Language, Music and the Brain
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-01-25/language-music-and-brain
Learning new skills in adulthood may seem like a daunting task. Over time there is a gradual decline of the brain’s ability to absorb new information. But experts say, with the right tools and a few tricks, we can continue to grasp and retain information as we age. The process of learning a language or how to play a new instrument offers interesting insights into the challenge. Two experts join us to talk about how mastering new and complex skills differs as we age and what it takes to become a lifelong learner.
Guests
Gary Marcus
Professor of psychology, the director of the New York University Center for Language and Music, and author of "Guitar Zero: The New Musician and the Science of Learning."
Michael Erard
author of "Babel No More: The Search for the World's Most Extraordinary Language Learners"
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Program Highlights
Ever dream of learning a new language or to play an instrument, but felt it was too late? There might be hope. Two new books offer a glimpse into what the brain is capable of and offer some tricks to learning new skills, even in adulthood. Gary Marcus, author of the new book titled "Guitar Zero: The New Musician and the Science of Learning," and Michael Erard, the author of "Babel No More: The Search for the World's Most Extraordinary Language Learners" talk about how older adult brains learn new, complex skills.
Our Innate Abilities
Marcus thinks that just as humans are born with a capacity to learn language, we can also learn music. It just takes most people a little longer to figure out the abstract nature of music. Moreover, Marcus thinks that our ability to learn language actually contributes to our ability to learn music. Erard has done research on people who speak many languages, and found that they generally have hig proficiency in a certain group of languages, middling proficiency in others, and somewhat limited proficiency in something he calls "surge languages" that they need to activate in memory to be able to use. Erard said such people may be able to create and retrieve memories more quickly, and that there is overlap between how the brain learns languages and how it learns musical skills.
Language And Music Draw In All Parts Of The Brain
Learning a language engages all parts of the brain, Erard said. Erard wrote about a man who won a contest in Brussels in 1990 to find the "most multilingual" European. A Scottish church organist, Derick Heming. Heming could converse with native speaker judges in 22 languages. Erard said Heming has what he calls a "will to plasticity," which is a commitment to having a different brain tomorrow than the one he had yesterday. People like Heming, Erard said, don't have language barriers like most people.
In Music, Focusing On Weaknesses Is Key
In music, as with other skills, Marcus found that those who focused on their weaknesses show the most improvement. Anders Ericsson called this "deliberate practice." "Regardless of what strategy you use, you can't just sit there rehearsing things you already know," he said. Also, children do have some advantages when first learning an instrument. Their expectations for how good they will sound is lower, so they just keep practicing. Adults want to sound good right away. The lack of self-consciousness, then, is really a great benefit for kids, Marcus said.
The Minute Learning Is Not Fun, People Stop
Marcus spoke to several teachers during the course of his research, and one of his favorites, a Suzuki music teacher named Michelle Homer, tries to encourage parents not to discourage their children when they practice their instrument. Homer tells parents not to correct their children unless they've made the same mistake three times. "That's all about keeping the learning process fun," Marcus said. "The minute it's not fun, people stop," he said.
You can read the full transcript here.
Comments
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Can your guests speak about the best way to learn new languages? Does software like Rosetta Stone work or are classroooms better?
I friend 8 year old autistic son reads, writes and understands
several languages including portuguese and japanese. He love classical music especially mathematically complicated scores by Bartok and Chopin.
However he does not speak. Can you comment to this?
I notice from the multilingual people I know -- and even from my own experience, with the other language that I know best and use most readily -- that people who communicate well in many languages often seem to have less of the (supposedly natural) self-consciousness about making errors. Native speakers are actually rather tolerant of errors if someone is conscientiously and earnestly trying to communicate. I'd say that stereotypes of maligned tourists aren't really borne out, as people mostly seem pleased at the effort being made, and multilingual people don't appear (to me) to worry as much as others about making some small or even larger mistake.
I love what one of your guests said about people who keep learning -- languages, musical instruments and singing styles, games, complex skills and crafts -- is that they "desire to have a different brain tomorrow than they have today." I want to have that desire and that kind of brain! Thank you for a wonderful show.
