Implications of a Deficit Supercommittee Failure
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-11-22/implications-deficit-supercommittee-failure
The congressional supercommittee on the deficit announced yesterday it had failed. The bipartisan panel was charged with crafting a deficit-reduction plan by Thanksgiving - a plan both sides could agree on. Many observers said the supercommittee was doomed from the start. In today's divided Congress, with six Democrats and six Republicans on the panel, there was little chance for an agreement. Others say it was possible and rue a wasted opportunity to benefit the nation. What the deadlock means for the economy and American families - and what the Obama administration could do about it.
Guests
Norman Ornstein
resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and coauthor of "The Broken Branch: How Congress Is Failing America and How to Get It Back on Track."
Naftali Bendavid
national correspondent, The Wall Street Journal.
Robert Walker
former U.S. Congressman from Pennsylvania (1977-97); chairman of Wexler & Walker Public Policy Associates.
Rep. Chris Van Hollen
Democrat of Maryland, member of the 12-person Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
Way back in these comments a person named Monte claimed that the bottom 50% paid no taxes. Well, maybe not Federal taxes. But that is a ridiculously simplistic take on individual tax burden. Actually, the poorest among us pay about an equal percentage as do the rich in ALL taxes - you know, the taxes that build our roads, schools, pay for state and local services. It takes a lot of work to be well informed and smart. Here is a website for those who would like to actually speak with intelligence.: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/american_income_taxation.htm
Scroll way down to Effective total tax rate by group 2004.
And remember that rents paid to landlords in the form of rent are not even included here. The fact is, the poor pay the highest overall tax rate if you include rents. I am a landlord. If my tenants did not pay rent, I could not pay the taxes.
There are no concrete ramifications for failure. Unlike in a 'real' job, they will will not be fired, their pay will not be docked, they will suffer no consequences for failure other than philosophical, ideological ones. They won't even lose their parking spot. Let's treat committees and Congress like everyone else and have them feel the pain if they don't succeed.
Remember GMG that T-Party volume goes to "11", just like in Spinal Tap.
And the tax pledge,"Don't touch that!"
But you also have to realize that Democrats remain subject to "wealth etiquette" and will be accused of acting socialist or fomenting class warfare when they state facts.
The facts have become vulgar expletives because they offend the Oligarchs.
(Rewind some of the absurd circumlocutions Dennis Kucinich must resort to in stating his House floor arguments. He sounds like Professor Irwin Corey, a long dead comedian.)
"The System" was written [in a primitive-technology age] in a very "small nation" where China was a million miles away, California was inaccessible! and only Europe and the Brits _were=? a real threat, and the middle-east was simply a Bible story.
If we don't get a grip! on our normal-geography and cultural PHantasy; then the cancer will grow, with ambiguity in tow.
Normalcy is the foundation! of civility and responsibility.
Fear is "america's" honest issue, and [tax and war] chit-chat is the distraction of more more more?
If we're looking for a scape-goat [el presidente, siempre] and blind to poverty... we're parleing our social chore to a foreign score and endless war.
"America" would be very foreign geographically to our founding fathers, and they would be culturally-in-debt and normally dumb-foundED.
Why do conservatives insist on this notion of "starting class warfare"? Class warfare has been raging for decades, especially since the 2002 Bush tax cuts went into place, the defense spending became the greatest in the world, and the wealthiest Americans saw their taxes decrease dramatically, while the middle and lower income of America saw their incomes decrease.
This is no different than a religious debate -- most conservatives fervently believe tax cuts produce wealth and stimulate growth -- most liberals do not believe this. This debate will never end and never be resolved. Based on the effects of the past decade of tax cuts that were intended to stimulate the economy by Pres. Bush, which have failed, I think it's time we try a different approach and actually raise taxes for the first time in a LONG time on those Americans (including myself) who can afford to pay more. Perhaps it is time for a 3rd, more reasonably party to take the lead.
You are right. THe 99% movement is not just students though. I see quite a few older people, even old people. That because so many of us really care about each other. The politicians just care about votes and making themselves rich. Also in pleasing who they sold their souls to; the corporations big men.
Like you, I really feel for every one who has been beaten by, made sick by the actions of the police. The police have become militarized and have weapons that while less than killing can do a lot of damage. The were yanking the protesters heads back and spraying their chemicals down their throats! Also their coats of armor and shields to come against unarmed non-violent people.
These congressmen are NOT representing us. And this super committee was made from a passing the buck by people up for re-election who didn't think any of themselves could win in this situation.
