Millionaires, Taxes And Jobs
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-12-12/millionaires-taxes-and-jobs
In an interview on cbs sixty minutes last night, president Obama said the very rich can afford to pay a little more in taxes. In a major speech last week, he argued that even before the recent recession, Americans at the top of the income scale managed to keep their effective tax rates low and grow wealthier than those in lower brackets. Republicans accuse the president of engaging in class warfare. They say tax hikes on the wealthy would be a strike against those in a position to create new jobs. In this hour, a panel joins Diane to discuss taxing millionaires and the effect on creating new jobs.
Guests
Tamara Keith
NPR congressional reporter
Eric Toder
fellow, Urban Institute, and co-director, Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.
David Kocieniewski
New York Times reporter, author of the series "... But Nobody Pays That"
Comments
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mrsgreelish wrote:"If that car dealer left the profit from the 50 cars to his heirs it isn't taxed"
You got a strange way of thinking, that car dealer would pay income tax on those profits.
RABBI trusts are NOT tax exempt!
The employer is not allowed a deduction for contributions to the RABBI trust until benefits are actually paid to, and taxable to the executive.
Investment earnings in the RABBI trust ARE taxed to the trust at individual tax rates with few of the offsets allowed to corporations and individuals.
The sole purpose of the RABBI trust is to protect the DEFERRED income the executive chooses to set aside to receive in retirement from "change of heart" by the employer. The change of heart concern is the risk of a hostile takeover by corporate raiders and such.
RABBI trust assets are assets of the employer until actually paid to the executive. The employer is prohibited from recovering the assets but the assets are subject to recovery by the bankruptcy court.
The explanation given for the origin of the RABBI trust left out a very important fact. That RABBI was working with a hostile congregation. That congregation did not sponsor a tax-qualified retirement plan and the pension promised the RABBI would have been totally revocable by the congregation. In order to retain the RABBI they established an irrevocable trust which served as a pattern that came to be referred to as RABBI trusts for obvious reasons.
By the way, RABBI trusts are of no use to Sub S corporations because they remain assets of the corporation and thus the contributions would still be included in the executive's taxable income.
Sub S refers to a corporation incorporated under subsection 1120(s) of the Internal Revenue Code. Sub S incorporation provides some liability protections and operating integrity but without the double taxation levied on companies incorporated under subsection 1120(c).
Mike Check! Mike Check!
(Now repeat what Grady says.)
This is a little off topic but there is alot of talk about stimulating small business, or the lack there of. I'm on my 3rd yr of building my diner (out of very shallow pockets). I've used the SBA to do quite a bit of research and have found them to be a useful tool. However they can only bring you to the bank they can't make the bank lend, often without securing the loans with certain % 80/20, 50/50 and so on, its similar to the stafford loan program. This leads in to my main point. Why not expand these programs that are already in place to stimulate actual SMALL business, NOT 200 or 2,000 employees but 5. If I were to try and get a loan it would be considered a micro loan $50,000 or less. probably about the same as I would spend at a University. Students with large debt and no prospects might have been better served had they been able to invest in self created jobs. The debt could have been equity, Obviously this is not for everyone but it seems like another choice apart from the traditional logic of University education=$ it also = debt. spend wisely.
I'm curious as to what fraction of the audience understand what marginal tax rates are, and just how adjustable they are?
(For myself, I can't help but think that brackets, as opposed to a continuous function of income, inevitably introduce unpleasant effects at their boundaries.)
Stephanie: answer on McConnell re-election inquiry= racism, fear, deference to wealth and authority, religious indoctrination, feelings of inferiority, purposeful ignorance.....
To set this up, my parents are both graduate level scientists and make/have plenty of money. I ran off to the army when I turned 18, I pay for my own school, I won't take a dime from my family now, nor will I inherit anything other than memories and photographs.
If you wish to talk about moral correctness, then you should consider what would be be best for the society. Taxes take all the inheritance? Surely not. Half, one third? Let us not forget that we want to promote innovation, development, growth, hard work (things that will make America great, eventually). I don't want to live in a society (though I did grow up in one) that lives off the lottery, or on the riches earned by generations past. To inherit wealth is fine, but does a 30 year old man who inherits $300,000, quits his job, buys a house and a van and lives by not spending money really contribute any more than those horrible unemployed people (to use the sentiments of my misguided republican party)?
Morality should be understood as a societal construct. What is best for you should ALWAYS be good for society. Robbing a bank isn't good for you because it hurts society. Hoarding resources isn't good for you because it hurts society.
If we want to see a stronger, more prosperous team America, perhaps we should consider lowering income taxes, and look to raise more money off of incomes or transactions that contribute less to the productivity of America (capital gains, inheritance, etc.)
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
"johnandere: I doubt you possess the kind of fortune subject to inheritance taxes. Why do you care then?"
First, you don't know what I possess. Second, it does not surprise me, based on what I have seen of your posts and what others say about what you post that you have no concept of what a moral argument even entails.
