Thomas Frank: "Pity the Billionaire"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-01-09/thomas-frank-pity-billionaire
Americans responded to the Great Depression with resolve: Wall Street crooks went to prison, public works programs created jobs, and a new social safety net aided the poor and elderly. By the late 1930s, Democrats held a majority in Congress, which lasted for nearly 60 years. The 2008 financial meltdown nearly equaled the Great Depression. But the political outcome was starkly different: Republicans took back the House in 2010 as public rage shifted from Wall Street to government. Diane talks to author Thomas Frank about what he calls a "hard-times swindle," which he says fueled an unlikely conservative comeback.
Guests
Thomas Frank
author of "What's the Matter with Kansas?" and monthly columnist for Harper's magazine
Comments
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I hear time and again from politicians and pundits that "the American people are not stupid." Whereas I don't believe the American people are PARTICULARLY stupid, I DO feel that many American voters are easily swayed by slogans and simplistic arguments. The Right has taken advantage of this, and is willing to manipulate the public with semi-truths and outright lies. When the media wonders why the Left's message is not as clearly stated, I believe it's because while the Right is operating from a position of Capitalist purity and Religious incorporation, the Left is operating from a position of Moral fairness, intelligence, truth and tolerance. The Left's position does not lend itself to manipulation and simplicity. The problems of maintaining fairness and freedom are complicated, mostly due to those society members who are morally and intellectually challenged. Complication does not lend itself to slogans or simplistic arguments. What the Left has failed to do is to manipulate people, because they find it disgusting to admit to themselves that all people are not bright enough to look past the surface.
Only percentages, adjusted for inflation, can reflect the growth of federal budget. This is a rational approach.
sane wrote:
"It came as brainchild of Nixon and Ailes to promote Nixon's "world view"."
Complete fantasy.
Ailes came from NBC via MSNBC!
"Fox is just a right wing propaganda channel, little in common with reality."
A common meme of the left - especially amongst those who do not watch it, but accept the opinion of the Daily Kos and Huffington Post instead.
Fox's numbers bear out that it is fair and it offers a balanced view. That's why people watch. What Fox has done is loosened the stranglehold on the propaganda machine of the left via the major networks and that is why the left tries so hard to debase it. Not complicated.
PaulinIndy,
You left out the Fox propaganda machine, Bush is the Devil who was manipulated by Cheney, who lied us into war to boost his Haliburton stock, and ... am I forgetting anything?
The fact is, the message of the left is very clearly simplified in the class warfare tactics of this President, in an attempt to cover up his failed policies.
The problem is not that it isn't clear enough, but that it doesn't resonate with 75% of the American people.
If we were paying taxes for federal deficit spending along with the other taxes we already pay, half of our earnings for the year would go to support federal and local governments. How much is too much for you big government liberals.
My previous post should have said "NOTE the blue line" rather than "not the blue line". I can no longer make a change to that post.
I love Diane and her program despite her being far more liberal than myself.
I would point out that Barack Obama raised more money from Wall street than any candidate in the history of the world in 2008 and then he proceeded to make Larry Summers the leader of his economic team, a man who opposed regulating derivatives.
In Missouri the biggest beneficiary of Obama's stimulus bill was also Obama's biggest political money bundler, Tom Carnahan who got $104 million dollars of stimulus money for a wind farm on his property. Obama recently attended a $20,000 dollar per person fundraiser in St Louis for one percenters hosted by none other than Tom Carnahan.
Somehow Diane's guest managed to reach the conclusion that conservatives are phony populists and exclude Obama from that.
Wow , Listen to the responses here. Is this one nation under god? How sad that people have come to be so self absorbed with their own cause and opinion that they hate others that disagree with them. What ever happened to if your enemy is hungry feed him. If your enemy is thirsty give him a drink.
What about really looking at what is in EVERYONE'S best interest even if it may not be what will be in the absolute best interest of self.
Economies are always built from the Bottom up. You grow the base and you grow your overall market and EVERYONE benefits, even at the top
Killing public sector jobs may be necessary in the future as we draw down the overall cost of government but doing so in the middle of a recession, Really??? Really???
Higher taxes has never stopped jobs from growing. In my 52 years in business it has proved to be just the opposite. When taxes were higher under Clinton and Reagan when our businesses grew and we got close to the next incrementally higher tax rate -- we would hire a few new employees and buy needed equipment in order to STAY UNDER THE NEXT HIGHER TAX RATE.
