Building a Qualified Workforce for the Future: New Trends in Higher Education
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-14/building-qualified-workforce-future-new-trends-higher-education
The many months of discouraging joblessness figures highlight an important factor: education. Last year the unemployment rate for people with a college degree was 5.4%. For those with only a high school diploma the rate was nearly double. In addition, an untold number of jobs go unfilled because there are not enough qualified applicants. Critics charge that institutions of higher education today which include, public, private, community and for-profit colleges fail to meet the needs of students, especially economically disadvantaged students, and face serious challenges with regard to affordability, access and quality: Join us to talk about higher education in the U.S. today.
Guests
Andrew Rosen
chair and CEO, Kaplan,Inc
Josh Wyner
executive director, College Excellence Program, Aspen Institute
Claudia Goldin
economic historian, labor economist, and professor of economics, Harvard University
Barmak Nassirian
associate executive director,American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers
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Program Highlights
The U.S. suffers from what's been called an education deficit. A surprising number of jobs go unfilled because there's a shortage of qualified candidates. Many say our higher ed system is to blame, and that too few students are able to get the education these jobs require.
Spending The Most On Educating The Few
Only about 30 to 32 percent of the U.S. population above the age of 25 has a bachelor's degree, Kaplan's Andrew Rosen points out. But currently, 60 percent of the jobs in the U.S. require at least some college. The real challenge, Rosen said, is getting what he calls the "second third" access to higher education. "Even though we as a society spend more on education per capita than any other country in the world, by far, we keep on falling further back in that attainment challenge," Rosen said."And it is driven by the fact that we spend more and more money on the most advantaged students in our country."
The Quality Of Public Education
In spite all the money we spend on higher education, though, employers often complain that college graduate job applicants are inadequately prepared for the working world. Some college professors blame the nation's faltering public education system. "What's happened is now 60 percent of students who enter community college need remedial education," The Aspen Institute's Josh Wyner said, with 25 percent of those going to four-year colleges requiring the same. Even if students struggle, though, Wyner said those with associate's degrees earn an average of about $400,000 more over a lifetime than those with a high school diploma, and those with a four-year degree earn about twice that.
The College Affordability Factor
Several listeners called in to speak about the difficulty of obtaining affordable student loans with reasonable interest rates, and the panelists agreed that college needs to be more affordable in the U.S. Harvard University's Claudia Goldin said that although high interest rates are discouraging, she doesn't believe that the cost of college education is something that the public should be paying for. In her view, the capital market should be much better at providing affordable loans, but she looks at the cost of a college education as "individuals investing in themselves" and said that "they should be getting a high return for it."
Could Online Education Help?
One caller lamented about what he sees as the lost potential of online education. The caller, Rick, believed that online higher education could drive costs down significantly and open up higher educational opportunities to many more people. Rosen said that online education is still in its infancy and may yet provide opportunities to people who haven't had them in the past because of prohibitively high costs.
You can read the full transcript here.
Comments
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An education does not promise nor guarantee anything; it is a helper or may open some doors. If your not willing or able to work and start at the lower rungs it will do you no good.
The choice to "leave home" and borrow to go to school is a choice, by both the parents and the student. What's wrong with going to Jr. collage close to home?
The cost of higher Ed is to high. If we can educate a child for $10,000 a year in high school why is it 50,000.00 a year to educate a supposedly more mature, and responsible person.
That is one non-collage grads, opinion.
Dear Diane and Colleagues, I am so sorry I missed most of this show. This is a critical subject with so many variables. I am hoping you can do a similar show in the future, particularly on the costs surrounding student loans and the correct "investment". Do politicians even know that you cannot refinance a student loan if you consolidated. My wife and I are both optometrists having a cumulative debt load of over $220,000 and this was with me receiving a scholarship from the State of Arizona. We graduated and consolidated our loans after graduation in the years 2000 and 2001. My wife pays a rate of almost 6.7% and my loan is close to 6%. To understand we will be paying for 30 years, a mortgage, at those rates and have no ability to go onto the open market to obtain better rates and improve our personal cash flow so we might be able to save for our children's education and our retirement is stifled. There is NO LOBBY for students to force this issue on Congress, so I have no expectation that this situation will ever come to the table; nevertheless, it is a formidable subject to talk about and that effects many.
Thank you for listening.
Dr. Tom Czyz
Scottsdale, AZ
I think there are four high level concerns that require a very granular level of investigation in order to even consider how the US deals with the evolving breeds of educational systems and institutions.
1) What does the broader society *specifically* expect out of the education in which the student (and hopefully the parent) is engaging (i.e., what is its purpose - to fulfill or merely to provide a workforce, these two viewpoints are in many cases immiscible)?
