Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-21/bishop-mariann-edgar-budde
A decade of schism in the American Episcopal Church has taken a toll. New polls show the number of Episcopalians in the U.S. has dipped below two million for the first time in modern history. The church is losing conservatives who say it is too secular and accepting of gays and lesbians. Liberals are leaving to find spirituality not based on a centuries-old theology. The first female bishop of the Washington D.C. diocese -- one of the nation’s largest and home to the National Cathedral -- has a plan. She’s looking for ways to grow the church and bring people together. Diane talks with the Right Reverend Mariann Budde about saving the Episcopal Church.
Guests
Mariann Edgar Budde
Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, D. C.
Program Highlights
The Right Reverend Mariann Budde was consecrated as Bishop of the Washington, D.C. Diocese last month in the National Cathedral which is marred by cracks resulting from an earthquake. She sees a metaphor in those cracks within the Cathedral, cracks in the faith whose foundations are crumbling. But she remains resolute in her hope that that can change.
A Significant Nationwide Decline In The Church
Although the Washington Diocese is healthy and large, according to Budde, the Episcopal Church has been experiencing a significant decline nationwide. Budde believes that a lack of investment, as well as a lack of understanding about what people are looking for today in spiritual communities, are just two of many factors contributing to the Church's erosion. "I think we have failed in addressing those core concerns in a systemic and strategic way - that we have become an institution focused on our own survival," Budde said.
The Role Of Women In The Church
When Budde was a child, women weren't allowed to serve in any of the Church's leadership bodies, and girls weren't allowed to be altar servers. But slowly, through democratic processes, Church leadership was convinced that there was no scriptural, theological or other reasons that women shouldn't be allowed into Church councils or other positions of leadership. The Church's views on divorce also changed; when Budde was a child, her own parents divorced, and at the time the Church's views on divorce were as strict as those of the Catholic Church's. "It wasn't just the role of women, but social changes in general that the Episcopal Church, through our democratic policies and processes, began to change," Budde said.
Diversity and Notions of Acceptance
Some congregation members are not entirely comfortable with the changes those democratic policies brought in. A listener wrote that she felt the Episcopalian Church she was born and raised in had turned its back on traditional values because the rector of her church is a lesbian and the American and Episcopal Church flags outside her church have been replaced by a rainbow banner. Budde said the tension between preserving the past and moving forward is never easy, but that the Church has a new understanding of what it means to welcome gay and lesbian members into the congregation. Budde feels that these members should be welcomed in to the Church and know that they have a place in it if they choose.
Traveling The Country
Budde plans to travel around the Diocese "speaking the word" every Sunday to a new congregation around the counties she serves, trying to help strengthen the community. "I miss the peacefulness of an earlier time," she said. "I don't think we're going to go back there. I think we're going to go through this very painful period to another place. And part of that newness will be letting people who want to leave, leave," Budde said.
You can read the full transcript here.
Comments
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I knew Mariann when she was a curate at Trinity Church in Toledo, Ohio. She was a wonderful role model for me as I explored and then embarked upon ordained ministry in The Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Washington did a great thing in electing Mariann as a Bishop.
Maybe people just don't think late bronze age myths are relevant in the modern era...?
Congratulations to Bishop Budde! Though I am Catholic her appointment gives ME hope for the direction of our collective faith communities. I think much of the reluctance to actually understand the call of Christ, (which is love of God and neighbor) does come from exactly what she suggests; a superficial, self-absorbed approach to faith. So what to do? Continue to follow the call of Christ; the Holy Spirit will always pull us through. This is even more vital during this season of HOPE. If you preach love, eventually love comes through. And if it is any consolation, it is no picnic being Catholic right now. :) God bless your ministry and God bless Diane for opening all of this to discussion.
I was brought up in the church, left for many years and have recently returned.
The Episcopal church is a church for the thinking individual and also has a spirituality that feeds the soul. My own parish in Brookline MA welcomes ALL seeking individuals.
