Robert Kagan: "The World America Made"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-02-13/robert-kagan-world-america-made
The economic collapse of 2008, two costly wars, and a gridlocked Congress have led many to conclude that America is on the decline. The rise of China to global superpower status has caused more anxiety and prompted some to predict a “Post-American” world. Foreign policy strategist Robert Kagan disagrees. He says America’s decline is a myth unsupported by the economic and political reality: the United States is still the richest country in the world and has played a singular role in the rising tide of liberal democracies. Robert Kagan on “The World America Made.”
Guests
Robert Kagan
senior fellow, Foreign Policy, Brookings Center on the United States and Europe
Related Items
Program Highlights
In his new book, "The World America Made," Kagan rejects the notion that the U.S. is in decline. He warns Americans that allowing large-scale military spending cuts is preemptive super power suicide. Robert Kagan joined Diane to talk about why he thinks America is not in decline.
"We're As Powerful As We've Been Since World War II"
We're constantly seeking renewal, Kagan said, which in his view is one of the most positive characteristics of our nation. He thinks the challenges we're facing as a nation now are overstated. "I believe that if you look at our power, in terms of our military power, in terms of our economic power, our share of the world's growth, and in terms of our political influence, I think that we're as powerful as we've been since World War II."
The Fragility Of The Democratic Process
The "explosion of democracy" we've seen since WWII, Kagan said, is an anomaly in human history. In 1941, there were about a dozen democracies. Today, there are about 115. "It's not just the natural product of human evolution much as we might like to think so. That is based on the fact that the balance of power in the world has favored the democracies, the balance of power which is fundamentally built around the United States and its democratic allies," he said. If we see a weakening of the U.S., though, which includes an autocratic China and Russia, Kagan thinks we will see that balance shift.
The Size Of The Defense Budget
Kagan thinks the Obama administration's proposed cuts to the defense budget could be catastrophic for the U.S. military and have the potential to severely weaken the role we've been performing in the world. We have to be careful and not think the defense budget is the place to solve our
fiscal crisis because the cuts that we make in defense are a drop in the bucket compared to our overall deficit, Kagan said. "It's entitlement spending that drives that," he said. The damage the proposed cuts could do to our military capacity, he believes, would be significant.
Support For The Iraq War: Hindsight
"I make mistakes. But I can only call it the way I see it," Kagan said of his support for the Iraq War. Today, he doesn't think it was a mistake to go in, but he doesn't agree with the way the war was conducted. The Bush administration and Donald Rumsfeld, he said, were looking for a rapid way out. "They were looking to do it on the cheap, and we paid a very high price for that," Kagan said.
You can read the full transcript here.
Comments
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As a neo-conservative cheerleader for the George W. Bush fiasco in Iraq, Robert Kagan should be eating MRE's and dodging rockets in Iraq with our current State Department employees, not spreading his latest delusional fantasies on NPR.
I'll be listening in the hope that this won't be Project for a New American Century in new clothes - but I won't hold my breath because Kagan and his buddies at PNAC are the people who had laid the intellectual ground for invading Iraq, even before 9/11.
The biggest problem America has is crushing debt that it will never pay back. Dollars are loaned into existence, and many have been created to prop up the banks and the economy.
The banks are allowed to use government accounting fraud to make them look solvent. Most U.S. states are not only flat broke but underwater with massive debt loads.
You cannot fight a debt crisis with never-ending bailouts and currency creation.
Prepare yourself for another hour of softball questioning, aimed at promoting a fraudulent book of deceit.....these guys (neo-cons) are nothing but a pack of pathological liars.
As someone who is left of center, I doubt I'd agree with Robert Kagan on a whole lot. However, you can't deny history. We should be PROUD of the moderating force for good (on balance) that the US has played in general and the military specifically.
As someone who is left of center, I doubt I'd agree with Robert Kagan on a whole lot. However, you can't deny history. We should be PROUD of the moderating force for good (on balance) that the US has played in general and the military specifically.
Mr. Kagan,
Could you please comment on what might be understood as "shared Power" with corporate interests and influences on the quality of both American foreign and domestic policies.