I am partially tone deaf. How much of a problem would this cause learning languages like Japanese or an instrument? Is the brain plastic enough to overcome this problem?
Have your guests found differences in the way monolingual speakers' brains process language versus people who speak two or more language? As I recall, when a person learns a second language, the right side of the brain begins to develop language centers (i.e., Broccass and Wernickes) similar to those on the left. Thus, once a second language is learned, it is much easier to learn subsequent languages. As a speech-language pathologist, I knew of two multilingual patients who had left hemisphere strokes. They lost their ability to use their primary language but were fluent in their second (and in one person, third and fourth) languages because their right hemishperes were unaffected.
When my children were in school, they were involved in a Gifted Children's Program. The department head advised that I have them each take up an instrument and encourage them to play every day. She explained that the relationship between music and mathematics would keep their interest and would be like a sharpening for their math and other academic skills, while being a relief from boring study. Both picked up the playing of their instruments quickly, and did use their playing as a recess from studying.
I believe method does matter. There is a method called Simply Music that teaches students to play first then read, much like the way we learned to talk first and then read. Traditionally, music lessons started with reading first and then playing. The vast majority of those that go into this read first then play approach leave in the first year saying many different things. Many conclude they are not musical when in fact we are all musical.
Children naturally stay in the present, hence the easier learning of new skills. Right brain is all about 'staying in the present' whereas left brain is the logical, sequencing part of the brain.
I think most adults tend to become left-brain dominant, which might explain the difficulty in learning new skills such as a new language or an instrument (which requires 'staying in the present' significantly).
Being in the present is common for atheletes and sports-persons.
For example, I see a lot of similarity between Roger Federer playing tennis and Beethoven playing the 5th symphony.
Would be glad to hear your guests' thoughts on this.
My son, an opera singer, was highly trained as a musician, and subsequently became very good at the pronunciation (if not translation and understanding) of Italian, French, German and Russian. He is better able to understand than speak foreign languages extemporneously. The ear is the most important organ, but musical training especially refines the ear-brain connection.
Everyone should be exposed to, and get a bit of training in music performance.
If I learned to sing in a foreign language (as a way of learning that language), would the musical aspect reinforce the linguistic learning? Would I learn the language faster if I learned to sing it?
Stroke victims relearn language by singing -- why can't everyone do the same?
Does learning a computer programming language influence the brain in the same ways as verbal languages?
My son started learning Spanish in kindergarten, continued throughout high school and began to dream in Spanish. Would your guests like to comment on what this may mean, or what its significance may be?
There is a strong correlation between musical and language prodigies and autism. In a small sense this young man is very gifted. Hopeful he can be treated and educated to be able to adjust to our society and use his gifts for society's benefit as well as his own.
Movement skills have a rhythmic component in their development. The variations of the rate of travel, velocity of motion, or step [weight shift frequency] among other markers are cyclidic and rhythmic. The underlying beat is an internalized sensing that linking the basal ganglia to the cerebellum and more...
Visualization [just as the auditory awareness the authors referenced, occurs in movement development and nurturing.
We Move to Learn --> We Learn to Move---> we LEARN to LEARN! This is the Mission statement of kidskills.com where we seek to develop human skills to promote childhood health.
I'm a French teacher at a university and have taught at all levels from 1st grade to university, including a student who was a hyperpolyglot that your author needs to know about.
I've found that after puberty, it is much harder for children to accurately reproduce the french accent. Some can do it, and some can't. Before this time, virtually all children speak very accurately.
Jeannie Welch
Read "The Talent Code" it is precisely what this show is talking about...Every parent, teacher, or person trying to learn shoudl absolutely read this book!!!
What a wonderful program, thank you very much.
During The Diane Rehm Show segment on “Language, Music and the Brain” on January 25, it was inaccurately stated that Rosetta Stone does not offer any human interaction, which was deemed best for language learning. On the contrary, Rosetta Stone’s Version 4 TOTALe™ program offers Rosetta Studio™, which allows users to practice their speaking skills with other learners in live sessions tutored by native speakers in an interactive, online environment. Please feel free to visit www.rosettastone.com for more information about Rosetta Stone’s language-learning solutions.
Can anyone please tel me the music that was played at the end of the show today?