Millionaires, Taxes And Jobs
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-12/millionaires-taxes-and-jobs
In an interview on cbs sixty minutes last night, president Obama said the very rich can afford to pay a little more in taxes. In a major speech last week, he argued that even before the recent recession, Americans at the top of the income scale managed to keep their effective tax rates low and grow wealthier than those in lower brackets. Republicans accuse the president of engaging in class warfare. They say tax hikes on the wealthy would be a strike against those in a position to create new jobs. In this hour, a panel joins Diane to discuss taxing millionaires and the effect on creating new jobs.
Guests
Tamara Keith
NPR congressional reporter
Eric Toder
fellow, Urban Institute, and co-director, Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.
David Kocieniewski
New York Times reporter, author of the series "... But Nobody Pays That"
Comments
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David Kocieniewski made my day at about 37:23 into the program where he says one way to address the problem is by doing NOTHING by the end of 2012 because that's when the Bush tax cuts will expire. Nothing! That's EXACTLY what congress is good at! Woohoo!
Payroll tax 'cut' = equals less money in my savings account (social security). How can we call it a payroll tax 'cut' ? Call it a decrease in my savings. Then I understand what is happening. ...I'm putting less in my savings account so I can spend more now. Ok, I get it.
-- Politicians are allowing me to save less. Well, why don't they just say so?
-- Oh wait, but the government is borrowing money to make up for what I did not put into my savings account .....? So, I'm not paying now but I'm going to pay later? And they decided for me?
- Lewis Matson
(unemployed science teacher with no unemployment with free time to listen to NPR)
Plymouth, New Hampshire
I must say this seemed one of the more vacuous conversations I ever heard on DR Show.
The subject matter was great- the conversation was not.
Cameron said she went to GOP and no one could point her to any actual small business owner that made over million annually that could support the proposition that tax breaks for millionaire's create jobs. Then she asked on facebook for these millionaires and no one could support the notion tax breaks for wealthy help create jobs.
So Cameron- are you able to draw any conclusions? are you capable of thought?
This comments page seems to contain much more interesting conversation than anything said on show today.
David,
"Er.... Umm...er... Ummm.... Errr... Um... err... Ummm.
Spit it out man, you're boring us to tears.
How bout actually talking about the premise of show: do tax breaks for wealthy stimulate job growth?... In America (as opposed to firing Americans and hiring overseas).
Reading the transcript, as expected all of this was nothing more than finding ways to pay for more government spending. What idiot thinks that's a good idea. Drew?
Eric,
You stated a bunch of facts (in most boring monotone imaginable).
Any conclusions? Any actual... like... thoughts?
The rich are sitting on tons of cash and failing to create jobs. If they truly object to higher taxes, there's a simple way for them to shelter their money against paying tax at higher rates: invest it in creating jobs.
"JULIAN
10:50:02
Hi. I have -- I keep hearing about this income in equity and tax in equity, and I went on the IRS website and found that the top 1 percent of the earners in this country, those making $500,000 and more, pay, at least in 2008, paid a third of the total income tax while the bottom 50 percent paid almost no income tax..."
"KOCIENIEWSKI
10:52:02
Yes. And I just like to add a couple statistics that the percentage paid by the people at the very top has been falling. The top 1 percent in 1985 paid about 29 percent effective rate, and as of 2008, it was down to 23..."
"TODER
10:52:33
You know, and I would say, you know, when we look at the percentage, the top 1 percent, we count not only the individual income taxes but the extent to which the corporate income tax burdens them. So our figures for what the top 1 percent pay is somewhat higher than what David cites."
JULIAN claims the top 1% paid a Third of the total Income Tax in 2008.
KOCIENIEWSKI corrects that, saying it was actually down to 23 % by 2008.
TODER says the higher figure should include "the extent to which the corporate income tax burdens them".
Interesting! The top 1% pays the Corporate taxes too?? Another of the old saws the Republicans keep tossing out is full with pooh??
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
I have been a small business owner for over 10 years, and I completely agree with the point made on the show that the "millionaire tax" would have very little, if any, impact on my business. Most small businesses I know don't make enough money to be affected by the tax. But even if we were making many millions of dollars in profit, our hiring decisions are purely a function of demand for the product: When there is more business, we hire more; when business slows down, we need to lay off people. Taxes are largely irrelevant. There are so many ways to write off profits (assuming you have a good accountant) that the millionaire tax would have no affect on our business. It is a political excuse.
Monte wrote:
"Reading the transcript, as expected all of this was nothing more than finding ways to pay for more government spending. What idiot thinks that's a good idea?"
