Objections to Reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-02-13/objections-reauthorizing-violence-against-women-act
The widely praised Violence Against Women Act faces a tough reauthorization battle. Though introduced in a bipartisan way, it passed the Senate Judiciary Committee on a party-line vote with all the Democrats voting to move it to the full Senate and all the Republicans voting against. Diane will speak to the chair of the committee and cosponsor of the bill, Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont. Diane and a panel of experts will examine VAWA and why some object to provisions of the act which include gay, transgendered and undocumented immigrants.
Guests
Senator Patrick Leahy
Democratic Senator from Vermont
Janice Shaw Crouse
Senior Fellow at the Beverly LaHaye Institute, the think tank for Concerned Women for America.
Terry O'Neill
president of the National Organization for Women
Amy Myers
professor and director of the Domestic Violence Clinic at the Washington College of Law at American University.
Comments
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Diane,
The Fatherhood Coalition in Massachusetts opposes re-authorization of VAWA.
It is fundamentally flawed, assuming that all men are inherently batterers and all women victims. Study after study, as well as our real world experience, tell us that both women and men are capable of and engage in violence on nearly equal levels. VAWA is a sexist discriminatory law favoring one gender over the other.
It is unconstitutional. Under the concurrent state laws funded by VAWA due process rights are thrown out the window-no right to discovery of evidence, no right to a jury trial- while being subject to the most egregious punishment such as loss of one's children, eviction from home, potential loss of employment, possible incarceration and financial ruin.
The 'violence' under the law is so elastic as to include normal human behavior that every person has engaged in at some point in time-such raising your voice, arguing over finances- actions which include no violence but are labeled as such by the law.
Some judges estimate that more than 90% of the cases brought under the law are without merit. In Massachusetts, where some 30-50,000 orders are issued every year that is far too many individuals caught up in the court system with all of the serious negative ramifications without cause.
VAWA embodies the scenario of Tom Cruise's movie 'Minority Report' where guilt is decided upon before a crime is committed. This should be repugnant to every American.
VAWA funded laws destroys family by legislating that once a complaint is filed there is no reconciliation even for the most minor of disagreements.
We thank the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee for opposing reauthorization.
Joe Ureneck
Chair, The Fatherhood Coalition
857 350-0575
www.fatherhoodcoalition.org
www.fatherhoodcoalition.org/newsite
Diane - I hope your show today offers diversity in point of view. All too often what I have seen is the lack of willingness for the media to speak up for men and boys. We surely see this in the VAWA where the claims abound of gender neutrality but when the rubber meets the road there are very few services for men or boys.
In my state of Maryland the state police keep records of victims of domestic violence. They area very clear. They record that men are 25% of the victims. This estimate is low when compared to peer reviewed research and to government sponsored surveys like the recent one by CDC where men and women are more like 50-50 in victimization. It is simply a fact that men comprise a substantial portion of the victims of domestic violence and yet if you look at the services available you will notice right off that there is very little for men. As a clinician I approached my local domestic violence services years ago about this lack of service for men and was treated like I had leprosy. They would hear none of it and frankly, even today, I get a similar response. This calls for a humanistic response to the problem of domestic violence, not one based on only helping one sub-set of victims.
The research of Denise Hines is critical in understanding this dilemma. Hines followed numerous males who were victims of domestic violence and found that the vast majority of them, when they approached domestic violence services, were rejected and told that they only served women. Worse yet, a large portion of these men were told that they were the abuser and given contact information for perpetrators! This is the climate we now live in and it needs to change.
http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/dhines/Douglas%20%20Hines%202011%20helpsee...
Things need to change.
Tom Golden
Diane:
This was a tough one and I do not usually go along with another commenter, but in this case I have to go with some of the comments of Joe Ureneck, the representative of the Fatherhood Coalition about the underlying assumptions of perpetrator versus victim. In San Francisco I was on the Commission on the Status of Women and we dealt with issues around domestic violence in the early days of the ‘70s and ‘80s. So biased were many of the judges with regard to men, their children, custody, support, etc, that I wound up founding with the help of a Walnut Creek labor lawyer, himself in the throes of divorce, Divorce for Men Only. Women are statistically still victimized with domestic violence, but there are some other stories to tell, especially with women using the children and visitation as ransom for money. One of the reasons a number of men walk away and disappear from their children’s lives. It becomes a literal “pay to play” venture.
Kathleen Rand “Kate” Reed
Something is seriously wrong with this act. Some years ago, I accompanied my daughter to court to obtain a restraining order against her then boyfriend. Despite the fact that I am a DOVE trained attorney, the court clerk would NOT permit me to assist her in filing her paperwork. Instead, they send out a LAY DV person to help her. It was ridiculous, as I represented her in the hearing.
I also know from representing many men that these things are commonly filed to gain an advantage in a custody or divorce hearing. The judiciary in my state know this, yet do nothing about it.
