The Kandahar Massacre and the Future of U.S. Involvement in Afghanistan
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-03-19/kandahar-massacre-and-future-us-involvement-afghanistan
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has called for the U.S. to speed up the withdrawal of combat troops from his country. That demand came after 16 Afghan villagers were murdered in the middle of the night - allegedly by a U.S. staff sergeant identified Friday as Robert Bales. The slayings have severely strained U.S. – Afghan relations and further eroded Americans’ support for the war. One survey taken after the atrocity showed half of Americans want President Obama to expedite troop withdrawal. Whether that would - or even could - happen is an open question. Diane and her guests discuss the future of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan.
Guests
Ambassador James Dobbins
director of the International Security and Defense Policy Center at the RAND Corporation, and former special envoy to Afghanistan.
Yochi Dreazen
senior national security correspondent, National Journal magazine.
Phyllis Bennis
director of the New Internationalism Project at the Institute for Policy Studies; co-author of "Ending the U.S. War in Afghanistan: A Primer."
Comments
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test.
The incident was tragic, but nothing more than a lone mentally disturbed individual who "snapped" -- not unlike similar incidents here in the US, from school shootings, to Major Nidal, to the Virginia Tech gunman, and many other examples.
Obama knows this. Karzai knows this. Everybody concerned knows this. It was NOT a US military operation, or anything like one.
Why are Karzai and other leaders being allowed to treat this like the US military purposely planned the attack, acting like the US military or government was responsible?
It's time for Obama to say, "Look, this was an aberration, so while it's sad and we take it seriously, there is nothing more to be read into the situation."
When a country has a military force in another country they are responsible for the actions of their soldiers. The assumption is that the soldiers are under control of their commanders. Yes, there are aberrations but that does not diminish the horror. We cannot continue to send our soldiers time and time again to war and not expect that there will be tremendous consequences. Congress has the power to reinstate the draft during times of war. Let's do that.
I don't wish to sound sexist, but surely Dawn knows that women can not be drafted. So it goes to say why a women would suggest that. We don't need to reinstate the draft, we simply need to end this travesty of a war. President Obama inherited a mess. Let's give Karzai what he wants. Leave him to perish, because as soon as we pull out, the Taliban will simply put a bullet in his head. I hate to say that, but it's true.
At least it seems the hopelessness of this mission is becoming more evident to those who have previously said it's working and were making progress.
Some of us stood against the invasion of Afghanistan as well as the invasion of Iraq. Understandable that the US would consider sending in special forces to take out those connected to 9/11. But as some of us were aware even though the MSM barely touched the story that the government of Afghanistan was asking for hard evidence that OBL's fingerprints were on the 9/11 attack. And at that time the Bush administration either did not want to provide that hard evidence at that time or could not.
Crimes against humanity have taken place in Afghanistan and Iraq early on in both of those countries. Our MSM and the US military have basically put up roadblocks to keep the American public unaware of what has and continues to go on in both of those countries that we have invaded.
Early on in Afghanistan there was the Afghan Massacre "The Convoy of Death" that the Rehm show did not touch. But Amy Goodman of Democracy Now did. Afghan Massacre : The Convoy of Death - Information Clearing Housewww.informationclearinghouse.info/article3267.htmCached - Similar
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Afghan Massacre : The Convoy of Death. In Afghanistan, filmmaker Jamie Doran has uncovered evidence of a massacre: Taliban prisoners of war suffocated in ...
Poor president Obama, maybe he can sue the United States for mental stress.
I had the honor to get to know a Fulbright Scholar from AFghanistan who was studying at Ohio University. Hundreds of hours talking about his family, country, history of war in his country. He and I tried to get the Diane Rehm show to interview some of the Fulbright Scholars in the states from Afghanistan on her program to share their views about what their families were reporting what was going on in their country. The Rehm show had an American woman who had opened up a beauty parlor in KabulSubjects of 'Kabul Beauty School' Face New Risks : NPRwww.npr.org › News › WorldSimilar
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Jun 1, 2007 – The real-life subjects of a book about how Afghanistan women cope with ... All Things Considered · Fresh Air · The Diane Rehm Show · On The ... NPR News and Shows ... American hairdresser Debbie Rodriguez hugs a student beautician at the ... Taliban Wages War on Afghan Girls' Schools April 5, 2007 ...