2)It is very rare that students today know precisely what career they will eventually embark upon. Thus, should the student be required to enroll in a 'career direction' program adjunct to the educational continuum in order to help them develop a fulfilling life which involves a job career? I have seen this as a 'voluntary / walk-in' service, but never an integral part of personal development in any university.
2) How shall the broader society define the role of education in the lives of its members, and what responsibilities (i.e. parents) does it have to the educators? There has been much talk and hype about decrepitude in educational institutions, but since when does education stop the minute the student walks in to their home from school?
4) Post secondary educators are generally not trained to educate, despite the requisite doctoral degree, publications, and grant writing abilities. Does this negatively affect post secondary outcomes, and if so, how should this be dealt with?
Diane,
I must reply to your comment about why you need a degree to repair airplanes. Our son in fact obtained a 4 year degree along with the certifications to be an airplane mechanic. It was a hands on program at Western Michigan University. The rest of the classes gave him the critical thinking skills and liberal arts classes to help him see the big picture of his job and someday be an effective supervisor. Yes, the other fellows who work with him with two year degrees are effective and productive workers with a skill, but someone has to lead these fellows who has also been able to acquire a broader skill set.
I also would like to agree with some of the comments regarding the role of parents in motivating students to learn. We have read many recent columns by Julie Mack in the Kalamazoo Gazette who has done much research in this area of graduation rates and educational outcomes. She has come to the same conclusion regarding the family and their influence.
One of the best things I got from my 1979 High School orientation was a statement said twice by the basketball coach. He said, "In four years you will HAVE to go earn money. Even college students work. Here is where you can get the skills and habits that may get you MORE money. Focus, responsibility, pride in what you do." ... I took print shop, getting good safety habits and learning of the need for better math and computer skills with coming machinery. I have been a machinist most of my life. I used geometry as a wedge to keep myself employed because I didn't have to stop working to train up. Secondly, if you understand the formulas used to set up a machine you can spot problems quickly, prevent disasters, and get more production. Fixing a problem makes you more than just an employee.
Why do I relate this to you? Because students rarely get told WHY they need to learn things. Not for each thing. But being told you might need this later isn't as good an call for focused learning as, "This class might make you the last to be fired."
Why can't we expect our public schools to produce High School Graduates with the basic literacy and math skills nescessary to go on to secondary education or the workforce? I suspect that Employers routinely require a College Degree simply as a sort criteria, and to assure themselves that the prospective employee has the wherewithall to learn on the job. If there were a standardized test available, similar to the SAT or ACT for college bound students, that would serve to document a High School Graduate's command of these basic reading and math skills, prospective employers could hire these "certified" high school graduates with greater confidence. Such a standardized test could be administered, and the subsequent certification provided for less than $30-40 apiece.
One of the reasons that 2 and 4 year college graduates have historically earned so much more than those with a high school diploma is that they have come from the top ~20% of the best, brightest, dedicated and involved of the students coming out of high school. I submit that these students would have earned significantly more that the other 80% whether they attended college or not.
Excellent point, Robert. Understanding WHY you're supposed to learn certain things is at least as important at the material itself. Perhaps with this understanding, students would take their educational opportunities more seriously
Where does the onus go from the institution to the student? Nowhere have I heard anything that reflect on a student's desire to learn. Please address the lack of desire of students to focus on the skills that are being taught in elementary. I have been in the public school system for 21 years and recognize that students change with the times. Students, in my experience would now rather go home and play on a gaming system than do the home work that reinforces the lessons of the day. Yes, they do not memorize multiplication facts, or are able to recognize one half of 100 is fifty. In essence not willing to put into practice the things that they do know.
I'm tired of taking the rap for parents responsibility and listening to the bad mouthing of public education in general.
This conversation is disturbing as so many have been about education, especially since the "Nation at Risk" report from Reagan's presidency. There is an assumption that education is about preparing a workforce and if we're not doing that then we're mis-educating. This agenda of these technocrats on your show reveals the narrowness of such thinking. If we really focused in this way then we need to do away with poetry and philosophy and history and the arts because none of these are about the skills of a computer person or workforce designed (that is what these people think - human beings are to be designed, not educated) to feed our economic machine. Shame on our country if we think this is what led to the Arab spring. Those people are thinking about more than how to make money (for others since most of our workforce works for someone else who profits handsomely while the workers lose their homes and, in many cases, livelihood. What if we educated people to stand up to this kind of power and to think what they need as human beings, not as machines? That would be something worth calling "education."
As an instructor, who has worked in both the community colleges, and the for-profit colleges, I want to introduce some facts, from observations inside these systems.