This makes the economy grow---yes higher taxes makes the economy grow.
Right now big business is sitting on almost 3 trillion dollars of cash sitting on the sidelines. Lower taxes has created greater profits and business have shown when left on their own they will choose to keep the saved tax moneys and pay the CEO's huge bonuses and send the wealthy investor/stockholders huge dividends
The very first step to right the economy is to simply allow the Bush tax cuts to expire and restore the incentive to businesses to hire and invest in their own companies
johnandere,
"This president" hasn't had the ability to enact very many policies, and those he has slipped through against the stubbornly childish opposition he faces are watered down. Despite that, under his watch the country has pulled up from the economic nose dive the previous administration had us in through a war (based on an assumption they stated as fact) while they cut taxes so people could afford their lattes and Air Jordans. "Class warfare" was an inevitable term brought up in response to the Occupy movement which arose out of simple frustration with the wealth distribution in America which has gotten way out of hand, and not due to any propaganda. That is exactly the problem, though, what WOULD resonate with 75% (clean that figure up next time after you pull it outta your a__) of the American people, is a simple slogan or slogan or two in counter, like "eat the rich" or "greed is NOT good." People are just not bright enough overall, and don't respect the people enough who are. That's why the Arab spring will result in Religious governments, because the majority does not understand the absolute necessity of secular government to ensure their own religious freedom.
ewolsh wrote
"The conservative take on "love your neighbor" seems to be a commitment to "personal charity" instead of "institutional charity." Has the concept of "economies of scale" been forgotten? Or is it a naive idea of how much help, in so many ways, is needed out there? Or is it a clandestine will to control and judge others by personally deciding who we help?"
In this way GOP can justify policy that benefits the few. Only the mega-wealthy, unlike the government, have the saint-like qualities to know which charities, political organizations, and international conflicts are deserving of financial support. In effect, they advocate, that only the "master class" has the wisdom & therefore should have the authority to decide who lives and dies.
So according to you attacking a country that has not attacked us is OK And if this country elects another Repub pres it will be OK to get locked into another 10 plus year war for trumped up reasons
According to you who is obviously NOT in the military sending our boys to die for reasons only you can understand is OK as well???
Having two sons just come back from Iraq I am one along with my family that is glad we now have a president who is responsible and really understands the price of any conflict. Not some war mongering scum bag who thinks its a great way to get re-elected
This is about connecting with reality. I for one would love to require any president who goes to war to put their own family in harms way. Like the Kings of old who lead the country into war, not viewing it as a personal video game
The truth is nuanced, yet lies can provide simple or even simplistic explanations. Nuance takes a lot more time and effort to convey. So, to combat a lie which gives simplistic answers to complicated problems, one either has to give an equally simplistic lie, or spend more time, money and effort trying to debunk the lie.
There are truthful politicians, but they are not the majority of either party. However, the Republicans are much better at conveying the same message over and over again. Democrats are not that disciplined nor organized.
John Stewart has demonstrated this many times. Republicans seem to be reading the same script when they take the bully-pulpit, and lies which are repeated often enough often become accepted.
So, even if/when Democrats respond with equally simplistic, but countering lies, they do not do so with the same script, over and over again. Also, those who try to tell the truth (on all sides) have to work hard to overcome the lies of both parties.
The result is that voters hear a cacophony of voices, but in the midst of it there is one chorus with a consistent but inaccurate message.
johnsonandjohnson,
More people like you need to speak out and lend legitimacy and energy to the argument. I especially like your observation about the way businesses would reinvest in themselves to avoid higher tax brackets: I've never heard that said before, and it makes a lot of sense.
PaulInIndy,
Not much to respond to here as it is the usual left talking points. But, I will respond to this:
"what WOULD resonate with 75% (clean that figure up next time after you pull it outta your a__) of the American people"
Sorry, that's about right. The hard-core left is about 25% of the population (and that's being generous). They will support Obama no matter what he does.
"People are just not bright enough overall, and don't respect the people enough who are. "
This is the attitude of those who believe that only THEY are smart enough to think for the American people - namely, the elitist left. I mean, how else can you interpret what you wrote?! That is why it is the elitist left that supports big government - how else can you control the ignorant American.
