Building a Qualified Workforce for the Future: New Trends in Higher Education
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-14/building-qualified-workforce-future-new-trends-higher-education
The many months of discouraging joblessness figures highlight an important factor: education. Last year the unemployment rate for people with a college degree was 5.4%. For those with only a high school diploma the rate was nearly double. In addition, an untold number of jobs go unfilled because there are not enough qualified applicants. Critics charge that institutions of higher education today which include, public, private, community and for-profit colleges fail to meet the needs of students, especially economically disadvantaged students, and face serious challenges with regard to affordability, access and quality: Join us to talk about higher education in the U.S. today.
Guests
Andrew Rosen
chair and CEO, Kaplan,Inc
Josh Wyner
executive director, College Excellence Program, Aspen Institute
Claudia Goldin
economic historian, labor economist, and professor of economics, Harvard University
Barmak Nassirian
associate executive director,American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers
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Program Highlights
The U.S. suffers from what's been called an education deficit. A surprising number of jobs go unfilled because there's a shortage of qualified candidates. Many say our higher ed system is to blame, and that too few students are able to get the education these jobs require.
Spending The Most On Educating The Few
Only about 30 to 32 percent of the U.S. population above the age of 25 has a bachelor's degree, Kaplan's Andrew Rosen points out. But currently, 60 percent of the jobs in the U.S. require at least some college. The real challenge, Rosen said, is getting what he calls the "second third" access to higher education. "Even though we as a society spend more on education per capita than any other country in the world, by far, we keep on falling further back in that attainment challenge," Rosen said."And it is driven by the fact that we spend more and more money on the most advantaged students in our country."
The Quality Of Public Education
In spite all the money we spend on higher education, though, employers often complain that college graduate job applicants are inadequately prepared for the working world. Some college professors blame the nation's faltering public education system. "What's happened is now 60 percent of students who enter community college need remedial education," The Aspen Institute's Josh Wyner said, with 25 percent of those going to four-year colleges requiring the same. Even if students struggle, though, Wyner said those with associate's degrees earn an average of about $400,000 more over a lifetime than those with a high school diploma, and those with a four-year degree earn about twice that.
The College Affordability Factor
Several listeners called in to speak about the difficulty of obtaining affordable student loans with reasonable interest rates, and the panelists agreed that college needs to be more affordable in the U.S. Harvard University's Claudia Goldin said that although high interest rates are discouraging, she doesn't believe that the cost of college education is something that the public should be paying for. In her view, the capital market should be much better at providing affordable loans, but she looks at the cost of a college education as "individuals investing in themselves" and said that "they should be getting a high return for it."
Could Online Education Help?
One caller lamented about what he sees as the lost potential of online education. The caller, Rick, believed that online higher education could drive costs down significantly and open up higher educational opportunities to many more people. Rosen said that online education is still in its infancy and may yet provide opportunities to people who haven't had them in the past because of prohibitively high costs.
You can read the full transcript here.
Comments
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Qualified for what?
If any profession or trade is overpopulated with capable job applicants this can only depress wages and salaries further, and they are already behind the curve. All the education and training possible will not expand opportunities without increased demand. For individuals nowadays educational debt tends to curb their spending, which depresses demand.
Two choices:
Protectionism- an insulation of the domestic economy to promote self-sufficiency and stateside production while maintaining an acceptable standard of living. Prohibitions and tariffs (provides government income) on imports are the obvious tools. Those hurt would be the speculators and manipulators of rapacious trade.
Outright Globalism: deport our unemployed to low-waged nations where their labor is needed, where they can learn to scrape by without our providing welfare..... or bring those slave wages and squalid living circumstances home by deregulating and repealing minimum wage laws, as suggested by Speaker Gingrich. Those hurt would be almost every goddamn-body.
Notice how Protectionism is ananthema to both major parties?
Who is it they work for again?
How long has it been Reader, since you personally took part in any real productive manual labor? Are you frightened by the idea?
There seems to be a real disconnect between what is expected from higher education and what the business community wants from graduates. When I was a new graduate looking for work, I understood that I would get further training in my new job; higher education couldn't provide me with the specifics they (business) needed. My work in an academic setting was just the starting point, not the end.
It seems now, that businesses want people to just walk into a job, that it’s the educational institution that provides the training that used to be done on the job.
That is the disconnect.
Please comment on the fact that across the US, states have cut education funds to balance their budgets. Additionally, the proliferation of charter schools has further eroded the public school system and have yet to be proved more successful.
My experience is 5 years in St. Louis public schools as a long term substitute and 5 years in 4 counties of SW Michigan as a daily substitute.
"....there has to be an input-output relationship..."
Exactly! Unfortunately, since tuition and fees have gone through the roof, most of us must keep an eye on the ROI. On average, good public schools provide most bang for the buck, at least for in-state students.
Read more here:
http://brainmindinst.blogspot.com/2010/07/value-of-education-economicall...