I can't speak for other areas of the contry but the Diocese of (Eastern) Massachusetts is extrmely vibrant, and one of the several in the country that has grown and gained members.
I know I am not alone, for, out of utter loneliness (and having passionately studied religion and spirituality for four decades), I have joined with others and we now journey together on our own without the church.
I yearn for a church that is at Stage Five looking toward Stage Six in James Fowler’s understanding of faith and spiritual development, but, at age 63, despair of ever finding it, even though I keep looking and hoping.
We are not “falling away,” but, in our hearts, must follow the call of Spirit wherever it leads.
While Thomas Jefferson was certainly, at one point, an Episcapalian. He is widely regarded to have been more Deist than anything else. And George Washingon's religious affiliation has been subject for much debate.
The sign outside my Episcopal Church for years: "Jesus -He died to take away your sins not your mind."
I sometimes think the biggest problem for the Episcopal Church is that we do a very poor job of advertising who we are and the deep sense of spirituality coupled with a longing to engage minds and hearts that is at our core.
My name is Tim, I have 6 daughters and I completely disagree with the verses from Timothy, though we are all believers!
just because you disagree does not make it untrue.
We cannot pick and choose which verses of the bible apply to us and which do not.
if you want to disagree, that is fine, but please be able to back it up with scripture.
What a pleasure it was to hear your interview with Bishop Buddy. In a time, as always, where the loudest christians seem filled with judgement, dogma, and self serving agendas, I was so moved by her thoughtfull , loving and articulate take on her church. So glad she is a Bishop,, keep up the good work. I loved it! Thank you so much.
Twinkle Yochim
I am Catholic, but I have greatly admired how the Episcopal Church has expanded the understanding of God & what it means to be a Christian, making religion & faith inclusive instead of exclusive. Unfortunately, as the Episcopal Church has moved forward, the Catholic Church becomes increasingly regressive.
Bishop Budde is an excellent spokesperson for the Episcopal Church. I don't think I've heard a more eloquent & intelligent religious figure. And she's an great example of why women shouldn't be barred from the priesthood.
Its disappointing that Bishop Budde would simply and flippantly say that the 1 Timothy verse does not apply to her. There are enough people out there that disagree with the verse, but disagreement with any verse in the bible does not make it untrue. She should really back up her statement with scripture to have any validity.
If we are free to disregard this verse because we don't agree with it, what makes believers any different from non believers who disregard the rest of the Bible as untrue because they don't agree with it.
I could say the same thing wrt conservative "Christians."
I am astounded by people who are unable to understand that the Bible was written by people, who are just as flawed as anyone else. You have to analyze the Bible just as you would any work of literature - you need to understand the authorS, their backgrounds, their agendas, their target audience, the circumstances of their times, etc. We have a better understanding of the world than the authorS of the Bible did.
Alan,
While I disagree that Bishop Budde's answer was flippant, I do think she could have done more to answer the listener's question. This issue is a tough issue for many who grew up hearing 1 Timothy used so often to refute Womens public participation in worship leadership. Here is a link to an article by N.T. Wright, he is an Anglican and the former bishop of Durham in the church of England. I feel like it may give you an biblical answer or theological reason for the full inclusion of women in the leadership of the church. I don't know your background but Bishop Wright is pretty well respected in the Evangelical world.
http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm
I don't know how applicable it is to the Washington diocese, but I wonder what Bp. Budde would have said about Episcopal parishes converting en masse (priest and congregation) to the Eastern Orthodox Christianity, once they've looked back beyond Henry VIII, beyond the schism of 1054 AD, when Rome "overthrew" Jesus Christ as the head of the church, establishing a constitutional monarchy in the person of the pope as viceroy (vicar) of Christ. Those who "come and see" often find what had been lost in the shadows of the Great Schism and the Reformation. When they see, often they stay.
It is not only Episcopalians, but many others, who discover that the "first century" faith has remained unbroken.