Teece, you CAN join the elite club. Anyone can! The inconvenient truth is you have to work harder than 99% of Americans to make it. Most (though I agree not all) wealthy Americans worked hard and smartly for their fortunes. Is it really strange that so few Americans have made it? To do so, you have to follow in all of the footsteps of the elite, not just the convenient, easy ones.
Take Warren Buffett. He started aggressively making and saving money very early in life, selling things door-to-door, newspaper route, etc., spending his free time on money-making activities. He has been very focused from a young age. Don't like that example because his father was a U.S. Congressman?
How about the self-made billionaire Sheldon Adelson (The Venitian/Palazzo resorts, Las Vegas). His dad was a cab driver in Boston. Mr. Adelson dropped out of college. Not Wharton Business School like Mr. Buffett. City College of New York.
Bill Gates: one of the richest men in the U.S. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is one of the largest charitable organizations in the world, transparently dedicated to providing health care and eliminating extreme poverty worldwide, and to expanding educational opportunities in America.
I believe in the American Dream, but also know that it isn't going to be presented to me without my lifting a finger. I have to work for it, and I plan to. It's not Henry Paulson's fault I'm not rich.
pallas_ahtena wrote:
"Republicans are much better at conveying the same message over and over again. Democrats are not that disciplined nor organized."
That would also be true if Republicans were messaging based on principles and Democrats were not.
johnandere,
As a matter of fact, the hard-core left of whom you speak, has been very critical of the president for being too conciliatory toward the Right, and it was over 50% of the American people that voted for him (unlike his predecessor). Your statement "that's about right" just indicates how your type makes up statistics to prove your point. Who your pundits call a "Socialist" has been an exceptionally moderate president. I wouldn't sing his praises at all if I didn't believe that if he were king the government would be leaning much more left, and even then it wouldn't even approach socialism. I AM bringing up the point of "elitism" as a precursor to Machiavellian politics, as I believe that's EXACTLY what led the Republican leaders to put together their own negative approach and punditry. They have made a concerted effort to demonize all that the Left represents to the far too impressionable ears of Americans who are not academically or morally intelligent enough to understand their own limitations, and have some humility. That's why they can be so easily convinced by the Right that the Left seeks governmant control , even though the Left is the only side fighting for their best welfare. What the Left needs to do is to take the reins on behalf of the American people and instruct their punditry to actually use talking points, and demonize the Right for being the greedy, selfish, self-righteous, hypocritical, and nonprogressive people that they are.
JohnAndere said "Watch the O'Reilly Factor for one week straight and come back and tell me that he does not give a fair hearing to both sides."
So true! For example I was always under the impression that the motion of the tides was due to the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth. Fortunately O'Reilly demonstrated his ability to the cut through that BS and declare, "the tides, you can't explain that!" Yes sir, nothing but the facts from that trusted outlet (as long as they agree with your world view).
I think Mars should actually talk to some of the Occupy participants. I listen to both since both have valid points. I’d suggest watching what Stephen Colbert did at http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/401261/november-0... (Part 1 of the interview is funny but not as a good indicator of what the best in the movement are about).
I started questioning the changes way back when Joe Lieberman helped overturn Clinton's veto of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, and have seen it go down hill from there. I remember Franklin Raines as Director of the Office of Management and Budget that helped Bill Clinton hand Bush a $51 billion surplus (turned nearly $108 billion negative within 9 months, even before 9/11 impact). Bush's first Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neil, and 450 economists (including 10 Nobel Prize winners) warned Bush from the beginning about the tax cuts. I agreed with them then and wonder who else would care to look back at all the other warnings. Two articles from wikipedia are a good start to see where it really got out of hand, the huge spike in subprime mortgages from 2004 to 2006. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis which shows a huge spike after Raines was forced out and Daniel Mudd took over at Fannie Mae. Quality lenders had no where near the defaults, ING for example had only 98 during the same period Countrywide had 98,000, Habitat for Humanity had only 2%, VA loans defaulted at much lower rates, FHA conforming loans, too.
My simple agenda for Tea Party and Occupy participants would be prevent future bailouts by fixing the causes that led to them, and getting the Velocity of Money back to healthy rates.
PaulInIndy wrote:
"Your statement "that's about right" just indicates how your type makes up statistics to prove your point."
Nope. Sorry, that is about right.
