Aftermath of Deadly Attack on Afghan Villagers
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-03-13/aftermath-deadly-attack-afghan-villagers
In the early morning hours of March 11th, an American serviceman walked off his base in the Kandahar province of Afghanistan. The U.S. Army staff sergeant apparently went house to house in the neighboring village and opened fire on civilians, killing sixteen people--nine of whom were children. The tragic shooting was only the latest in a string of incidents involving U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, including the recent accidental burning of Korans by U.S. service personnel. Diane and guests examine what the latest incident could mean for the planned U.S. withdrawal in 2014 and future security in the region.
Guests
Michael Hirsh
chief correspondent, National Journal magazine; author of "Capital Offense: How Washington's Wise Men Turned America's Future Over to Wall Street."
Lawrence Korb
senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration.
Christine Fair
assistant professor, Georgetown University's security studies program; fellow at West Point's Combating Terrorism Center.
Dr. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie
M.D., chief medical officer, Department of Mental Health, former chief psychiatrist in the Army
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
"THX 1138 wrote: We still have a 16,000 strong U.S. presence in Iraq. And yes Obama did follow a withdrawal date as outlined by the Bush administration. The only difference was the hard date set, and that was what all the complaining was about. We will have a presence in Iraq for decades at a minimum, we always do."
THX is correct -- most Dems are unhappy with the Obama Administration continuing the war-mongering that the Republicans did for 8 years. But the point is that the Republicans are not unhappy because has been too pro-war, it is because he has been insufficiently pro-war. Again, the Republican position is that we should have occupied Iraq and Afghanistan forever (like we have been doing in Korea). To argue that this is the Obama Administration position overstates the case.
Have we forgotten about Timothy McVeigh? Any war with more nuances than goals can create lone wolves who develop their own convictions about politics, culture, or religion. This regrettable slaughter of Afghan civilians could very well have been perpetrated against American civilians.
AirForcedWife- Clearly these are not winnable wars, and they are wars of atrocity where no one can be a hero. No combat soldier comes home whole.
Our Oligarchy is not in it to win it but to milk us out of every dime they can extort. Anyone who joins up is a self-deceiver or ignorant ready to be taken in by a recruiter sharpie. It pretty much parallels subprime mortgage bundling.
The wealthy's risk is protected and the public ends up holding a bag of crap.
You fools who transpose party politics onto this manufactured tragedy are the worst. The Duopoly is most in synch when it comes to foreign affairs, and this is also the realm of the biggest lies. And there is a sadistic culture in policing and in the military just like there is a pedophile culture in Catholic Church hierarchy. It is a menace at home and abroad.
Yesterday a putz wrote on a blog that the Sergeant isn't a terrorist "because he was having a nervous breakdown." I suggest to you he was a drone who went off course, a pitiful product of military training, and so the worst kind of terrorist: A programmed killing machine without personal volition. The fact of unmentionable atrocities has been mentioned here. Our military condones and performs the worst kinds of sadistic tortures as sport, and makes our troops into nutjobs. At Abu Graib there was child rape in front of parents. When dopey Obama became President he didn't know what he was getting into. Now he is a drugged up megalomaniac equivalent to Shrub Bush who came into office well-prepared to commit war crimes. Diane sits in the slipstream unaware of the realities of war, but admiring the adventure of high conspiracy. Can we call this show informative? Sort of.
Not much.
This country needs to quit the Empire business. People are ready for some democracy. Maybe this country was intended as a conquering republic, but anyone can see why that couldn't last.
"and especially angry at the Republicans for pushing 2 wars down our throats...." and many similar comments - why do the Republicans get all the credit for this? What about Clinton and Pelosi and Leiberman and in fact dozens and hundreds of dems in the house and senate back then, and now the entire Obama regime. There's a whole lot of us that enjoy being angry at the Republicans for the US jihad on the Middle East, but want to view Democratic hawks as harmless and/or ineffectual doves. Time to get beyond silly team affiliations and start grappling with the real issue: Empire vs. Republic.
Where is the outrage of the Afghan people when the taliban supported groups use IEDs or suicide bombers and kill innocent bystanders? Is the outrage reserved only for the Americans and their allies? this tells me that we have done nothing to build up support for the Afgans against the regime which denies freedoms to it's people.
I was deployed in the navy during vietnam period. What role does spousal infidelity play on the mental state of soldiers. I know it made my deployment intolorable but somehow I survived it and did my job.
One of your guests stated, "We hold our military in such high esteem." But it's not what we say, it's what we do that matters. This young man served three tours in Iraq and was then sent to Afghanistan. No one can sustain that amount of stress without suffering tremendous emotional damage. We don't treat our military personnell well, and that speaks volumes.