My friend from Afghanistan (back in his country now) and I were listening to the silly program live. He and I sat their and laughed and almost cried about how absurd the Rehm Teams focus was on Afghanistan. We continued to ask their team to focus on more serious issues in his country. On killings in his country by the occupying forces. Not.
The MSM including the Diane Rehm show has been complicit in not reporting about what has really been going on in that country and in Iraq
One soldier did something horribly wrong, the vast majority of soldiers do their jobs honorably. This is nothing more then allowing the "loudest voice" to get the spotlight. How about we applaud the good soldiers and stop giving a soapbox to the bad.
The other huge issue that the Diane Rehm show as well as most other MSM outlets were the Winter Hearings in 2009 that happened in DC. Where American soldiers returning or between deployments from both Afghanistan and Iraq testified about what they had done and what some of the horrific things that had all ready gone on and were continuing to go on. The Rehm show ignored these hearings. Go look at the press coverage link at their site and listen to the hearings at the Iraq Veterans Against the War
Winter Soldier | Iraq Veterans Against the Warivaw.org/wintersoldierCached
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Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan featured testimony from U.S. veterans who served in those occupations, giving an accurate account of what ...
Phyllis please talk about how the MSM has been absolutely complict in ignoring what has really been going on on the ground in Afghanistan as well as Iraq.
From my vantage the only thing the US government and the US military learned from Vietnam is keep the pictures from the American people and information from the American people. And they got rid of the draft.
Ambassador Dobbins is either really out of the loop or continuing to try to fool the American people. Soldiers who testified on the hill in 2009 about horrific crimes that they had participated and witnessed in Afghanistan and Iraq and the MSM including the Diane Rehm show ignored. Crimes against humanity have been taking place in both Afghanistan and Iraq for years. The US military has been better at covering up and the MSM has been basically complicit in not doing deep investigations or reporting about these crimes. Hell the Diane Rehm show and other MSM outlets completely ignored the Winter Soldier hearings and those hearings took place right in the Rehm Teams back yard in DC
Last weekend there was an election in Puerto Rico. The U.S. presence there is because of American Imperialism.Gitmo,the Philippines,all over,more than 130 countries. American Imperialism is ugly, expensive,and damaging to us in many ways.I even heard a political talker on "This Week",refer to the Afghans as a client.
Could we please have actual soldiers to provide input on the radio show? It is disingenuous to bring in experts who haven't even been in military service. At least find one independent military expert who is not a voice of the Defense Department or a military contractor.
These experts are all distanced from having been there. There is some benefit to their voice, but not having been there is like have men comment and legislate on women's issues.
Thank you.
I wonder if the use of the anti-malaria drug, Laramie, which has an FDA warning about possible psychotic side effects on some people, is an issue. I think that it is the anti-malaria drug the armed services give to soldiers.
I had a daughter who had a very violent reaction to it.
...fault assignment should begin with the American people who believe a 10+ year war can be faught with a voluntary Army!
Ms. Rehm, it is difficult and at times offensive listening to a group of intellectuals sitting at your round table discussing this topic. Why do you not have a veteran with 2-5 combat tours on your panel? The New York Times is reporting that this soldier not only shot but also stabbed and burned his victims. If true, then the armys is 100% correct to seperate his conduct from the rest of us. I cringe at my countrymen - at least one of your panelists so far - starting to associate extended tours or even PTSD with this behavior. I withhold labelling his behavior until I know all the facts that will be shared. However, I wish to criticise your panels role in shaping this conversation because you are speaking of veterans as if we lack the maturity and intellectual perspective to decide what the effects of war are. Once again, the "experts" should be listening to us in the media, rather than racing to be the first think-tank analyst to "figure it all out".