"it was over 50% of the American people that voted for him "
So you conclude from that, that 50% of the American people are hard-core left?! What do you think the correct number is?
By the way, I think polls show that only a slightly larger number would be considered hard-core right, and, on the whole, we remain a center-right country, no matter how the left tries to spin it. It's the sweet center spot that both sides fight for.
"They have made a concerted effort to demonize all that the Left represents "
You better believe it. To my last freedom-loving breath. I do not believe that liberal progressives want a free society where self-determination is the hallmark, rather than government-determination. That's where the "elitist" part comes in. Your other statements continue to reflect the attitude that the American people are too stupid to know what's good for them ... but you do ... yeah, you do. I find that attitude repulsive - and I believe the founders would have too.
Part deux.
"even though the Left is the only side fighting for their best welfare"
Interesting choice of words. That's because the welfare state has grown up under liberal progressive policies since the 30's. How's that worked out so far?
By the way - I believe in a safety net. I do. But it should be truly a safety net and not a safety velvet cushion which you would like to provide. Here is the difference; a simple safety net motivates people to improve their lot. A safety velvet cushion does not - and that, I believe is the eventual aim of the liberal progressive. "As long as we can keep the masses dependent on us, we can keep them voting for us". You can pretend you are "helping the impressionable", when, in the end all you are really doing is "impressing" them (see Old English definition of "impress").
Love,
Your freindly neighborhood greedy, selfish, self-righteous, hypocritical, and nonprogressive fellow-poster.
jbot6380,
When I heard that, my BS meter pegged, so I looked up the origin. First, you quote only in part. Mr. O'Reilly said, "the sun comes up, the sun goes down, the tide goes in, the tide goes out, you can't explain that". Those words were spoken to Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists. What the statement means is that to deny the existence of God, the atheist has to explain the order of the universe. It has to explain all of physics, chemistry, and biology and the laws those disciplines follow. This is not about explaining the laws that the tides obey. This is about explaining where the laws come from.
Now THAT is thought-stimulating.
Jim Young wrote:
"I remember Franklin Raines as Director of the Office of Management and Budget that helped Bill Clinton hand Bush a $51 billion surplus (turned nearly $108 billion negative within 9 months, even before 9/11 impact). "
Whenever I hear that "Clinton handed off surplus", blah, blah, blah, I know where the point is headed. Statistically true, but only tells half the story. Take a look at GDP and the economy between mid-2000 and the time Bush took office - headed to the toilet. The tax cuts were needed and were stimulative to job growth and GDP. The "blame Bush" crowd points to Fannie and Freddie as though they only made good loans. The rest of us knew that wasn't true and now the numbers are proving it and F&F are coming hat in hand to the American people for a bailout. The root of the financial crisis is to be found in the repeal of Glass-Steagall which gave banks access to depositor's money for risky investment, the existence of F&F and the threat of the Federal Government against lenders who, essentially, wouldn't lend to anyone and everyone, and the failure of oversight at the highest levels in enforcing regulation already in place. Both sides have plenty of blame to shoulder.
"My simple agenda for Tea Party and Occupy participants would be prevent future bailouts by fixing the causes that led to them...."
My simple agenda would be to prohibit bailouts period - whether to banks for GM. Step two would be to abolish F&F and sell their loans off to the highest bidder. Step three, pass a simple regulation that requires banks to service loans they underwrite.
Two Democrats, Bill Clinton and Mario Cuomo are excellent wordsmiths.
The anger of the middle class that President Obama and most Congressional Democrats failed to acknowledge or successfully tap into is that a huge percentage of us find our net worth has plummeted because our house and our retirement portfolio are worth considerably LESS than they were just four or five years ago.
The Republican Party has had an anti-union, anti-regulation platform for eons. They have fought against unions and guaranteed pensions, and against the regulation of banks and securities. Why can't the Democrats articulate this?
Two Democrats, Bill Clinton and Mario Cuomo are excellent wordsmiths.
The anger of the middle class that President Obama and most Congressional Democrats failed to acknowledge or successfully tap into is that a huge percentage of us find our net worth has plummeted because our house and our retirement portfolio are worth considerably LESS than they were just four or five years ago.