As a person who witnessed abuse of my mother, I cannot stress enough that there are many forms of abuse and domestic violence: physical, emotional, sexual, and psychological. For anyone to say that physical violence is the only form that should be protected against does not realize how damaging and life crippling the other forms can be, and how they can often serve as the gateway to more physical forms. Bruises, cuts and scars are more obvious on the outside, but the other forms are more easily concealed and far more long term. And yes I do agree that women should not be the exclusive victim focus for this, but rather all should be considered.
Conservatives have targeted all social needs,and all social groups for demolition. Like the brass ring,it is within reach come the November election.If we allow the destruction of everything that separates the United States from the tyrants of the world,we haven`t saved a few bucks,but lost who we are.
One in five women have been raped and one in four have been domestically abused. To focus on the fact that a small percentage of women have lied about domestic abuse is to overlook the overwhelming number of women who are being abused every day. These women are often isolated, terrified and worried that nobody will help them. Let's not confirm their fears.
I disagree with the comment by the conservative speaker that men are not protected and not believed. My sister, 5'2" was in an abusive relationship for decades. She had reported her abuse on several occasions but her bully husband made her drop the charges. She stayed in the marriage for the sake of her 2 sons. When she finally fought back and pushed he 6'1 husband in the pool she was arrested and put in jail. He never dropped the charges and when he divorced her he got the house and custody since she had domestic violence on her record. Her 2 sons are now their father's sons--abusive misogynists.
How can women be conisdered so 'equal' to men that they can protect the country by serving in the military, including in combat, but they need special laws to protect them in their private lives?
Rather inconsistent. And where is 'equal protection under the law' for men?
The reason why this kind of garbage legislation doesn't do anything is because there are already laws on the books to deal with criminal activities related to violence against women or anyone else. It is stupid to think government can and should try to involve itself in trying to prevent the inevitable, and by the way were broke.
Diane,
I am not very familiar with the act. Are there any provisions in the act to respond to same sex domestic violence situations? This seems to be the failing of many local and state domestic violence laws and programs.
Fully appreciate your show today, Dianne. A closer view of the one-sidedness of the laws governing domestic issues such as this seems to me overdue. My Stepson suffered several years of a physically abusive marriage in silence, partly because of the authorities' ineptness to protect his simple personal rights, and partly because of the stigma attached to a big burly male asking for police and court protection from an 110lb spouse. Please ask either of your guests if they have any wonderful statistics that cover the number of men that do not report abuses due to be being brought up in a generation that not only doesn't hit girls...but does not tell anyone when they are abused by one.
We cannot overlook the difference in strength between men and women. Most men (like my exhusband) can throw a woman around like a ragdoll with a woman physically unable to protect herself. Even a much stronger than average woman cannot defend herself from an average strength man.
I think changing the social stigma associated with being the victem of violence will decrease the instance of violance. The perpetrator of violance needs to feel shame not the victum. Unfortunately too often the victem feels shame not the perpatrator.
As a community child psychiatrist for 31 years in Southeastern Michigan, I've come to understand that violence in the home is very complicated business. Addressing what happens in a home in Wayne County Michigan, for example, is not helped if 'what happens' is not carefully assessed by competent and experienced professionals.
I appreciate the thoughtful comments of Janice Shaw Crouse who understands that the solution to interpersonal problems takes place at the local level. The nationalization of local problems necessarily ignores the fact that local problems require the coordination of social services, the police, and mental health professionals.
What's missing is that effective mental health services for families and children in America have vanished.
Diane,
The guest who is opposed to VAWA spotlights one major problem in dealing with domestic violence. Saying that a partner dealing with verbal abuse isn't what VAWA was meant for is incorrect. DV is, at it's core, about control and that is exerted in all forms: verbal, emotional, financial and certainly physical. This fact seems to be lost on the community at large, the judiciary, and it seems, the legislature. After working in domestic violence for 12 years, I still do not know the solutions to end it but certainly diminishing what the victims go through is not one of them.
All the violence that I have seen personally and had to interact with was women hanging on to men, hanging on to their car handles, not letting go, being drug off and running after when the men want to get away as they are all taught to do when dealing with women. And as a woman, I had to pull two women off the car door handles of men who just needed to get away. Other men who saw came to assist me when they saw I was struggling holding on to a fighting woman, and we held the two women so they wouldn't continue to act out , and the male could get away without having to run through red lights. Only when the male was free, could we, or the men, not me, 'escort' the distraught and acting out woman to safety, and wait for some friend to come assist her to stop her behavior. This is something we have all seen and experienced. Men should call for assistance when they have bad news or have back up when dealing with women of a certain age and disposition to act out. At least have backup, so they can get away without having to push the female, especially when the women are klinging onto the legs, and will be bruised when you try to twist their hands and arms to get them off of you.