Hi Alan,
Her answer was a little clumsy, but what I think she was getting at was that one must take Scripture as a whole and not "proof text" and one verse. For example you could pull out "Judas hung himself" from one part of the NT, and "go and do likewise" from another and find yourself in a lot of trouble. Or you could proof text and find yourself unable to eat at Red Lobster, or required to stone your daughter, etc. We do pick and choose as we interpret Scripture. Every single one of us. That is why there are (literally) 40,000 Christian denominations.
A point she could have made (for example) was that many Christians, when they look at the progression of women's rights in the text, alongside the obviously negative view of women in the culture at the time, and they fact that Paul was writing to a specific Church likely about a specific situation, and say that barring women from responding to a call to leadership in the Church is a postition that is hard to defend.
It was a gift to hear such an intelligent compassionate voice on the radio. As an adult I have lost faith in institutions; religious, political and economic. I feel despair at the national schism and a culture addicted to toxic levels of consumption. Bishop Budde, thank you for lighting our way to a better place.
"Broken World" Ms. Budde? The Only world that's broken is the one wrought by the insanity of monotheism. Does Manifest Destiny ring a bell?
Joetx's description of the factors behind the creation of the Bible absolutely nailed it. Knowledge of science in Biblical times hadn't even progressed to the point of believing that the world was flat. We just have to interpret it in terms of what we now know.
As for that old grump Leviticus, I'm not sure whether he was a real person or just a bunch of guys who would get together for beers after work and write up their lists of things they hated. And then they managed to get a publisher.
First - this show sounded like an infomercial to increase attendance at the church Diane attends. After that came to light, all credibility was lost for me.
Second - Could it be that people are finally coming to the understanding that the bible/god is a joke and irrelevant in today's world?
Third - I think organized religion is highly destructive and hinders the growth of society by preaching thousand year old idioms that have no immediate relevance to today's world.
I was very happy to hear that attendance is down, finally it seems like people are waking up and using common sense.
If you read the bible literally than you believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Clause. They are fairy tales the same as what the church preaches. But those are make-believe stories, right?
I, for one, feels alienated by the current Episcopal church. Back when the two churches joined (Northern and Southern) the Episcopal church "dumbed down." It lost all its intellectual charge, its language and ceremony that has gone on for an awfully long time - it now seems to be built solely for popular comfort. In my book, the mainline Episcopalians now act akin to Baptists.
As a gay man, it was never an issue until 1982 - the church had enough sophistication and style to allow one and all the same no matter. The Episcopal church now seems to be more of a political action committee with social club/agenda.
Of course, the church will never go back as this is supposed to be "progress" but in its quest for modernity it has lost its identity and me.
The Eastern Orthodox church is now looking pretty good, they do not change to accommodate popular opinion, they have basically the same service from 2000+ years ago. Even the Episcopal borrowed from the Orthodox when they reinstated the ceremonies that the Roman Catholics abandoned.
I have posted a link to this conversation at a site of Progressive site of Baptists, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Calvary Baptist of D.C. is loosely affiliated with this breakaway group from the Southern Baptist Convention over the matter of inerrancy and all the cultural baggage that goes with it.
CBF is facing much of same matrix Bishop Budde articulated this morning; and it matters not only for Christendom for for our nation as the discussion about Newt Gingrich particularly in the S.C. Primary shouts to us daily.--on that matter see Joanna Brooks today at religion dispatches.org.
I count among my friends of the Episcopalian persuasion Randall Balmer, who to grand effect has twice been the Dotson Nelson lecturer at Samford, a conservative but not mean school in Birmingham, Alabama.
And I tell my fundamentalist friends, don't tell me women can't preach. Two of the grandest Proclaimers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the planet today are women; Episcopalian at that, Barbara Brown Taylor and Fleming Rutledge and it has been a blessing to me to hear both of them in the Flesh.
Slight revolution going on in the Baptist circles in Raleigh NC, pay attention to Nancy Petty at Pullen Baptist - she is protesting NC law and standing up against inequality yet again. She has more sense and more character than most men I have ever met. She is one of the rare few that makes me glad I am a human.