The Republican Party has had an anti-union, anti-regulation platform for eons. They have fought against unions and guaranteed pensions, and against the regulation of banks and securities. Why can't the Democrats articulate this?
johnandere,
You should check your BS meter, as it is clearly set to read resistance instead of conductivity. The atheist (which I am not) doesn't have to explain the order of the universe to deny the existence of God any more than the Deist has to prove God exists. Saying that the universe is too amazing to not be created by God is a logical fallacy of the same nature. Essentially, both views are agenda-driven and most likely generated by psychological need. They are both "faiths," whereas science is beside them both. The elephant in the room, however, is that Religion keeps stepping backward in the face of science: the earth is flat, no? but it's the center of the universe, no? the flu is caused by God's wrath over witches or homosexuals? etc.,etc...it can't be determined whether or not there is a God or an intelligent design or anything "unsicentific" behind the questions of the universe until that being decides to reveal itself to us. In the meantime, every person has a strong need to feel that their existence matters, that there's some point to life, that they have a Father or Mother figure, that they need something to control them. So they invent/adopt a specific faith to ease their fears. Only those without any insistence on the specifics of 'faith" have anything to say that makes any logical sense. It's people like you and Bill-O the clown, who insist so fervently against common sense, that hold back all the progressiveness the human race might achieve, and most likely doom us toward untold catastrophes if not extinction. You exhibit gravity.
Renata Fiore wrote:
"The Republican Party has ... fought against unions and guaranteed pensions"
Renata, hate to break it to you, but your "guaranteed" pension is only as good as the guarantor. When unions are spending your pension money to support candidates or governments are dipping into your pension money for risky investments, how does that make you feel?
Now, suppose unions - and local governments were forced to deposit that money in a private account that they could not touch. Would that make you feel better? Now how about if the Federal Government had to do the same with your Social Security deposits.
I hate to be blunt, Renata, but both have been screwing you for decades. Rule #1, DO NOT TRUST ANYONE BUT YOU WITH YOUR MONEY.
I feel both parties are, evil as the other. They have been in our government way to long. I call them the Republic-rats. We have a fascist government. I know you say its to harsh to call it corruption, I think not, I feel criminal charges should be filed aganist them, and their wealth taken to pay the phony deficit they created. It was infuriating, when President Obama, continued with the bailout Bush started. To big to fail, not to big to jail.
PaulInIndy wrote:
"Bill-O the clown"
"You suck"
I would give your argument some more thought without the epithets, Paul. You are a hater and your words demonstrate it. But just to be clear, you don't know what I believe that "insist[s] so fervently against common sense" so don't even go there.
"can't be determined whether or not there is a God or an intelligent design or anything "unsicentific" behind the questions of the universe until that being decides to reveal itself to us."
Hebrews 1:1,2
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
Perhaps you just weren't paying attention, Paul.
"The atheist (which I am not) doesn't have to explain the order of the universe to deny the existence of God."
The no-God point of view is also a matter of faith, Paul. It's just a little different form. Think about it.
Good-bye.
This string has gotten far afield so I will try to adjust the course.
#1 The Tea Party went into labor over the profligate spending of W as his administration became ever more fiscally liberal, it was born with TARP.
#2 There is ZERO proof and very little circumstantial evidence that there is any bigotry within the Tea Party, at least that sticks around more than a few minutes.
#3 The heroes of the Tea Party are John, Sam and Abigail Adams, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, & Hancock among the founding fathers, modern role models include are Dr. Martin Luther King, Ronald Reagan, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Milton Friedman, Rick Santelli, Nassim Taleb, and a few others.
#4 The Tea Party became fiercely and permanently active after the health care bill was passed and Nancy Pelosi said; "But we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it." One of the DUMBEST things ever said in public by a politician.
#5 Yes the Tea Part Freshmen have made some mistakes, a few. There are only 67 or 68 of them out of 535 legislators, House and Senate. If 467 people can't resist the will of 68, well that's just kinda sad. There is always the two other branches of Gov't BTW.
#6 President Obama ran his election beating the drums daily about "the worst downturn since the great depression" (being a historian myself his knowing inaccuracy was frustrating) on the campaign trail then instantly backed off a bit when elected.
#7 Name calling, scap-goating and cliche' drivel spouted regularly by the Dem's and Repub's are not debate, they are playground childishness which is part of what keeps the Tea Party Fires burning. Get to serious, honest work on fixing the problems and we will go away, keep it up and we will throw every incumbent out of office within the next three election cycles. Trust me.