"All value comes from workers' labor "
Kind of reminds me of "Arbeit macht frei". (Google it for the translation).
No. All value does NOT come from workers' labor. Without entrepreneurs who are willing to put their money at risk, there ARE no workers.
"You can't take it with you at death so why not share?"
You do not understand the difference between "sharing" and "confiscation". The death tax confiscates wealth. People are free to bequeath their wealth (i.e. share) any time they want.
Yours is the view of one who has never had the guts to risk anything - who have basically failed at grasping the opportunity life in this country offers - but instead will try to take from others who have gained from being smart and entrepreneurial of whom you have raging envy. That is the IMMORAL argument of the death tax.
dangerbair: Fascists would complain that by loaning to poor boys like you we only create bubbles. And they will argue this until they are collecting the exorbitant interest on your loan and bundling it with many shaky commercial loans to sell fraudulently to unknowing investors. And they call themselves "jab craters", and they are above the law. Good eatin' and cookin' my man, and an excelllent Holiday.
@ Steph Cooper:
Because we only get Fox News in public places. When all we know is hatred for anyone that isn't white and completely self-absorbed, it is really very difficult to expect more from us.
My daughter-in law is African-American and my sweet Grandson is from that bloodline as well as my white-Swedish bloodline. Do you think for a minute that I am racist? I want equality for all and opportunities for all. I just do not want to be penalized for working hard to have a business that pays me well. My goal is to help and teach anyone who asks, to make a living like I am working for. The talk of my myopic view is myopic in his or her own way in stating that my view is wrong and I disagree. All views are valid as they come from varied experiences, cultures and educations. They are personal views and if we as Americans cannot understand and overcome this melting-pot of great people and views, we will never get to the place where all people are valid and should have a say in this life’s journey.
Grady Lee Coward wrote:
"Mike Check! Mike Check!
(Now repeat what Grady says.)"
Why? All Grady Lee Coward does is accuse people he doesn't agree with of being "racist" when he is the PROVEN racist by calling Herman Cain an "Oreo"!
"answer on McConnell re-election inquiry= racism,"
Now Grady Lee Coward says "McConnell is a racist too"! Grady Lee Coward does not realize that he weakens the charge to a point where it has no meaning when he uses it at every turn against people with whom he simply disagrees. (Does this reflect on Gready Lee Coward's intellect?) He does a true disservice to people of color everywhere who may be ACTUAL victims of racism. But what does Grady Lee Coward care? Answer: he doesn't.
johnandre (probably a NSA operator):
So how did people get anything before Big Men like you were invented?
I think they probably worked.
The entrepreneur with his greed is unnecessary to the equation.
For example I've been out picking up pecans to make a pie this morning and I see no speculators in the equation. Can you not understand that the rich die too? That you will die someday?
I've been a commodities speculator for 6 years and have made a nice sum, while losing somewhat less. Right now I've cashed out and parked in a Swiss account because irresponsible Oligarchs are collapsing the system. Maybe some greed bugs will get stepped upon.
Frejdyn wrote:
"Morality should be understood as a societal construct. What is best for you should ALWAYS be good for society. Robbing a bank isn't good for you because it hurts society. Hoarding resources isn't good for you because it hurts society."
Yes, the autority of the STATE should ALWAYS trump the rights of the individual! That is the principal this country was founded on, right?!
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles (Germany, German, over all)!
"The entrepreneur with his greed is unnecessary to the equation."
Yes, Google and Microsoft would have just grown up if enough workers got together! To the board I ask you: How is it that there are people walking around that are this stupid?!
"I've cashed out and parked in a Swiss account "
So you DON'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON IT???!!!
OMG!!!
You're either a liar or a hypocrite, which is it?!
What a comedian, the Sam Kiniston of economics, j-o-o-o-ohn a-a-andre!
Money is what he loves! And he keeps shouting those Nazi slogans!
Outrageous! Sarah Silverman is rolling on the floor.
You're either a liar or a hypocrite, which is it?!
Are you asking Lloyd Blankfein?
Couldn't you get in trouble for nagging a rich guy?
I have just enough net worth that I need not answer either.
But I do take risks.
I'm an actor by profession.
I read a report last year that said only 13% of the jobs expected to be created by 2015 will pay an individual enough to live above the poverty line. How does the creation of those jobs benefit me and my poverty-level family's attempted upward rise and dream of financial security better than a higher tax level on the rich? If I wanted to work in fast food I could do that now.
KRISTINA- Can you remember where you read that statistic? I am curious because I can use it in my work. Fast food is one of the most legally non-compliant and degrading professions. Avoid it. They will have you arrested for munching a fry, and most people pack on the weight from deferred hunger and anxious food insecurity. Behind McDonald's counter a sign reads,"Move don't think!" Pretty dangerous considering the deep fryers, and just the way our two party system works. beretco.op@hotmail.com
I'm sure he could have found them and the tax load and Ridiculous Union demands pretty much require that big business go elsewhere. If you want to point fingers, then point them squarely at the union thugs, after all why should the people that put their personal and family economic lives at stake be allowed to reap the benifits. Instead we can just shower the profits on the people that can move away at their discretion and have no vested interest in the success of said organization.
