Hendrik Hartog: "Someday All This Will Be Yours"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-01-19/hendrik-hartog-someday-all-will-be-yours
Harvard University Press
We all hope that we will get the care we need through our old age. But these days, Social Security, Medicare, pensions and retirement plans seem less of a sure thing. Economic uncertainty is putting new pressure on adults to take on the responsibility of caring for their parents. This trend brings to mind a time before social safety nets. A century or more ago, the elderly had to rely on family for support. But this wasn’t always done out of love or duty. Sometimes a promise of inheritance was on the line. A look at family dynamics and old-age care giving in decades past.
Guests
Hendrik Hartog
professor of the History of American Law and Liberty at Princeton University.
Comments
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Anyone that hasn't seen the decline of these unsustainable(in their current incarnation) programs for the past twenty years has been sitting around with blinders on. Lets be real we all have known for quite some time that the lions share of our retirement would be on our shoulders. So buck up quit wasting your money on new cars and unreasonably sized homes and put 10-20 percent in long term investments. Oh why do I bother, I'm sure a group of people who know next to nothing about me are going to claim I'm a heartless capitalist again. Well if knowing the value of a dollar and putting it in your pocket instead on the counter makes me a heartless capitalist then I proudly wear that badge. And just to reiterate that was putting it in my pocket not the increasingly socialist government's.
In my family's experience, from my grandparents on back generations, people worked until they either dropped dead or were so sick they couldn't work anymore. Then, their family would support them in their homes. Most of the time, the children were not be able to finish their educations. They went to work to help put food on the table, a roof over the family's head, and pay for their elders' medical bills. Don't people remember what it was really like? Do we really want to go back to the "good old days?"
You want to talk about uncertainty, my wife is trying to retire from a job with the most fiscally stressed state of all, Illinois. After all the years she's given her all to her job, her admittedly generous (by current standards) pension, to which she's contributed a hefty portion of her salary all along, seems to be in jeopardy. She really doesn't deserve to be shortchanged.
I blame it on the politicians who year after year refused to fund the pension properly. But the truth is we all have a great deal of huckster in us. If you think Washington is a cess pool, try keeping your head high in a state where the last two governor's were sent to prison.
It has been a real gift to spend this time with my parents in their time of need. Have had a blast talking with other older folks who may look like no one is home at the facilities that my father has been at and the ones I decide to explore on my own. Have found over and over again that when you take the time you find a treasure trove of stories about union activities from the many retired GM workers that I have talked with, Holocaust story from a dear lady who escaped Hitlers killing machine, 80 and 90 year old Precious Blood nuns at Maria Josephs nursing home,Veterans stories etc etc. Do yourself a favor and visit the VA and other nursing homes you will not only be giving some lonely folks a gift you will grow and learn light years
mnemecek, yes, you are nothing but a "heartless capitalist". So am I!
In fact, the very principles you espouse were drilled into me by my parents. That is what is missing today. In fact, this is not "heartless captialism". In fact, it is compassionate to teach people the principles of looking after their financial health into the future instead of becoming part of the growing government slave class. Financial independence MEANS freedom. How could that EVER be a bad thing?
If seniors do not put their homes, their savings into their childrens or whomever they want to inherit these belongings names seven years before their relatives end up in a nursing home...the nursing home industry has access to these belongings.
Consume their inheritance indeed...unless the parents get it out of their names seven years before a parent needs nursing home care
Please advise your listeners that Professional Geriatric Care Managers are available to assist caregivers of the elderly to navigate the maze of health care options. More information about these professionals can be found at www.caremanager.org.
I have long been disturbed by the fact that elders move their assets into their children's names and then expect the government to cover their nursing home care.
Finally, listening to your guest I understand more clearly why this has made me uncomfortable
Current families seem to have forgotten the connection between caring for your elderly parents (financially) and then receiving their property in return.
Current families want to have it both ways.
This seems morally wrong to me. The property of the elder SHOULD be used for their own care.
Ken... St. Louis, MO...
How does how your parent(s) treated their kids factor in to if or not whether they will take care of their parents? My older brother, my younger sister and I are contemplating the care of our mother after a recent diagnosis of COPD. We are struggling with the way we were treated when we were younger to who will potentially take care of her. Needless to say, we were all abused and there is the dilema.
Thanks Diane and Mr. Hartog.
I have talked with plenty of seniors who have only paid into the system their whole lives, taxes, etc etc and end up in a nursing home and lost every bit of savings, home that they thought would go to their children who are unable to take care of them due to the need for the two people to work. Should they have to lose everything?