Another thing is the republicans who swore their primary goal is to make Obama a one term president, more important than the people, more important than our economic health, more important not to not compromise at all, then they do nothing but be obstructionists. I blame Norquist, McConnell, and Fox and it's propaganda that they pass off as "news".
I am listening to this right now, and it is frighteningly oblivious to what is going on in the country. Both sides are back paddling, and the democrats are trumpeting the merits of their plan moving right of what was originally proposed. The lack of any discussion of the people currently on the street and being attacked around the country, who want real government representation is simply wrong.
The most disturbing is Walker. The ease with which he can raise the spectre of class warfare as though the country is not already divided and does not want to support the growing oligarchy and move toward fascism is just astonishing. No opposition to his rhetoric whatsoever. Also the entertainment of the idea that asking more of the richest one percent is discrimination. The writing is on the wall. The right wing thought they had fascism sewn up, but their platform is falling apart. But the brainwashing machine is so effective, it has taken over what most listeners would consider a progressive talk program. There seems to be no alternative for those in touch with reality but revolution, I'd hope a peaceful one, but the co-opting of police by Morgan Chase and attacks on peaceful students at Davis show that this is unlikely. Thank god OWS is unwilling to give up.
I can't BELIEVE the outright COWARDICE that I heard in Tuesday's show! Diane, you asked them a good question, and both panelists shrugged like it wasn't obvious. The answer to what's the difference between previous government eras with the same split in party power and today's? RACISM.
Look at the blatant signs: Obstruction, coercion, blame shifting, disrespect of position, inaction of duty, and SILENCE ABOUT RACIST ACTIONS. We've got to call them out and make them take a good look at themselves. The GOP is in DENIAL. (At least those that aren't direct racists.)
The Republican party seized upon a knee-jerk racist reaction the moment they lost the Presidency to a black man. They chose to work against the Office rather than even begin to do their elected duty. They grabbed the tools of the racist and put a costume called party unity on it so that if anyone looked the GOP could say it was patriotism. If somebody looked closely they would call them traitors. By obstructing every local action the President took they also blocked and slowed the effective government we (the people) would have gained. At any failure from any part of the government they make a point of saying the President was involved in the failure. Every time the GOP disrupted the workings of progress they pointed at the POTUS. And worst of all, like a pack of racist thugs, they treat every act of bitter annoyance like a victory.
In the midst of all the obstructionist, incessant, and inane chanting of "No tax increases" from (mostly) the Republicans, the mainstream media consistently fails to do its job of fact-checking the argument's major claim: is there any evidence to support the Republican position that new jobs will be plentiful under their version of a "cut spending, no increased revenue" economy? The discussion today should be about the missing evidence that Republicans ignore when it comes to jobs and lowering taxes.
Instead of endlessly repeating just how low Congress has sunk in its ability to govern, we should be reading, hearing, and seeing a history of deficits, tax rates, job growth, wage rates, and SEC (de)regulations correlated with these same trends. And then the Congress members should be forced to answer a qualifying quiz on these issues -- live on TV and radio -- before we listeners are subjected to their opinions. Perhaps then we would not hear as much of the impossibly disingenuous misinformation that passes for 'informed' opinion these days.
For an example of the kind of reporting that goes behind the opinions and starts to present facts and correlations, see the Terry Gross interview with Tim Dickinson on his recent Rolling Stone article, Fresh Air from WHYY
Moby Toad, today's topic was about the federal governments taxing and spending, if you don't like what I say fine but at least hold me to the issues on the topic discussed. If you read my posts with any regularity you would see I do say people are over taxed at every level, including the bloated local government level. Spending is the problem everywhere where government is involved.
I haven't had time to scan all the comments, but is anyone beside me glad the Super Committee failed. This whole Deficit Reduction thing is a scam at a time when we need government spending for jobs. I know what the Republicans say, but there is not a single reputable economic theory that supports cutting deficits during a recession. The private sector is already sitting on tons of money, but unwilling to move. The government needs to break the spending deadlock to create jobs. I am tired of hearing supply side jargon given the same weight as time-proven Keynesian economics. And where were all these deficit hawks during the G. W. Bush administration. If this isn't primarily a political ploy to gain power, then I don't know what is.
There is so much more that could be said. Let me conclude with the idea that finally the strength of a society can be measured by the way it cares for its most vulnerable members.
The real challenge may be the AMERICAN PEOPLE, not the parties. In this time of great uncertainty, the American people, or a vocal minority, is asking for easy (slogan) answers, do not raise any taxes, do not make any cuts in my entitlements. The politicians respond to these simplified positions by agreeing in order to get elected And the politicians do not have the courage to tell the truth to the American people, there are no easy answers, compromise is necessary.
