and despicable racialist pandering ...
Angry Pancho wrote:
But the idea that some young Black kid in a hoodie isn't a cause for concern is ludicrous. I'd keep an eye on the kid too. Why? Because I've seen these kids be completely hostile and unreasonable, even against their own interests.
JamieT Angry Pancho are superb spokesmean for the racist right: "The fact that this kid is black has nothing to do with the this case -- thousands of middle class white kids are gunned down every day ..." or "Of course this kid was a threat -- every black is a threat ..." These folks are upset that this killing is in the news -- it was just a black kid who deserved it, so what's the big deal.
To debfia:
What? Why cry out when the beating has stopped? It's just as likely Zimmerman stopped crying out. I don't think anyone's 'dismissed' anything.
livelystone wrote:
" Isn't it possible that crazy "people", not white people, do crazy things?"
------------------------------------------
The way the lame stream media operates, that can only be a possible explanation if the person accused of wrong doing is a minority. As long as the miscreant is white, their actions will be representative of the entire race, and be an indictment against the 2nd Amendment.
It is clearly premature to label this incident racism - though it satisfies many folks' agendas.
The term racism must be used so carefully b/c it is inflammatory.
midwesterner wrote:
None of us know all the facts.
Very true, but the Sanford police closed the case with no more (in fact, every indication is that they had less) information than we have now. We are now getting some investigation, much to the chagrin of the NRA and Republicans -- they were much more comfortable just sweeping it under the rug.