I have also met some seniors who did not pay into the system who have everything paid for by medicaid. How do we make it fair? Don't know. Do know that some of these private nursing homes are cleaning up by paying nurses aids pathetic wages and charging exorbitant prices (much of the cost going to the government) Stone Spring Systems in the Dayton OHio charging 9000.oo a month while the median price in Ohio for nursing homes in Ohio is around 6000.00 per bed per month. The government needs to put a cap on these cost and what private nursing homes can charge
My WWII 85 year old father had a serious fall 4 years ago and I have been helping take care of his needs as well as my mother who is still at homes needs. I have learned more about the independent, assisted living, nursing home world than I had ever thought about. Became so curious that I have now been into at least 20 different institutions. My father has been in 4 because we were unable to take care of his needs at home.
Have learned folks really need to start researching early. I have discoverd that may of the independent and assisted living facitlities are like college dorms for seniors. Food, activities and companionship. Really not so bad. Although the quality ranges from place to place and in cities the prices are competitive. In the Dayton OHio area the prices range from 1800 a month for a one bedroom to 2400.oo a month on up for a couple. More affordable than many think. Now in a town like Athens Ohio were there is little to no competition a place like Lindley can take seniors to the cleaners because on cost because they were the only assisted/independent game in town. When you get into the nursing home world (which is where my father is) the standard price is 6000.oo per bed per month. Most if not all residents are on partical or having all paid by medicaid. My parents ran through their savings in three years paying for nursing home cost and now their 4500.oo dollar monthly income (pensions, social security) is split between the two of them. They were both union workers, played the game straight paying taxes, barely ever using credit cards, buying their home on a thirty year mortgage. Half of their monthly income now going to my mothers overhead and the rest going to the nursing home my father is now in. But get this the nursing home he is in now is called Stone Spring (the guy who owns these has 10 of these places in the Dayton/Cincinnati Ohio area) While I said earlier most beds in Ohio's nursing homes are 6000.oo per bed this place (
Stonespring charges 9000.00 per bed pr month. Most if not all of the residents are partial medicaid pays (get real at 6 or 9 thousand a month most people no matter how much they have saved will be on partial medicaid this is a reality that people need to be aware of) This place is visibly more beautiful, new etc but the care, the food is really no better than where my father was before. We had moved him based on their advertising, spin, hoped to have better care. But that is not happenning. My point is that taxpayers (government) are paying these prices to private health care institutions. After pensions etc are used to pay the monthly cost. Why is it that a private instituion like StoneSpring can charge 9000.oo (medicaid paying a good chunck of that monthly cost) Medicare/Medicaid needs to put a ceiling on what these places can charge.
Have asked many international students studying at Ohio University in Athens Ohio what they think the positives and negatives are about the US. They are often careful with their criticisms but almost all of the students that I have talked with think we treat our elders disrespectfully...disregard them. They don't understand why our elders feel like they are a burden. Please talk about the difference between other cultures attitudes towards their elderly
I think you are missing a vast segment of society as you discuss caregivers. There is a huge number of caregivers made up of people who end up providing for their parents financially and physically when they expected to be enjoying a period of freedom in their own lives after years of raising children and working. As I care for my 90 year old mother in a retirement community in Dallas I see far fewer young folks (referred to as the sandwich generation) than those in their 50s, 60s, or even 70s who are now caring for their parents. The repercussions are enormous for these people in terms of their own emerging health, financial, and quality of life issues and I believe it is an untapped story.
One of the saddest realities is that far too often, family members who were absent or unwilling to help when an elderly relative's needs were obvious have a sense of entitlement when the time comes to distribute an inheritance. They want equal--not fair--shares when they did little or nothing to sustain the parent or other relative's personal needs, whether emotional or physical or economic.
kathleen wrote:
"If seniors do not put their homes, their savings into their childrens or whomever they want to inherit these belongings names seven years before their relatives end up in a nursing home...the nursing home industry has access to these belongings. "
Kathleen, thanks for that. Actually it's medicaid that can do the look-back. We did that with my mother. At that time, (the 90's) it was a three year look back. It was a knotty legal process because she had to "gift" her belongings into a trust on which she was not a trustee, but only my brothers and myself were. She trusted us implicitly and we always took the point of view that "it's her money until she dies", but the lawyer did have to take steps (won't go into the detail) to make sure that we weren't trying to cheat her.
I understand that many families are not in this situation, but your point is a good one - LOOK AHEAD.