If your state supports a college fund, enroll your kids as early as you can.
Diane -- can you please ask your guests to discuss the role of a liberal arts education in this debate?
I am an Academic Advisor at a community college in Lansing, MI. It's true that many of the students we see are not "college ready," however, the community college is the "best anti-poverty program" in the country. We work hard to bring students to college level readiness for an associates degree, certification, or transfer to a four-year institution. What is so maddening is talking to so many students who have already gone to for-profit schools (not knowing that they are for profit) and come to us with nothing but student loan debt and and sometimes a worthless piece of paper.
My father is in the position of hiring in construction and finds that the college educated construction workers that apply actually have little or no actual practical experience and have no valuable skills coming out of the contruction major programs at the universities. Why are there so many jobs requiring college eduations when they once only required on the job training or trade school? My dad learned on the job and now he is in the 2nd highest position in the company.
readla:
When you say that charter schools have yet to be proved as more successful, please elaborate. Are you saying that Harlem Success Academy has not proven itself to be more successful? KIP? Or are you saying that there must be a universal standard achieved by all charter schools? If so, by that standard, public education in the USA is a total failure, as it has yet to provide a single standard of excellence, accessible by all.
A new difficulty for many students is that they cannot get financial aid based on their own income. It used to be that a student who had been living on his/her own for a year could claim financial independence from their parents. Now, a FAFSA is required until age 27, even if parents are not contributing a bit to their living expenses!!! And those parents are supposed to be saving their money for retirement and their own expenses. It is a no-win situation for anyone over the poverty line.
College in this country has become a huge money lending business. The needed qualification for college has been dumbed down so everyone can attend. The more that attend the more money can be made.
High school graduates should all refuse to go to college. The fees would soon come down then.
This is a societal/political issue. We have adopted an attitude that 4 year college is for everyone - REQUIRED for everyone who wants to be successful. Parents, teachers, etc at the secondary level are made to believe that anything else equals failure. Technical education at the high school level is marginalized but actually provides curriculum that supports and fosters the critical thinking skills that so many at the post-secondary level noticed have gone missing. Unless our society changes its attitudes towards that 60% of careers which require technical and skilled based training and allows students to explore those careers at the high school level without penalty, we will not be able to solve the job and education crisis.
I think a lot of the problem involves what I call "degree inflation." Now that so many have them, they aren't worth the paper they are written on.
Business' are now asking for people to have a degree for jobs that formerly didn't require one; even if the job itself hasn't changed.
I don't know if it's the tail wagging the dog syndrome, but, I think the "Big College" Industry leads the way in encouraging this thinking.
As an example, the company I work for now requires a degree for ANY position. The degree needn't even be related to the position they are applying for unless it's very technical. The position I started in 12 years ago, which has remained relatively unchanged, now requires a 4 year degree! Why? It's just not needed.
Business' are are unwilling to give people training and then complain that they can't find workers.
You are leaving out the most important factor, the PARENTS!!
There is plenty of material available in schools, but the kids are mostly lazy and have never been forced, nor taught, to STUDY. They expect to be spoon fed information that they can regurgitate to pass meaningless tests! This does not teach them to think or solve problems!
Yes, higher ed has a miserable record and has developed the resort culture to lure in students and extort money from their parents. Beautiful campuses do not good schools make!
Substantial improvement could be be made by establishing sensible curricula and making students learn the material.
The schools CANNOT raise the kids to be good students. There is not enough money in the world to do that. The idea that "everyone deserves" an education is ridiculous!
Diane
You commented that until the last few decades the high schools had adequately prepared students for college and work. It seems to me that the decline of the secondary schools have coincided with two things: 1) the attack on public schools by the Republican party that aimed to reduce resources allocated to the public school systems, and 2) the systematic takeover of the school boards by conservatives beginning in the 1980s.
Thank you for your show. I listen to NPR most days.
I attended a for profit college for 2.5 years. I had two major deaths in my family (my husband and my mother) six months apart. My physican decided that I was severally depressed and should stop school, temporarily. My point is I went through the schools protocol. I was under the impression all was okay.
I tried to go back to finish my B.A. and was told I not only owed the local college. I also, owed my student loans. I understand owing the student loans, which I am paying. I do not know why I owe the physical school, they said it was for tution and books. I understood that was what my grants and loans were for..which I used the money for.
I cannot use my credit because the school will not release them because I owe them money. I was not notificed that my original appeal was denied. I now have to start from scratch because I attended a for profit college.
Diane is absolutely correct in questioning why an airplane maintenance technician should need a higher education degree.
In Germany, people who fill such jobs go through apprenticeships that combine schooling with training on the job. The great advantage for the apprentices is that the education does not cost any. On the contrary, they are getting paid, be it not much.
Has any independant party done a survey to determine where the profits generated by 'for profit' institutions end up? Are those profits reinvested in education or are they removed from the education system?