Perhaps we can have "automatic budget cuts" that go into affect to reduce congressional salaries if they can't seem to reach a concensus. Then maybe we'd have something.
Diane, this conversation is very frustrating. I can't believe that we are discussing not taxing the rich. I watch a show called Selling New York and it blows my mind to see that some people buy houses worth $13.4 millions or pay $30,000 in rent a month, when some of us are struggling to pay our rents, mortgages and put food on the table and still pay our fair share of taxes. These people are not adding money to thelocal economy. They buy luxury items and travel on their private jets. , the working poor, buy local and put our $$ back in the economy. As an independent, no Republican will get my vote because they do not stand for anyone that is like me.
Republicans are not necessarily math challenged, but it is useful to note that they can sort of ignore important facts from time to time. Congressman Walker pointed out that dropping income tax in favor of a "consumption tax" would be a good idea. Assume a wealthy person makes $100 million a year and now pays the absurdly low 15% capital gains on those earnings (which are almost certainly from investments rather than a salary). That would equal $15 million paid to Uncle Sam. Say the "consumption tax" was set at 20%. That person would have to spend $75 million A YEAR to pay the same in taxes. The richest people in the world don't consume anywhere near that much - especially year after year after year! Meanwhile, working class Americans would see their "consumption tax" or sales tax go from 8% (or as little as 0% in some states) to 20%. ALL economists agree that sales taxes are the most regressive and unfair of any tax system. Try to explain all this to a Republican. Good luck.
In other western societies, all members of congress would resign when they become dysfunctional. I'm baffled that in USA there are no consequences at all for members of congress when they are unable to govern their country.
A resignation would also solve the lock that is held by some pledge.
distractions (evil laughing... )
as no ONE speaks of OCCUPY ideal
or the REAL solution:
Soylent Green Industries- reducing demand
While increasing supplies ?
Todays protein answer
IS tomorrows people
at least US thought so...
As at 7 billion people
your wasted planet again
FINALLY has value.
Seems every ten thousand
Of your so called years
Children bless US these hollow daze
as US people NOW economically viable
to start the harvest again.
place membership based on servixe armed OR actual life in worst part of state...
that alone should rapidly cure ills as ALL resources of country concentrated on the people in a nonSoylent way(this message NOT supported or funded in any way by Soylent Green Industries- ITs what for dinner, Tuesday, or the neighbors- more than a job- a way of life).
I think ignoring facts is one of Republican's strong points - after all, they have an agenda, and to get what they want, they must convince the rest of us it is good for us and the country, when it is really good for the few, not the many.
I seemed to catch a short acknowledgement from Congressman Walker that yes, Republicans want to shrink government down very_ small - then have private businesses take up where it leaves off.
Now to me, this conflicts with the purpose of government protecting all our best interests, when private businesses must protect the interests of their investors first. We must have protection for our commonwealth. Republicans don't_do_that...they are very clear that they protect private business/enterprise first.
I still favor a progressive tax, and cannot understand why there is outrage about it in a time of global crisis, when taxes on the wealthiest are the lowest they have been in decades, their wealth is growing exponentially as others decline, and it is clear the policies have favored them.
Wealth HAS been redistributed upwards - there is no disputing that, and if there is a class war...it is obvious who is winning.
The tax cuts were instituted to disperse the surplus from the Clinton years. It is long gone...as the tax cuts for the wealthiest should be.
Grover Norquist - I listened to him in Diane's interview and on the recent tv appearance, and no matter what anyone says, this pledge is a problem. Now, Norquist has not been elected by any of us, yet he pressures all Republican/Conservative and Tea Party candidates to take the pledge - if they don't, major PAC money will be thrown against their election. If they try to get out, major PAC money will be thrown against their RE-election.
Study after study has shown that money can make or break a candidate...of COURSE the man wields power.
I don't know how Conservatives can claim Democrats won't compromise, when they have removed one of their bargaining chips entirely, before discussions even begin! Its as though we are asking them to violate their religion, by asking for them to chip in tax hikes for the wealthiest. Is Norquist the leader of their church?
Yes, look at his connections...a good crop of lawless people who believe they can and should make decisions for the rest of us, without our knowing or input - their American Dream, our American Nightmare. Now, I understand why he would be mightily pleased with himself, but I do hope his success is short-lived.
I also want to tell Diane that I have been bragging to Conservatives about her treatment of Norquist on her show - when someone tried to call him a traitor, she cut the caller off. Fox could learn some manners from her, and learn something about the value of allowing a guest to speak, and letting us form our own opinion about it. She obviously has more restraint than I do:)