I have a friend who saw this with two lesbians that were her neighbors, complete with breaking up and throwing porch furniture through plate glass doors. You would think they were on a testosterone rage.
25 years ago, during a time when my impluse control had been affected by brain injury, I told my doctor that I was concerned because I had begun punching my husband in the arm to emphasize a point I was trying to make during arguments. He laughed and said that he doubted that I could possibly hurt him. It was hard to explain that injuring him was the point, because I was worried that I would escalate, as I had learned happened in relationships. The doctor still dismissed my worry. I learned management on my own, but my experience made me very aware of how strong denial about hurting one's spouse can be in the community, when an apparently loving couple could hide abuse.
The females I have seen get abused, were kept isolated. Police should bring special vehicle to put offender in, show them film, and show them how their neighbors will now feel free to step in. Let van operate like R2D2, flashing lights to signal to the neighbors, that a situation is going on, and a stand down is being held. That frees others to respond when they see something 'not right' in the future, to step in and stare down the offender. In towns where there are brothers and uncle around with their eyes open, a guy knows he can't get away with this. Neighbors need to stand by and stare down the offender, give an isolated woman free and clear passage, like UN Peace Keeping Forces.
The 250 studies referred to by your guest that somehow equate violence by men and women flies in the face of some obvious facts. You don't match women against men in boxing, football, soccer, tennis, basketball...and a host of others for an obvious reason. 100 backhands from men will result in many more hospital visits then 100 backhands from women. It's a simple matter of physics. I've been teaching women's self defense for almost 20 years, and I'm pretty familiar with this impact difference.
Violence against women by men carries this understanding by the perpetrators as it is an expression of control.
There are not men shelters overflowing because they are hiding from their violent partners.
Domestic violence against women follows the assumption that women are killers of sacred seed and need no protection in the form of birth control. Until the approved intrusions into women's bodies, bedrooms and doctor's offices, comes to an end the violence will be condoned. Encouraged? Yes!
Diane & Panel,
I am a male and was almost a victim of VAMA by my Russian fiancé. After the 18 month visa program which she dragged out as I was supporting her and her family for that time. She arrived and started trying to control me and my family.
She walked out thee door 2 weeks later and I called 911, Domestic Dispute. She stated to the officer that interviewed her that there was ‘no abuse’. Later after free counsel, she found she could try to use VAWA and claim mental abuse which she tried to do. Her Russian girlfriends who knew us both were shocked.
I strongly suggest to all men to call in Domestic Abuse reports so that a police report can be recorded.
Bottom line was that she didnt realize VMA can only be used after marriage, so although the whole experience cost me thousands, I feel I was one of the lucky ones.
T.V. Kendra
Women are still more likely to be the victims of abuse. This does not ignore the fact that men are often abused, but acknowledges the realty that women are statisically more likely to be domestically abused. If you want to create more bills and add more funding to ensure that men aren't left out of the services, great! But don't yank funding from the one in four women in this country who need it.
This Act strikes against the heart of the traditional family: the unchallangeable authority of the head of the family over those subject to his Godly authority by virtue of their having been made weaker or of poorer judgement: women, children, pets, hand-maidens....
Much as the only argument for some notions is the volume of the proponent's voice, how are we to pass on our Traditional Values without the threat of violence? A good chunk of those values make no sense at all, or run against basic primate notions of fairness, or are basically abhorrent to the Enlightenment-based values the less blinkered of our Founders preferred, and are really only good for those on top.
These, the Old Ways so many of us treasure so well, must have the threat of violence to keep them going---are we to abandon this Treasure merely for the sake of rationality, decency, and 'improvement' of the human condition (as measured by mere humans, as opposed to the higher authority of voices in shepherds' heads a few millenia back)?
I do not understand why a men's organization would oppose what is an important element of the fight against domestic violence. I would think, instead, their efforts would be to fully include men and to raise the awareness of the public to the incidence of violence agianst men. I also do not understand how Concerned Women of America can show so little actual concern for women. These real life situations should not be ignored or minimized by adopting the same old canard about "throwing money at a problem". In our society almost everything costs money. To deny money is to deny attention.
Prevention should be in the heart of any bill to protect women and men from domestic violence. Unfortunately, we don't all grow up in households that have healthy relationships. Perhaps in the health classes that seem to be included in school curriculum, students could be taught the warning signs and a safe place to speak out if they are being abused at home or by a boy or girlfriend.
I am 64 years old and was abused physically and mentally for 17 years by my husband. Even though my family knew, I didn't get out until all the damage was done to my children and me. Young girls and women are so vulnerable.
Could teachers be taught to recognize signs of abuse in their students to reach out to them. It all stems from low self esteem.