If you discuss this topic again, bring veterans of various views to the table and spare us the data crunchers and social scientists for a while. Thank you.
We have to ask "Why are we in this war?"
Reading Churchill's, "My Early Life" he says in around 1895 that all the brightest were being trained for military experience. "It did seem a pity that it all had to be make believe, and that the age of wars between civilized nations had to come to an end forever. If it had only been 100 years earlier what splendid times we should have had! Fancy being 19 in 1793 with more than 20 years of war against Napoleon in front of one!" (p 44.)
For some (George W Bush, military personnel, etc.) going to war is a sign of manhood. We got into this mess for some misguided reason and now can't get out of it.
Phyllis Bennis claimed the US Army slang-term "Haji" (based on the Arabic word "Haj" for an Islamic pilgrimage) is racist. I would expect someone presumably as educated as her to know better and I am tried of otherwise intelligent people making similar claims.
Islam is not a a race. When are people going to come to understand that? You can be of white, brown, black or whatever racial background and still be a Muslim.
The term Haji as used by US troops is probably derogatory in a way that "Charlie" in the Vietnam War or "Jerry" in World War II was used. It is almost certainly prejudicial. But it is not racist.
Puleeeeze!!! Obama would have been out on day one BUT he knows and everyone else knows the conservatives who love war would be screaming that BHO cut and ran!!! The wars were a disaster. BHO does not want to go down in history as the Dem who cut and ran and that is why we lost. EVERYONE knows the lie would be used for the next 2 generations against the Dems. SO he has to stay the course until the agreed date of withdraw. Chicken hawks are awful they don't mind sending your children off to die, theirs will be in Ivy league schools. BRING BACK THE DRAFT
I'm a Viet Nam vet with PTSD.
War now, or war in 1968 ... the profound effects on soldiers and civilians are devastating.
Of course, we need to get out of Afghanistan.
And we need to promise ourselves - and our young people - that we will never again start stupid wars for all the wrong reasons.
I would agree with bring the troops home but to think that returning soldier's will find jobs paying $50,000 per year is a bit unrealistic.
I have three daughters with various advanced degrees. None of them are earning $50,000 per year several years after earning their degrees.
Another twig snapping, heard around the world. At least this particular 'don't ask don't tell' situation, and the inhumane expectations we have put on our forces after we put them on point, on stage, after having been 'bushwacked' by expectations of life on the homefront, while he knew to expect anything when 'on stage.' Speak truth to the power of the subcontractor network, and the 'oil babies.' They have plans for their 'revenue streams' that 'must not be disturbed.' Trust no one, especially no the plans of ....'Regency' of Virginia, and their battle rattles. Stay Well.
@ Nancy Stewart
I have been saying for years the wars were based on bravado. arrogance and to prove George was a decisive warrior. This war was pushed by Chicken hawks who used fear mongering as their weapon of choice. Dems were shamed as "wanting to talk" This all needs to rest on the Bush/Cheney team. We may never undo the damage. The next time a chicken hawk tries to foist war on us we need to storm the gates of Congress and White House. Never forget the wars of choice
billtmore wrote:
"Puleeeeze!!! Obama would have been out on day one BUT he knows and everyone else knows the conservatives who love war would be screaming that BHO cut and ran!!!"
Are you saying Obama is spineless and only cares about reelection. I agree!
By the way, Obama has already declared war on Iran with the latest sanctions. Expect to see a troop draw down in order to get ready for the next war.
It's a lot easier to start a war than end it. We should never have invaded Afghanistan; al Qaeda and the 9/11 attack could have been dealt with as an international criminal investigation using intelligence (in both senses) and special forces. Have we learned our lesson from Afghanistan and the even greater folly of Iraq, or will the same warmongers who got us into those wars keep pushing for us to go into Iran, just to satisfy Netanyahu's itchy trigger finger?