As long as the Saudis are allowed to run the system of education in Pakistan by establishing more Islamic schools and creating tens of thousands of ignorant and violent talibans, the world will not see any peace.
Mattlove wrote,"Empire vs. Republic" ? That`s the whole political debate in a nutshell. Do we fund war and cut education? Do we fund weapons of mass destruction and destroy health care? Do we honor the Socialist documents like the Declaration of Independence,Constitution,and Bill of Rights? Or do we allow our founding documents to be converted into a Corporate Charter? A lot will be at stake this November.
Most honest piece so far about the most recent massacre in Afghanistan
Another civilian massacre and the savagery of our soldiers
by Nima Shirazi on March 13, 2012
Nearly eight years ago, on April 1, 2004, former speech writer and Special Assistant to Ronald Reagan, Peggy Noonan wrote an article for the Wall Street Journal, where she was a contributing editor. It began like this (emphasis in original):
The world is used to bad news and always has been, but now and then there occurs something so brutal, so outside the normal limits of what used to be called man’s inhumanity to man, that you have to look away. Then you force yourself to look and see and only one thought is possible: This must stop now. You wonder, how can we do it? And your mind says, immediately: Whatever it takes.
The brutal, inhuman event she was referring to was the killing in the Iraqi city of Fallujah of four American civilian contractors, whose SUV was ambushed by rocket-propelled grenades the day before. The four men, all employees of the infamous mercenary outfit Blackwater, were shot, their bodies burned, mutilated, and dragged through the streets in celebration. The charred corpses of two of those killed that day were strung up on a bridge over the Euphrates River. The news, and accompanying photographs, sent shockwaves of horror and disgust through the United States and prompted endless editorialsfrom coast to coast.
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/another-civilian-massacre-and-the-savagery...
Mike Larson wrote: "To argue that this is the Obama Administration position overstates the case".
I see no evidence Obama and the democrats are any different than the republicans, they are not walking the walk. There never is a complete pull out under any administration. There were a whole lot of democrats kissing butt at AIPAC last week and you know what that means. Remember every major conflict of the twentieth century had democrats at the helm, WW1,WW2, Korea and Vietnam and we still have bases all over the world because of it.
"Denver station KCNC-TV, President Obama spoke about support for U.S. troops, saying that “we‘ve got to make sure that we’re caring for our soldiers,” but followed the seemingly compassionate pledge up with a disparaging remark that appeared to dismiss and diminish America’s service men and women outright."
In speaking about our troops, the commander in chief said:
“You can’t help but be proud of them generally.”
We target the less afluent class in America for military advertising with "see the world", have an "adventure", and earn money for further education - things the sons and daughters of the political, financial, and intellectual elite already have access to. Then we claim there is somehow a "predisposition" to violence in servicemembers, in part, because they are WILLING to do violence on our behalf and partly because the elite (who obviously can't be violent. They're "refined") stay away in favor of ivy league educations followed by 6 and 7 figure incomes working with "daddy's freinds"?
Though not intended to be malevolent, that claim bordered on rank racism/classism. It is NOT the military that is anxious to do violence, but rather the will of those aforementioned "elite" who, having sloughed off the responsibility of defending this country physically, now as politicians and industrialists, desire to have others do it for them because they believe that servicemen/women are "naturaly disposed toward violence" and must therefore be as eager as the politicians themselves for glory through war.
We have a growing problem in this country in that those whose duty it is to make these momentous decisions, have no understanding of the costs they are incurring (and asking others to incur). And a perfect example can be found in the newest crop of presidential candidates who bemoan others "refusal" to "support the troops" (all that's being considering is cutting back on expenditures for the military industrial complex, not kicking family members out of their homes or denying soldiers bullets) while insisting they will be MORE likely to send those troops into another devastating "police action, peacekeeping mission, pre-emptive strike"...call it what they will, sending someone to die needlessly can NEVER be considered "support".
It's time for the draft because freedom isn't, AND SHOULD NOT BE, free.
Former STS3(SS)USN Paul R. Wood.
Marcus...I believe his point in saying "generally" was an aknowledgement that not EVERY service member sees combat or deployment, but that we are still proud of them.
Admittedly, I did not hear the comment, but as former Navy, I see nothing I would consider disparaging in it.
Patsy. I wouldn't go so far as to call them "socialist documents". Socialism, in it's few examples as a going concern back then, was more-or-less THEOCRACY. Something obviously avoided by the founders.