1) Administrators at both the community colleges and the for-profits discourage instructors giving students poor grades or failing them, for not learning. Administrators state this will interfere with "retention", their code word for students completing their programs. So grades and graduation do not reflect learning.
2) Attendance is mandatory at the for-profits because an early part of regulation cracked down on ghost students. If students miss too many classes, they are withdrawn, and still have to pay for the class. Community college policies vary. In Illinois, State support depends on the number of students present on the 10th day of class, so attendance is enforced before and on this day, and not afterwards.
The students attend both types of schools to earn credentials that WILL GET THEM A JOB. This credential does not exist, but that does not stop the schools, both Community Colleges and for-profit Colleges from selling their product as such. This is the worst sin that schools commit, selling their paper as the Golden Ticket.
While the program was informative, if it were not for federal student financial aid there would not be a for-profit educational system. Given the default rate for those students, this is an area where the federal government should limit aid or even cease the program to students enrolled in for-profit institutions.
At the end of today's show the conversation focused on a disinterested/unmotivated student than in the past. Maybe today’s National Institute on Drug Abuse's latest Monitoring the Future report showing one in fifteen teens in high school are getting high ever day is a factor. I recall a bright kid, I knew in the late 60s, ‘tuned out’ his last year because he was stoned every day. Instead of getting into a prestigious college he ended up in a car wreck (probably high) and remained in rehab for an extended period.
http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/12/14/report_more_us_teens_are_getti...
College too expensive, get rid of the blather classes and the non self funding sports. The purpose of college is to learn about a trade/profession. The idea of a well rounded education was pushed down our throats to justify more required credit hours and therefore more income. The idea of a high quality trade school, in sciences and business is the logical next step.
I taught a semester at a for profit 2 year college and I felt terrible. These students were rooked into signing on more loans than they could afford. I tried to help them transfer to our local community colleges but they had signed contracts and were stuck at this for profit. The teachers frankly mostly sucked (and it was my first time teaching so I was stumbling). I will never work at a for profit again.
And as a taxpayer I am HAPPY to subsidize community colleges. Investment in education is essential for our entire economy
All that was discussed on yr show were symptoms. No one cared what caused the problem.
~17 yrs ago Mallard Fillmore cited a study. todays college education is = 1950's high school.
why has the cost of increased exponentially faster than inflation while Quality decreased exponentially?
The orig. purpose of higher education was learning to make one ready for life not a trade or job.
For Profit degees are like the Wizard of Oz, presenting a piece of paper certifying the scarecrow has a brain.
19th century companys used apprenticeships to teach job specific skills:
Trade Schools replaced Apprenticeships, then Jr College replaced Trade Schools. The idea a "college degree" prepared someone for a job born. People saw a way to make money on pieces of paper (degrees) and for profits were born.
"years ago someone with a wrench could fix a car, today its all computerized" implying an auto mechanic needed to be a computer expert to plug in a diagnotic computer which bull.
The process is dysfunctional. Government created a way for someone to make money from Education. Making education a profit center destroys Education. "Why cant Government put its finger on the real problem (preparing people for jobs is not higher education issue ). Education is a public commons & no "for profit driven entity " by definition deals with the public good" Ref A. Smith
This is not to say we should do away with higher education but for profit of a public commons is not a right or need of every American nor is it a good way to prepare the vast majority of employees. Some jobs would be served best by apprenticeships run by companies not for profit ed companies which is the tail wagging the dog.
Universities should be open to all who can benefit but are not apprenticeship preparation for the average worker especially in a service economy with more and more min wage jobs and less and less middle class.
I hope Diane will consider doing a show on the Open Education Movement. I homeschool my two children in Fairfax County, Virginia and in my opinion, open and free education is an exciting and hopeful trend that can change how we think and operate in the realm of learning. My twelve year old son has thoroughly enjoyed watching MIT lectures in chemistry to supplement his chemistry lessons, and my seven year old daughter is learning math using Khan academy. Both of these resources are excellent quality and highly engaging for my kids and thousands like them. Best of all they are available to us at home, for free, anytime we like.
Here are some helpful links:
An online article from an NPR station on the Open Education Movement
http://mindshift.kqed.org/2011/10/open-education-sites-offer-free-conten...
Free online educational videos from a gifted teacher, on many areas of science, math and economics
http://www.khanacademy.org/
What Bill Gates had to say about Khan Academy
http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/23/technology/sal_khan_academy.fortune/inde...
Free online university
http://www.saylor.org/
Students with limited resources can study and prepare for CLEP exams to earn college credits and perhaps transfer as a junior or senior to a four year college and earn their degree at a fraction of the cost of attending college for four years.
http://www.collegeboard.com/parents/tests/meet-tests/21300.html
Jennifer