Thank you.
Mr. Kagan's model that the US must maintain military superiority over China is not sustainable. All estimates are they will outspend us with 10-12 years. Even allowing for a learning curve beyond money, they will be at parity or greater militarily within 2 decades.
Does reducing our aircraft carrier force to 10 groups from 11 really encourage the Chinese to invade Taiwan? Will Japan be subject to invasion if we take our troops out? Does Kagan see massed tank battles and amphibious invasions as a realistic war scenario? How many nuclear missile subs do we need to deter a nuclear attack? You say 50 billion dollars is a drop in the bucket. But how many teachers, Arab language specialists, drone research studies could we buy for 50 billion dollars?
The US is spending more on its military than the next 7 nations combined. Only a small part is needed for defense, the rest projects economic power overseas, mainly for the benefit of a small percent of very wealthy. Meanwhile so many other things are in decline - where is our energy policy, what about infrastructure, and our schools continue to under perform many other countries.
There are many definitions of "power" beyond military. A healthy, educated populous, a structurally sound infer-structure, an engaged society that realizes we are citizens of the world, not rulers of it, a sustainable energy policy, etc. If we had all of those (if we funded all of these) is there any doubt that people WOULD look towards America as the world leader? We have to start thinking in terms of elevating the quality of life, the quality of our thinking. If we want to lead the world, then we must also lead by example by investing in the health and well being of all citizens and start thinking about how to save the world, rather than how to exploit it.
No one should kid themselves, republicans and democrats are equally pro military industrial complex. Democrats just pretend their not.
I could have guessed that mr. kagan was a romney adviser without being told, but actually the differences between romney and obama on military policy seem more rhetorical than real.
If I understand it right, Mr. Kagan is noting the beneficial impact on the world peace, and prosperity to some extent, by democracies flourishing under a strong benevolent power.
He appears to tolerate excesses committed by the military overseas, apparently allows them as collateral damages.
Would that not be a reincarnation of the British Empire, which was also supported by a domestic democracy (don't we call them the oldest democracry!) which had no problems with the likes of East India Company raising armies and defending its
rights to conduct commerce (to its liking, and benefit of the folks back home)
Now, coming to entitlements debate... one may say that nothing should be wrong if the poor (who, in the name of a voluntary army, provide most of the military manpower at the bottom rungs - taking in disproportionately higher casualties, both physically and emotionally), want their "share of the bounty" in form of entitlements!
I will just simply boycott this book and the author who is obviously bios and paranoid about China. I would strongly suggest him to study Chinese 5000+ years history and learn about Chinese people who are PEACE seekers, who are NOT aggressive!! It is TRUE that Chinese has NEVER proactively invade a country. Chinese might response a threat by force, so do every other country from history.
Just want to put my two cents here. I'm just very concerned that most people that speak about social cuts denied that we spend to much on government and military. If we closed the majority of the military bases around the world we would have more then enough to take care of the elderly and even lower the retirement age vs. taking up 1 or two years. If we also get rid off the corruption in social services and invest that in services for the elderly and education we will be allot better off in the future. We also need to stop giving some many billions of dollars to other countries, just so that we maintain our hold on the world, when we know that is no longer possible. Lets start concentrating on the future of our people, here in America. I believe if we continue this path we will go into a 3rd world country status (and everyone hating us), instead of staying as one of the strong countries of the world, that are willing to give and take and have mutual respect for those countries..
Greetings Diane and Mr. Kagan, I apologize for the slightly off topic question, but here it is anyway.
Is there a good reason we cannot combine the humanitarian services (medical, legal, financial planning, etc.) of the military with our current entitlement programs?
As a side note, I am prior service in the medical field and currently work in the civilian medical industry; I know there is “bandwidth” in the military workload to handle many additional needs.
The guest is right about Israel not being able to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon. They don't have the bases close enough or the heavy bomber capability. It would be up to the US and/or NATO, ASSUMING that Iran intends to build and bomb and is capable of it (neither is proven).
