Trayvon Martin and Race Relations in America
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-03-26/trayvon-martin-and-race-relations-america
On Friday President Obama said, "If i had a son, he’d look like Trayvon." Though the President didn’t specifically mention race in his comments, race has been the discussion since the death of the Florida teenager made news. Trayvon Martin was shot and killed one month ago today by a white Hispanic man. George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, said he shot the teen in self defense. Police cited Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law as one reason they didn’t arrest him. Diane and her panel discuss the questions the killing of Trayvon Martin raises about state laws and race relations in America.
Guests
Donna Britt
author of "Brothers (and Me): A Memoir of Loving and Giving," journalist and former syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.
Isabel Wilkerson
a Pulitzer-Prize-winning journalist, author of "The Warmth of Other Suns."
Anthony Cook
Professor of Law at Georgetown, teaches courses in constitutional law, civil rights and African-American critical thought
David Ovalle
reporter for the Miami Herald
Comments
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Watch out for the trouble makers that that can stir up the crowd in a frenzy like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
I want to thank President Obama for speaking out. As a white man I need to be sure our President is on the job in the prosecution of murderers. We have adopted the Conceal Carry laws here in Ohio,meaning any trip to the store or restaurant and you`re risking your life and the lives of your loved ones.All I want is a fair chance to come home alive.
The lesson of "Fast and Furious" should have been how easily criminals,terrorists,and the insane can get guns at UNREGULATED gun shows. Guns that would be used on our own border agents.Seeing 30,000 U.S. annual gun deaths is getting very tiresome and threatening the safety of us all.It`s a shame right wing talkers obscure the reality and the politics.
While Geraldo's liberal mind is as empty as Al Capone's vault, like a blind squirrel, he did manage to root up an acorn this time. Good thing Bill Belichick wasn't walking in this neighborhood.
Patsy Nomore wrote:
"I want to thank President Obama for speaking out. As a white man I need to be sure our President is on the job in the prosecution of murderers. We have adopted the Conceal Carry laws here in Ohio,meaning any trip to the store or restaurant and you`re risking your life and the lives of your loved ones.All I want is a fair chance to come home alive."
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If you do not wish to apply for a CW license then don't. Why do you wish to deny others their right to the 2nd Amendment? Why are you paranoid that you will be shot by people carrying weapons legally? Are you paranoid about people illegally carrying weapons? Do you not trust yourself with a weapon?
POTUS Obama inserting his opinion on a case that has not even gone to court (even in an election year) will give the defense legal ammunition.
Patsy Nomore wrote: "The lesson of "Fast and Furious" should have been how easily criminals,terrorists,and the insane can get guns at UNREGULATED gun shows"
Wrong, "fast and Furious" guns were authorized sales by the ATF through gun dealers to known illegal straw purchasers, not through gun shows.
".Seeing 30,000 U.S. annual gun deaths is getting very tiresome and threatening the safety of us all.It`s a shame right wing talkers obscure the reality and the politics."
Fortunately freedom loving Americans which comprise most of the U.S. population today support their second amendment rights for self defense. Here's a link to debunk a lot of the nonsense coming from the left.
Top ten gun myths
http://www.todayssurvival.com/?p=1049
I am starting to wonder what part of the Constitution the left does support. They don't support the first or second amendment, they don't support a constitutional federal government, they do not support states rights, they do not support a free economy all they seem to support is total federal government control over our lives. The liberal progressive movement as each day goes by seems to be increasingly fascist. Thanks but no thanks.
As a hyperthetical, if Martin was a year or two older, carrying a gun and he felt threatened by Zimmerman--a larger man (judging from pictures) who was following him and then started to demand to know why he was there--wouldn't this law have allowed him to fire on Zimmerman? In that situation, Zimmerman feeling threatened by Martin and Martin feeling threatened by Zimmeran, could these two have stood on a residential street and traded rounds without EITHER ONE of them breaking the law?
I also find it interesting that both sides seem to refer to Martin almost exclusively by his first name (when only one name is used) and to Zimmerman by his last.
I've heard the phrase "walking while black" brought up a number of times in previous discussions. I think I know what it's like to walk while black in a middle-class neighborhood -- it sounds very similar to how I feel walking while white in Five Points in Atlanta. I find myself on the receiving end of a lot of open, undisguised hatred, and I'm terrified that some minor error on my part - or just running into a bigot having a bad day - might have disastrous consequences. So I keep my head down, stare at the ground in front of me, and try to get from where I am to where I'm going as quickly and directly as possible.