Needing tigers because of their natual beauty is not going to help. I would think that the value as was said is the problem. That being said, why couldn't it also be the solution. The immune system and the rate that the tiger is able to heal is I believe one of the fastest for mamals. Why doesn't the medical and research community educate and finance a campaign to show the true value of these beautiful creatures and exploit it. I would think anything worth more dead than alive is a battle not worth fighting. The battle is in believing in the fight.
I will agree with ecgberth here.
By distilling anyone who disagrees with you to a disparaging name, tells me more about your maturity than about those who oppose you. That includes using the name coward, instead of Howard. This country ONLY functions with thoughtful intelligent discussion, not with the playground mentality shown here.
I bet $10K that the US will be just fine if millionaires are taxed a little more.
If the top 1% own something like 90% of the wealth in America then shouldn't they being paying more than 50% of all taxes?
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
" have just enough net worth that I need not answer either."
Need not, or CAN'T.
I repeat:
Grady Lee Howard says,
"I've cashed out and parked in a Swiss account "
That makes you a tax dodger - which is what you accuse the "rich" of being.
So I ask you again ...
Are you a liar or a hypocrite? Which is it?!
"I'm an actor by profession."
Yeah. I'll bet you are. Try acting like a human being instead of a hypocrite.
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
"And he keeps shouting those Nazi slogans!"
Really? I believe you were the one that said,
"All value comes from workers' labor "
Echos of the death camps. Nice going!
I strongly disagree that people earning less that "$30,000 or $40,000 a year don't pay taxes".
My Wife owns her own small business. She made around $18,000 last year and paid almost $4000 in taxes.
Everyone pays taxes out the whahooo. The wealthy may pay a higher % of the taxes collected by the government but the but they seem to dodge most of their responsibilities because they can pay accountants to find loop holes for them.
The difference is we have no cushion when the economy goes south as our expenses are a much larger % of our income and we pay taxes. If you take a penny saved as a penny earned as the bar, we are not able to save any money thus we are virtually slaves to the system. I think we need a tax based on wealth not income.
We will call it a wealth license and structure it something like this: if you have say, more than 5 million in the bank as personal income(not working capital, personal wealth) then you have to pay 50% of it, 10 million, 70%, 20 million 80% and more than 70 million 98%.
Then give them a choice of how they who and how they want to pay.
If you pay your employees health insurance higher wages then you can deduct that money + a % extra to be credited against the above tax schedule, depending on how much you are giving back to the community.
That way we can satisfy all the people who don't want the government have access to all that money.
We'll say if you have paid out 50% of your total yearly wealth created then you get to take a % off of the above schedule(yet to be decided).
This will give the very wealthy a motivation to give back to the commoners from which they accumulated their wealth.
I will continue this in my next post.......
NO ONE NEEDS 4 or 5, million dollar houses and multiple yachts. Having this much money is a threat to our Republic as it gives certain people's voices a much greater weight.
We work hard to barely survive and then we pay 29%+ state income tax and payroll tax sales tax etc. After it is all said and done we pay almost 45% of our income on taxes of one kind or another. Hearing that the capital gains tax is at 17% just kills me. It should be much higher than than income tax as this money is created from sitting on your butt and investing your money(or more likely gambling some poor schmucks money on risky investments).
Thanks for reading!
It's like a Robert Crumb comix the graphics I see in my imagination concerning the authoritarian interrogations I receive from irate and threatening discussants on this site. (They truck all around.)
"I ordered a large cup of Expresso, not a sack of Gestapo!," shrieks the bewildered customer. Somehow the losers of triumphant corporate Capitalism blame me when the structural barriers of class and opportunity seem more than adequate in crushing their efforts. Yes, I confess I am successful and comfortably off, and I do pay taxes according to the law as it is. But understand that I am of a mind to change the law to give you poorer men a better chance while those Big Men you admire and even worship are convinced they must keep you peons in order to fully enjoy their largesse. You attack me, your friend; and lick your Elite enemy like a rabid raccoon. (You do not behave like real sincere bloggers and may be fakes.)
Luckily I am not required to associate in person with the criminally insane thanks to Internet anonymity (and my proxy server).
What really hurts my feelings is that few people ever email me when I extend a frank invitation.
Golden brown nut pies with the oatmeal crust are cooling on the marble slab. My relentless nutcracking has paid off and I am a wealthy laborer. Will I add natural vanilla bean ice cream or low fat Cool Whip?
I think it worthy of the Dreyer's. Root beer is the appropriate beverage with my baked bean casserole and pecan dessert. I really wish all you commentators could be here to taste something delicious, not requiring entrepreneurship, just an ancient spreading fruit tree in the yard. "Nature before business," I always say. Radiating heat from the open oven soothes my aching cares and woes.
Gladdie is safely home from Broadway.