Its amazing how a single unmarried woman can sit on Ms Reems show and support a fallacy which tells amerikkka that race, culture, documentation and finances can show who will become a battered or murdered person? All of this based on some so called study which is a bunch of gobbly goop which involves efforts to prevent the prosecution of the well off and middle class etc, thereby seeking to only punish others of a different persuation Shame on u!
The issue with the guests questionable ideas is to criminalize the poor, and force them to say and do things which further destroy families..Since when does a prosecutor ask for the race culture or economic standard of a victim? This is what i basically hear? help me someone make me wrong? good Job Diane
Republicans oppose VAWA the way it's written and have added amendments to it that Democrats rejected. One of these is to make this bill's funding more accountable. Spot audits in the past have shown a large percentage of funds being spent without documentation and many cases were seen of unallowed expenditures. The DV industry is fighting this. Why? Call your senators and ask the Grassley's version be accepted. He wants more accountability and random audits of where our taxpayer funds go. Also, his version will address the problem of immigrants coming here to "fall in love" in order to then claim DV and get their green card.
One caller asked about false allegations and the topic was ignored. It is not a minor issue. Estimates have the majority of DV claims to be false, especially when divorce is involved. VAWA promotes this through funding of "assumption of male guilt" and mandatory arrests. No evidence required. Just guilt by accusation.
Senator Leahy stated that no segment of society is being denied help. That is a lie. Men are being denied help all the time. If they call in a DV claim, they are denied help because they are males. They are even told they are probably the batterer and need to seek help for their problem. Many times they are arrested at the scene even though they are the victim solely because they are men. VAWA encourages this with funding.
Those on the show again misrepresnted the studies. Based on the recent CDC survey, the 12 months before the survey shows that men and women are equally victimized by DV. 44% of recipients of severe violence are men. And while men are stronger, many women use objects, surprise (sleep), and get other men to do their fighting. Yet, VAWA routinely funds agencies that turn men away. VAWA funds school education of DV however, only men are given classes on how to stop violence. Women are not even though they make up half the purpertrators. This bias must stop. Accountability of funds must be assured.
What is opposed is how the money is being spent. Many spot audits recently have shown much of the money is being spent without any documentation and in many cases the money was seen spent on unallowable items. The Republicans have added an amendment which includes the DV industry being held more accountable. The DV industry is fighting this. Why? What are they trying to hide? I know a woman that was a victim and sought help. She got the run around and was never truly given proper assistance. True victims are being denied help. Men are routinely denied help. False allegations are rampant especially in divorce cases. Men are rendered bankrupt, homeless and childless many times due to funding by VAWA of "automatic male guilt". By reauthorizing VAWA the way it is written, these things will just continue. Men's organizations are fighting for raising awareness of the plight of women abusing men. It is the likes of those on the show that continue to spew out distorted one-sided statistics. They continue to trivialize male abuse as they did on the show. The DV industry and feminist groups never ever state that the DV agencies should accept men. They oppose funding being used for male shelters. They oppose funding be used to educate women to stop violence against men. They only want education to teach men how to stop men abusing women. So before you blame men's orgs for not caring about women, look at the facts. The women's groups have little concern for men, not the other way around. We want funding to help ALL victims, men and women.
Hi Dianne,
I am a man who was battered by his wife for 10 years. The police told me to come back when I was bleeding. When she beat me bloody in front of our kids, the police sent her to a hotel for three days. After that, she promised that if I ever reported her again she would injure herself and accuse me of domestic violence. When we were divorcing, she made a false accusation to 911, I was only saved by multiple conflicts in her story. The police refused to press charges against her because they didn't want to discourage women from reporting domestic violence.
My son, who was also beaten by his mother, was falsely accused last fall of sexual assault by a girl in his class because he refused to go out with her. Although she was proven to have lied, she will suffer no discipline. My son, the real victim, will have this on his disciplinary record until he graduates.
If you doubt the gender bias in today's culture, consider for a second that the Dannon yogurt company sponsored a superbowl add featuring female against male domestic violence because, as the company said, they wanted "to appeal to women". The bar I was at errupted in laughter when this commercial played, with many of the women high-fiving and saluting each other in solidarity of violence against men. Imagine the outrage if the genders in the add were reversed.
Will
In Domestic Violence, the laws of physics work against men. I was battered for 10 years, I NEVER hit back, even once. I knew that the smallest mark on her, even in self defense, would have landed me in jail. The bigger you are, the less sympathy you garner. I can tell you from experience that female backhands hurt, but being mauled with car keys and pushed into a door hook hurt worse.
You are exactly right that DV is an expression of control. The belittling and humiliation is much worse than the physical injury. She threatened to injure herself and accuse me of domestic violence if I reported her or left. When we were finally divorcing, she made the call. Although she was caught in a lie, the police refused to press charges against her because they did not want to discourage women from reporting domestic violence.
there are not men shelters overflowing because there are not men shelters