I'm all for an honest discussion about race, and I'm all for eliminating racism. But a sincere effort to address racism must put black racism on the table besides white racism. Both are toxic, both are endemic in certain populations, and both are major contributors to the huge problem with racism that we still have in this country. No effort that focuses solely on white racism and ignores or tacitly accepts black racism can ever ultimately succeed.
I see the NRA people are out in full force here in these comments, all completely skirting the issues surrounding this particular case.
I am a white woman. If a man started following me in his car, I would feel immediately threatened. If he got out of his car and started following me, I would panic and attack him with all my might. And you are telling me that if he felt threatened by my attack, he could shoot me and kill me, no questions asked? That is what this Stand Your Ground law implies. And it is absurd in the extreme.
Oh, but I would be allowed to have those feelings and punch the guy because I am a white woman, not a young black man.
"Amy wrote:
I see the NRA people are out in full force here in these comments, all completely skirting the issues surrounding this particular case"
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I am not a member of the NRA and I am brown.
I feel that Trayvon Martin’s death is a terrible tragedy and that George Zimmerman should be arrested and tried in court to determine his guilt. The stand your ground law should also be re-evaluated. Something I would like to see addressed by the black political and cultural leaders is how the stereotypes that lead to these types of tragedies can be changed. I live in a predominantly white neighborhood in Florida that is bordered by a mixed race neighborhood. My family has been under “lock-down” orders at least three times while police tried to catch fleeing subjects. My children have watched policemen with dogs chase black suspects through our yard after break ins in our neighborhood in broad daylight. Two weeks ago 2 black teenagers were seen fleeing my house after attempting to break in at 12 pm on a Saturday afternoon. What impact are these incidents having on my family’s opinion about the black community? How are black cultural and political leaders working to address this behavior so people don’t have to be suspicious of people they don’t know walking or driving through their neighborhoods? I believe it is a small minority of the black community ruining it for the larger group, but black leaders need to have an open and honest discussion about what part the above referenced behaviors play in reinforcing bigotry.
I have a question for the panel about the shooter's race and how it has been discussed in the news. I recall reading in a cnn article that Mr. Zimmerman "claims to be Hispanic."
That's the first time I I can remember someone's self-description of their own race qualified with the words "claims to be." As though there's a possibility that the shooter is lying about his race and might really be white. Does your panel think that:
1. This is cnn expressing doubt at a rather shallow attempt by Mr. Zimmerman to play the "this can't be racist because I'm not white" card; or,
2. This is a rather shallow reluctance on cnn's part to let go of the sensationalism of a "white man shoots black child" story; or,
3. Some combination of both of the above?
And what do these things say about America?
In Regards to the Treyvon Martin shooting: It is my opinion that, by carrying a weapon, Mr. Zimmerman felt emboldened to make several poor decisions. First, he neglected to follow the officer’s request not to follow Mr. Martin. Second, he got out of his car. Third, he presumably made verbal contact which he felt escalated to a threatening situation. Fourth, rather than diffuse the tension, he heightened it by pulling out his weapon. Most times when a weapon is pointed at someone’s head or chest, bad things happen. This was not a neighborhood watch program but neighborhood vigilantism. I believe that rather than feel threatened, Mr. Zimmerman felt overly confident to pursue the teenager exactly because he was carrying a gun. Rather than allow guns to be carried during neighborhood watch patrols, this particular neighborhood watch program would have been better served by offering volunteers conflict resolution courses.
Another poor decision was made. This by the state legislature for passing the “stand your ground” law, which would be more aptly named “posture and shoot”. Is this Florida 2012 or Toombstone 1800”s?
Looks like there are two seperate and distinct issues at play.
1. Did the conflict in question fullfill the letter and intent of the Stand your ground law? We only have one side of the story so it will never be resolved to the satisfaction of the people on the losing side of this argument, human nature at work and play.
2. Is the stand your ground law appropriate? This is only a question that should be placed to Florida voters, their state, their laws, you don't like it don't go there. Nuff said.
I can't count of the number of times the last couple weeks where a black commentator argues that the case illustrates the unfair treatment of black males in our justice system, followed by a white commentator saying: "Oh, let's not make this about race!".