I didn't read the manuscript, but listened to show, and I don't remember any mention about finding new ways for more government spending.
Does the possibility exist that you "read that in" to transcript because your views are so strong on the subject?
I do recall a caller, who sounded perhaps to be a prosperous businessman say that he and those he knew would agree that greater taxes on wealthy were justified IF they were used to pay down national debt. I think that's a marvelous step in right direction if GOP realizes that it will take MORE than simply spending cuts to handle our nation's currentdebt.
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
"Yes, I confess I am successful and comfortably off, and I do pay taxes according to the law as it is. But understand that I am of a mind to change the law to give you poorer men a better chance while those Big Men you admire and even worship are convinced they must keep you peons in order to fully enjoy their largesse. You attack me, your friend; and lick your Elite enemy like a rabid raccoon."
You are a legend in your own mind.
"I do pay taxes according to the law as it is."
No. I don't think you realized that people who put money in Swiss Bank accounts are often tax evaders. That's because you made it up and now you're trying to recover.
Your braggadocio is not verifiable on the web. Now if you would like you could scan a tax return that shows your name, post it free on the web (at say, angelfire.com) and give us a link. Anything else is just MB BS.
And as for being the "friend of the peon", in the parable of the snake and the frog, you are the snake. A liberal progressive is the most dangerous thing known to the free man. The liberal progressive want a government that simulates the slave holder of the 18th and 19th century. He says, "Keep him poor. Keep him dependant. Keep him under my thumb". It's disgusting.
"KOCIENIEWSKI
10:17:46
Yes. You know, one of the other tax implications we've heard this year from corporations is that they would like a tax holiday. They have -- corporations are not taxed on money that they earn overseas if they don't bring it back to the U.S. They're asking -- there's now more than $1 trillion that U.S. corporations have, and they're saying, if you give us a tax holiday and let us bring that back at 5 percent instead of 35, there'll be all kinds of hiring, and that will help spur the economy."
"KOCIENIEWSKI
10:18:12
They're actually trying to sell it as a private sector stimulus. However, if you look at what happened when the similar policy was tried in 2004, just the opposite happened. Some of the biggest corporations brought money back, and the companies who brought the most money back actually laid off workers. So I think..."
Wouldn't that be ducky!! Kiss off $300 Billion in taxes so the rats can repatriate ONE TRILLION BUCKS stolen by exporting American Jobs.
Maybe they are afraid of the Overseas Banks and want to bring it Home, park it with Fed and wait for the Crash and Deflation they have been planning for years.
David Kocieniewski, great Guest, great Guy!!
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
"johnandere wrote:
A liberal progressive is the most dangerous thing known to the free man. The liberal progressive want a government that simulates the slave holder of the 18th and 19th century. He says, "Keep him poor. Keep him dependant. Keep him under my thumb". It's disgusting.
December 12, 2011 - 11:24 pm"
Pathetic!! Social Security, OSHA, Unions, Minimum Wages, Unemployment Compensation, Medicare, Credit, all the things that help the "Slaves" and unrelentingly attacked by you slimy vipers for over a half-Century.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
"kathleen wrote:
unions unions unions...no other way to provide and change lower paid wages. No other way.
December 12, 2011 - 10:49 am"
Maybe you and your Teamster Father can go on the DR Show sometime and explain how the Wall Street Gnomes and Bloodsuckers were able to pillage the Teamster's Pension Funds, probably the best run Pension Fund in the Country.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
I enjoyed the program but think that it missed the point of the ferment which has raised this issue to this level. Taxing the 1% more would do little to address the vanishing middle class nor to eliminate the deficit. We have experienced considerable growth in "wealth-fare" (this is not a typo but a play on words) and unless the vast majority of the 99% do everything in their power as voters, it will simply continue. The corruption in the system which allows multiple misuses of government funds and lack of regulation is responsible for this growth of "wealth-fare" and can only be addressed by an informed and active voting block which ignores party and votes for necessary outcomes.
mchaun wrote:
"Pathetic!! Social Security, OSHA, Unions, Minimum Wages, Unemployment Compensation, Medicare, Credit, all the things that help the "Slaves" and unrelentingly attacked by you slimy vipers for over a half-Century."
Listen to yourself!
Those are all things that KEEP PEOPLE DEPENDANT ON GOVERNMENT!!!
We are a nation of free men. Liberal progressives have made men slaves.
It is useless to give any additional money (taxes) to government unless we first stop government waste - Foreign Wars, Foreign Aid, Foreign Borrowing ..... . Then and only then any additional taxes should be used for domestic purposes.