I was surprised during the interview to hear Bishop Budde assert (twice) that Thomas Jefferson was an Episcopalian. I did some research to be sure of my ground before writing this blog and found it is accurate he had served on the board of the Church of England in his neighborhood and was there when it morphed into the Episcopal church.
He was a deist! Also he was NOT a trinitarian. He considered Jesus as a "moral philosopher." In furtherance of this opinion he did a literal cut and paste of the Christian bible creating the "Jefferson bible" wherein he removed all references to miracles. Is the Episcopal church today inclusive enough to permit deism as Jefferson lived it?
It's hours later and I'm still thinking about Bishop Budde's insightful remarks. Two stand out in my mind: 1. The church cannot be a survival mode mindset and also do the risk-taking ministry of reaching out to others in this ever-changing world. Survival mode is the first stage of death. 2. How can a child be baptized into the church and then be rejected because of homosexuality? There is a place for each person no matter what their status or circumstance at the Lord's table.
I too understand the pain many expressed of losing traditional church services and much more. These pains are felt by many mainline church members not just Episcopalians. The Golden Age of US churches starting in the mid-20th century positioned churches as a hub for not only religion but also for power and social standing and that's all but gone. This evolution may not be a total detriment, if it forces churches into a serious self-examination of what is appropriate and worthwhile as disciples living in the 21st century.
Kudos to Bishop Budde for her insight and commitment!!
mjk writes The Episcopal church is a church for the thinking individual and also has a spirituality that feeds the soul. My own parish in Brookline MA welcomes ALL seeking individuals. I can't speak for other areas of the contry [sic] but the Diocese of (Eastern) Massachusetts is extrmely [sic] vibrant, and one of the several in the country that has grown and gained members.
The diocese of Massachusetts has lost 25% of its attendance, including a drop of 1.3% last year. The welcoming business is a lie. We welcome you...if you are a liberal white person - is how pretty much how it works on the ground. Then we have the business about "the church for thinking individual". What passes for intellectual thinking is inconsistent, incoherent washed up heresies. But they still hold on to their pride, and pride certainly is going before the fall of this once great denomination.
I was quite amused when the Bishop referred to Thomas Jefferson as a Founding Father member of the Episcopalian Church:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_jefferson
His beliefs were quite at odds with any traditional Church interpretation of Jesus's teachings.
Was Thomas Jefferson Episcopalian? The joke is that the denomination has become so fuzzy that no one can ever be sure that they aren't an Episcopalian. There are Wiccopalians, Islamopalians,..., even some Christianpalians, though Budde and her ilk are doing their best to un-welcome the later out of the denomination.
The Episcopalians drip with pride that they are so smart (see the other comments). As Emerson told us, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Also we know that it is insanity to expect different results from the same actions. The liberalization experiment is a complete failure, yet Budde thinks that she can turn things around by pushing more liberal incoherence.
I, too, am a lifelong Episcopalian who searched for a long time for a way to serve my church without having to forgo marriage and family in order to do so. When the Lord finally called me to work in a healing ministry, He told me that He doesn't look at 'sex', but He calls whomever He wants to call for the job He wants them to do. Peace to Timothy, who was simply following the customs of his time in the Mediterranean area. Women were admonished to keep their heads covered because to go bare-headed was a 'sign of the trade'. Ergo, for women to speak out and teach was almost in the same category, because only men were allowed to do those things. Now, I ask you, who stayed by the Lord during His crucifixion? It surely wasn't the men (who ran away and hid or worse, betrayed Him)! It was the the 3 Marys and John (a mere slip of a boy at that time), to whom He gave the responsibility of caring for His mother! May God bless Bishop Mariann in her new post and may He also bless our Presiding Bishop Katherine! We think she is doing a great job as the P.B. and we're far from being 'liberals' theologically. We belong to a parish which has been teaching 'the Faith once-delivered to the saints' for a long time.