The 'World that America made' is disingenuous at best and Kagan knows this...this World is controlled by a Kabul of foreign bankers whose main intent is that of total control by a One World Government.
No shortage of people wanting to preserve the status quot by taking credit for all the good and in the same breath unwilling to accept any responsibility for the bad.
tibet
The US has used aircraft carriers to project our power around the world. The Chinese are developing anti-ship ballistic missiles that will make carriers as obsolete as battleships in last century. Carrier battle groups are obsolete (or will be very soon).
Mellen, Dallas
I have patiently and passively absorbed any insight Robert Kagan might have had to share and now I know his book is a worthless cartoon prospectus of American nationalism and militarism. Three truths negate this delusional man's predictions:
1. Quickly impending ecological crisis
2. The general awakening and worldwide demand for grassroots democracy
3. The fact that ownership and control of banking and manufacturing in China is at present in large part in the hands of the same Oligarchy menacing our citizenry here
No one should buy or read this diversionary Neocon trash, and I'm ashamed of Diane for hosting such a menace to informed and rational thought.
You'd think an NPR show depending on listeners for funding would not sell-out but this one has the gall to accept underwriting from Frackfocus. Shame on you and Robotkagan. Oligarchs don't care for you at all either, and soon they will show you how little.
There is a difference between the defense "budget" and defense "expenditures". This distorts the conversation. We have take the surpluses in Social Security and used them to fund the Iraqi and other wars. If we had not done that and defense expenditures were authentically accounted for the defense "budget" would a much higher percentage of the debt and/or budget. Now we pretend that we have spent the money on Social Security when we actually spent money intended for Social Security benefits on the war. An honest conversation must take this into account.
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
"Three truths negate this delusional man's predictions:
1. Quickly impending ecological crisis
2. The general awakening and worldwide demand for grassroots democracy
3. The fact that ownership and control of banking and manufacturing in China is at present in large part in the hands of the same Oligarchy menacing our citizenry here"
In your "truths" I find exaggerations, misguided interpretations and outlandish conspiracy theories, in that order.
Many of the same neocons like Robert Kagan who helped talk us into invading Iraq, arguably the worst foreign policy mistake in recent history, are now beating the war drums, claiming that we and/Israel have no choice but to attack Iran. No mention is ever made of Israel's stockpile of an estimated 75 to 400 nuclear warheads. Attacking Iran might well be an even bigger mistake than our needless, foolish costly invasion of Iraq. When will the foreign policy establishment ever learn?
[I'm a fan and regular listener but, in my opinion, giving a platform to Robert Kagan isn't doing our country any favor.]
In my humble opinion, when you look at the whole picture, America has been good for this planet.
Over and over again, Mr. Kagan said "America is not perrfect, far from it" and "We've made many mistakes in the world". Meanwhile, His favored candidate for President, Willard Romney is going around claiming that President Obama has repeatedly "apologized" for America, a claim that has been debunked by media watchdogs. Which is it?
Kagen is working to elect Romney who's campaign receives huge funds from defense contractors who want to keep their massive gravy train of gov't funds flowing. Our democracy is being supplanted by the likes of Kagen and all the other political hacks who represent themselves as expressing a viewpoint when in reality they are paid spokesmen for corporate interests. A free and independent media was supposed to protect Americans from this, but most of the media itself has been hijacked. NPR certainly does the best job being nonpartisan but even they often hold back the hard questions out of fear of attack from the neo-conservative PR machine. Diane Rehm does a better job than most but I would have liked to have heard more questions to Kagen about his conflicts of interest. A good example of these paid political viewpoints can be seen in the documentary Hot Coffee where they show how Karl Rove secured campaign funds for Bush in return for Bush promoting tort reform.
Who is Obama listening to all of those who pushed for the invasion of Iraq. Not smart.
Too bad Obama listening to Kagan part of the team who pushed the WMD lies in the run up to the invasion.
Who is one going to listen to Kagan or Dr.Zbig?
Obama is not showing any spine and not facing the facts. The US has been on decline no matter how Kagan and his "noble lie" friends want to encourage denial.