Bingo! so true! The GOP in particular does not want an educated populace.
what about the educators themselves? I worked for a for-profit school and was distressed to see that they employed NO full-time instructors; every single one was part-time, paid hourly, no health insurance. These people were highly educated, often holding masters degrees. The tuition at the school was very high, but the instructors were scraping by at best.
More broadly, teachers' pay nationally is a scandal. No culture that truly valued education would remunerate its teachers so very poorly.
Yes, and German society does not frown on students at the secondary level exploring and learning the base technical and problem solving skills they will need to begin an internship in mechanics. And, Americans do not realize that many skilled trade jobs pay great salaries. Often the higher wage earners are paid more than teachers.
Ed Schamel:
Nonsense! I come from a town that routinely graduated functionally illiterate kids from high school dating back to the late 1960's - early 1970's. To blame this on political parties is not only ridiculous, it cannot be supported by the facts. As a nation, we spend more per capita on education than any other country in the world. If money and resources is the universal answer, we should be #1 in the world. You seek an easy, hyperbolic answer to a problem that is rooted in third rail issues such as parenting and individual responsibility.
I don’t here the guests getting at the fundamentals of the issue of job preparation. Jobs are increasingly technical and changing increasingly rapidly.
What is needed is a far greater degree of agility. Colleges, with their two to four year programs,
and tuition in the tens of thousands are ill positioned to address the needs of the job market.
As the discussion dances around various incremental changes to the higher education environment
and debates for/not for profit instituations, you ignore the fact that the higher ed model
is fundamentally misalligned with the needs of students and the job market.
I taught at Kaplan in their Masters program. The students were totally ill-prepared, even those about to graduate. Yes, you can elevate graduation rates by simply pushing students through. I resigned in frustration. My experience made clear to me that Kaplan was clearly about money, not education.
A couple of thoughts:
I thought vocational training was given by the vocation??? There used to be training programs and sessions and certificates given specifically by companies to train and inform their employees. Is that not the case anymore? Shouldn't the company that is benefitting from the profits created by the employee's work be the one to foot at least part of the bill for that employee's acquisition of job-specific knowledge?
Also, I always thought that college's main objective was to teach critical thinking-- despite what area of study the student chose as a major.
There is too much emphasis placed on post high school education. I know many people with 4 year degrees that make far less than a person that graduated high school and started in a trade related field. Qualified tradesman are far and few between because of an aging workforce and the idea that you have to have a degree to be successful, this is keeping young men and women from having an intrest in the work that their fathers and grandfathers preformed and were proud of.
My parents have a combined income of 150k and the majority of their income is tied up in hosed they have invested in as a retirement security. Yet all the houses have mortgages that have not been paid off and all have a second mortgage taken out against them. I do not qualify for subsidized loans and the loans i do qualify for require a cosigner. I am finishing at my local community college with a 3.2 GPA and a drive to finish with a biology degree. My cost for higher education is difficult to reason but my goal is set in stone. I just hope my goal is not blinding me to the pit falls of high priced education.
Also the price of books is ridiculous and drives many students that i know to pirate books and print them off for a quarter of the price.
I heard a great point about students and the ability for them to self-motivate but the fact is that the way these kids are taught is due for a serious overhaul. You have kids that are extremely smart and talented but the way that they are taught is quite possibly the most tedious and boring way imaginable. I am 30 and can still remember being in class gleaming information off of what the teacher was saying just so I could pass a test. Now you have a whole generation of kids like me who had the talent but got lost in the system to deal with.
I am a chemistry professor at a 4-year university, and also adopted a special-needs teenager in 2003, when he was 16, who I hoped would be able to take advantage of tuition credits that are part of my compensation package. My son turned out to be unwilling, or unable, to stay focused on that goal. His situation has taught me to doubt the repeated assertions of liberal politicians and educators--among which I used to include myself-- that it is the educators who are failing the students. The claim that we are offering too many opportunities in high schools, to students who are already the most advantaged, and too few to students who need community colleges, is balderdash. We need to settle on a common message: parents of young students have the primary responsibility for make sure that their children have the emotional tools, and the character, to succeed in school. Nothing else really matters. Parents who fail their children in the first 6 months, or first 6 years, of their lives, are responsible for most of the damage done to these kids. No other punishment than a guilt trip is appropriate for these parents, but the societal guilt trip is absolutely necessary. It takes a village.
"We cannot predict of future job requirements..."
Companies understand best what their needs are going to be. They should take responsibility for in-house training when the needs arise. A liberal arts degree is not required for this. Alas, it remains one possible springboard for post-graduate education.
The statement, "twenty years ago a web-designer would have been a spider." is a bit disingenuous. 20 years ago the web was almost two years old...
Furthermore, on the topic that statement was related to, how dare anyone pretend that a 4-year degree in liberal arts, alone, will get someone anything but debt and an education. That is simply a mean thing to keep spouting. You want a liberal arts degree, great. Expect to continue your education in order to get a job!