The new screener at the Diane Rehm show will not allow anyone through who has criticisms of the Rehm Team and their lack of coverage on crimes against humanity that have all ready taken place in Afghanistan, Iraq. Would not let me through. Have to be more clever say something the screener and the Rehm Team want to hear.
As cdobic and A Vet point out the Rehm team has seldom had actual soldiers on to discuss their experiences on the ground in Afghanistan and IRaq. In fact the Rehm team completely ignored the Winter Hearings in DC in 2009. Where one soldier after the next testified about horrific things that have taken place in Afghanistan and Iraq that they were either involved in or witnessed. Not too late Rehm team you could actually still do that. Have some soldiers on. Think about having some of the Fullbright Scholars from Afghanistan who are studying here in the states on your program (contacted you years ago about this with timely information) Nope you had a woman on in 2007 who had opened up a beauty parlor in Kabul on your program. Will never forget listening to this program (beauty parlor in Kabul)with my friend from Afghanistan who was studying at Ohio University. He was appalled by your superficial focus on what was really going on in his country. I was right behind him sharing in his shock about how what was really going on on the ground in his country was basically being ignored by the Rehm show and other MSM outlets.
Have some of the soldiers from the 2009 Winter Hearings on your program. Not too late...well a bit late
Mancuroc. Great points. There were big questions about the invasion of Afghanistan and even bigger questions about the lies told to get the majority of Americans to support the invasion of Iraq. The warmongers started focusing on Iran soon after the invasion of Iraq. Cheney on Tim Russerts, Reuel Marc Gerect, Gaffney etc on the Diane Rehm show. Bolton on Talk of the Nation. One Iraq WMD warmonger after the next on Face the Nation, George Stephanapolous's program at the time, CNN, Terri Gross's Fresh Air etc repeating unsubstantiated claims about Iran. MSM host (who clearly learned little to nothing about their very serious failings in the run up to the invasion of Iraq) would not challenge these endlessly repeated unsubstantiated claims about Iran...Essentially helping set the stage for a pre-emptive attack on Iran. Best place to go is RACE FOR IRAN for well researched information about the situation with Iran. The Rehm team have yet to have Flynt and Hilary Mann Leverett on to discuss Iran. But they have had far less informed guest on their program to discuss the situation. Flynt and Hillary were both in the Bush administration. Flynt quit just before the invasion of Iraq. Hillary has directly negotiated with Iranian officials. Their biographies are at their site RACE FOR IRAN. Stil wondering when the Rehm Team will have them on. Are the Iranian warmongers blocking the Rehm show from having these experts on? What is up with that?
We put religious symbols on our bullets and weapons. We allowed Christian Missionaries in,including those from Korea that were kidnapped and held hostage.We use bigoted language towards Muslims,at home and in the military. We allow right wing talkers to poison the minds of military personnel,including Catholic Chaplains.Asking these people to disobey the orders of their military commanders,and turn their pulpits into political soapboxes.
We can`t get it in our heads that WE are just another occupier.
We use this Imperialism Empire building as our jobs program.
A ...WIN... would be leaving somewhere and they don`t hate us. WE`RE LOSING....BIG TIME !!!
kathleen: stumbled on the symbolic truth that DRShow has often been a beauty parlor where ugly truths are made pretty and mercenary correspondents get all spruced up. Sometime menaces to civilization get a makeover.
Afghanistan was a diversion from the 9/11 conspiracy which could never have withstood a thorough investigation. The public is so pumped up on myth they despise the truth of their being deceived.
See Democracy Now of Friday the 16th where Neil Shea (of Stars and Stripes) comments on the mania and mindless aggression culture among deployed US troops. Chris Hedges column at Truthdig also conveys many truths about war today. Diane could never get these guys in her beauty parlor no matter how much she wanted them. Management (CIA) won't allow that.
I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it Diane.
Oct21 I was going to reply but it is not worth it . I guarantee there will still be the right wingers that cry in 2014 that BHO cut and ran. Dead children are fine as long as they are not the children of those that lusted to get into these wars.
BRING BACK THE DRAFT!!!