If at all possible please put race aside and consider the "stand your ground" law that allowed this murder to happen. WHO in Florida created this law, who passed it and who is doing anything to repeal it? I truly hope this will be the downfall of the NRA. I'm not against the 2nd Amendment but this law is way beyond those rights and has now infringed on Trayvon's right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (or a walk to the store to get skittles and ice tea).
One of the Florida legislators who created the stand your ground law expressed on Fox News that the problem was misinterpretation of the law. As written and intended, there is nothing in the law that allows anyone to chase another person down and confront them. Or stalk them, as Zimmerman appears to have done. As I understand it, the law means to allow those suddenly confronted with criminal assault to defend themselves, rather than have to take a chance they can run fast enough.
Is it even reasonable to suggest that an unarmed teen weighing 140 lbs to attack a 250 lb man, and the bigger man starts to scream for help? Did I miss something about this. It was the young kid screaming for his life before he was shot, plain and simple. And some people wonder why the police aren't trusted in some communities. This is exhibit A.
There is an interesting silence on the part of gun rights defenders and the slain man. Why are none of them saying "Trayvon Johnson could have defended himself if he were carrying"?
Even the author of the Stand your Ground Law commented last week, that in this particular case, that he could not possibly see how the law would apply.
Republicans have been on the news frequently over the last week, for example Jeb Bush, saying that the Police did not act properly WRT Florida's Stand Your Ground law that they rammed through the legislature (not just in Florida, but in numerous right-wing states); THIS IS A LIE -- the police in Sanford did exactly what the drafter's intended. The objective was to provide a hunting license for whites to gun down minorities and that is exactly how the far right wingers in Florida and Texas police departments, etc, have been interpreting the laws over the last five years or so. What the NRA and the right wingers have done with these laws is re-instate the Jim Crow era environment where killing a minority is just fun and games for Republican hunters.
When Florida passed this law I referred to it at that time as the "one free n-word law," because it basically gives each person one free killing of a minority.
I wish Diane would ask the guest how many times the "stand your ground" law has been invoked.
Has there been any mention of a civil suit? It would seem to be another way to get justice for this tragic death.
26 states now have "stand your ground laws," so you are getting up a pretty long list of places not to visit.
For some reason the NRA keeps lobbying states to adopt this law.
Stand your ground law is being pushed by ALEC nationwide
Currently, my child is learning about stranger danger in school and I remember being taught to beware of strangers. George Zimmerman was not a police officer following a teen he was a stranger who followed a teen in his car and then got out of the car and followed him. If my child were being followed by a stranger who then confronted him, I would expect my child to fight for his life, as I would. George Zimmerman should have used common sense and as the adult shown better judgement.
Despite all the media coverage I still do not know: 1. Was Trayvon on a public street walking home from the store?
2. Was Trayvon in the gated community without authority?
3. How did he get there?
4. Did Trayvon LIVE in the gated community?
5. What was he doing in the gated community?
While none of the answers would justify killing him - at the VERY LEAST the worthless press should be providing the answers: WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, HOW, WHY. Very simple, very easy!! But the so called press is too busy pumping up the story instead of dealing with providing basi and needed information
Zimmerman had a broken nose and grass stains on his clothes? Doesn't sound as cut and dry as the media would have it. What a case of whiplash if the screams on the 911 recording end up being Zimmerman's, as he apparently claims.
Can't blame Blacks for assuming the worse. They're clearly the most frequent targets of outright injustice if not just rough justice. But the idea that some young Black kid in a hoodie isn't a cause for concern is ludicrous. I'd keep an eye on the kid too. Why? Because I've seen these kids be completely hostile and unreasonable, even against their own interests. It's sad but completely true.
Zimmerman had a broken nose and grass stains on his clothes? Doesn't sound as cut and dry as the media would have it. What a case of whiplash if the screams on the 911 recording end up being Zimmerman's, as he apparently claims.
Can't blame Blacks for assuming the worse. They're clearly the most frequent targets of outright injustice if not just rough justice. But the idea that some young Black kid in a hoodie isn't a cause for concern is ludicrous. I'd keep an eye on the kid too. Why? Because I've seen these kids be completely hostile and unreasonable, even against their own interests. It's sad but completely true.
They and (I admit) poor White kids use the hoodies like masks to hide their identity. Why would anyone deny this?