Sorry if I am late coming to this discussion, was attending to the affects of a Veteran who died at home in the wee hours. So cable was cut off because I forgot to mail the envelope in the escalating monitoring and care taking of a dying friend and veteran. I live in a city where I heard the city police were going to undergo training on how to handle someone who might be a Veteran of the Current Festivities in the Middle East. Normal response would be to kick any person to the curb who doesn't present themselves to the standards of the Virginia Gentleman. Of course any person coming home from the Festivities in the Middle East should be issued with a special scarf, and a staff that has a radio where they can call for help if a Norfolk policeman approaches. They need to be protected by not being looked down upon, especially when out of uniform trying to make a way to healing on the streets of Katrina by the Bay, Norfolk, Virginia. They do not need to be trying to get to temporary entertainment in the Downtown. Stay safe soldiers, sailors, marines, air force, and coast guard. Do not go unaccompanied near the Virginia Gentlemen and their Ladies, the gracious folks of the Old Tidewater, Sweet City on the Lafayette. Just nod and get to safety.
Paul Wood wrote:
"Marcus...I believe his point in saying "generally" was an aknowledgement that not EVERY service member sees combat or deployment, but that we are still proud of them."
--------------------------------------------
Thank you for your service. However, your interpretation of POTUS Obama's quote:
“You can’t help but be proud of them generally.”
is indeed creative. We know that sans teleprompter, Obama has a difficult time speaking extemporaneously. But I do not believe he was making any distinction about members of the military that see combat and those that are REMFs.
The idea that America or our brave men and women of the US military have anything to do with the actions of this coward is so offensive I can't even begin to describe it. PTSD is a problem, to be sure. But 99.99999% of our service personnel who are diagnosed with it do not massacre innocent civilians. We are not responsible for this; the individual soldier is. And I hope he rots in h$ll because of it.
Addendum: Heard on news that the Romney man is ridiculing the low troop numbers, and condemning the present administration. He calls for larger troop numbers. I agree. All male members at any university, public, private, christian, etc., who are legacy acceptances, will do on any hot spot of the world and keep the way safe for the Cheney puppets. I know the number is easy to figure out. Anyone under 27, graduate or in school, accepted automatically as a legatee. They will have the genes, demeanor, attitude and education to keep their family's fortunes. Safe. I know... Why didn't you think of that. Well, you are welcome to pass this idea on as your own. Sic semper tyranus. Commonwealth of Virginia.
Why do some men become soldiers? Sometimes it is because of the very violence within them and the desire to act out that violence. Remember that this man trained/was stationed in the same area that had the "Kill Team," a group of American soldiers who created a game of killing innocent civilians. A quote from yesterday's show on Talk of the Nation from a solider named Harris sums it up very well. "When I was 18 I walked into the Marine recruiters office and said that all I wanted to do was kill people. The marines said that was the best answer they had ever heard anyone give."
Some men are just truly sadistic monsters.
Buffalobirdie wrote:
" A quote from yesterday's show on Talk of the Nation from a solider named Harris sums it up very well. "When I was 18 I walked into the Marine recruiters office and said that all I wanted to do was kill people. The marines said that was the best answer they had ever heard anyone give."
Some men are just truly sadistic monsters."
--------------------------------------------
Had he said all he wanted to do was to be an urban terrorist, the USMC would have sent him to Kathy Boudin. Some women are truly just sadistic monsters.
This was a sick young man who probably should not have been in Afghanistan. This is a problem with our society. The privilege and the most talented in our society for the most part refuse to serve, and because of this more and more of our society refuses to serve also. So the burden of defending the country falls to an ever smaller and smaller number of citizens. This is wrong. I believe that in order to whole federal office a person should have served in the military except in cases of medical waivers.
Yes, I don't think the Romney would have been so 'bold' if all of his children hadn't aged out of going to OCS school. Neither do any of the Republican candidates respect any woman's choice, as they have all had vasectomy's so they will bring no hardship of the 'offspring' type on anyone known to them. I am sure they are no ones friend, nevertheless.
Yes, I don't think the Romney would have been so 'bold' if all of his children hadn't aged out of going to OCS school. Neither do any of the Republican candidates respect any woman's choice, as they have all had vasectomy's so they will bring no hardship of the 'offspring' type on anyone known to them. I am sure they are no ones friend, nevertheless.
We wouldnt have this mess if our troops were pulled out after getting osama binhiding. It started in iraq with bush. My opinion is that he had to protect his oil interests there. He let Binhiding go home after 9/11 when everyone else was grounded from flying.
Now we are paying the price in other ways such as higher gas prices, and no jobs. Between the military warmongers and the rich oil barrons like bush, a man like obama hasn't a chance to get things going for the good of our country instead of the ones that stsab us in the back.