Implications of a Deficit Supercommittee Failure
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-11-22/implications-deficit-supercommittee-failure
The congressional supercommittee on the deficit announced yesterday it had failed. The bipartisan panel was charged with crafting a deficit-reduction plan by Thanksgiving - a plan both sides could agree on. Many observers said the supercommittee was doomed from the start. In today's divided Congress, with six Democrats and six Republicans on the panel, there was little chance for an agreement. Others say it was possible and rue a wasted opportunity to benefit the nation. What the deadlock means for the economy and American families - and what the Obama administration could do about it.
Guests
Norman Ornstein
resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and coauthor of "The Broken Branch: How Congress Is Failing America and How to Get It Back on Track."
Naftali Bendavid
national correspondent, The Wall Street Journal.
Robert Walker
former U.S. Congressman from Pennsylvania (1977-97); chairman of Wexler & Walker Public Policy Associates.
Rep. Chris Van Hollen
Democrat of Maryland, member of the 12-person Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Comments
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As to why Congress is broken. I'm taking this directly from Mann and Ornsteins own book review:
"No package of reforms will force lawmakers to develop a strong sense of institutional identity and loyalty, to strengthen an empty ethics process, to open up the policy process for serious deliberation, or to develop a new fealty to the regular order. Reforms will not eliminate arrogance, greed, insensitivity, or impropriety.
One problem is that the tools currently being abused have legitimate uses and can't be simply eliminated.
The destruction of the seniority system provides a lesson in unintended consequences. Competition for leadership positions in the various committees has been determined not by capability or experience, but by who can raise the most money for the party campaign chest. In other words, leadership positions are now up for sale.”
Note that last line....what is the problem again? MONEY! All attempts at geting money out of the system have failed and so now we are dealing with the distruction of our own country by money. Both Parties are broken and beholden to money.
With the "Super" Committee's failure, I believe EVERY American should vote against EVERY seated member of Congress when up for re-election. They need to hear the message: 1. This is no way to run a Superpower; 2. This is the way to run a failing, fading Superpower; 3. Compromise is not a bad word. 4. We want you to GOVERN, not posture and foment conflict. And then WE, the American people, need to make major changes to our democracy. It is broken. Let's start with the shameful way the States handle redistricting, but let that be ONLY the beginning. I'm sick and tired of it. Can you tell? Charles Penot, Dallas, TX
TB wrote>"Note that last line....what is the problem again? MONEY! All attempts at geting money out of the system have failed and so now we are dealing with the distruction of our own country by money. Both Parties are broken and beholden to money."
Wrong again TB, politicians are forced to conform to the wishes and demands of a incoherent, ignorant, foolish and manipulated electorate. What they do in their spare time is to enrich themselves with insider information.
Wrong monte....
"politicians are forced to conform to the wishes"....of Grover Norquist. A system contaminated by money is being destroyed by money. We are a nation under the influence of the wealthy and that corporations. Until we remove their influence we may as all be living in a feudal state.
Grover Norquist advocates for no tax increases, politicians sign an agreement TO GET VOTES that they will not increase taxes and they are helped by this to win elections. The idea is to starve the beast. The financial supporters of Grover Norquist are free as they should be in a free country to support advocacy groups that reflect their interest. No politician is bound by Grover Norquist in any legal way to fulfill this pledge and have only the VOTERS scorn to deal with if they should backtrack. I would say the people who support Grover Norquist are much better informed an more intellectually honest than the typical voter.
Not sure why you intermingled Grover Norquist with corporations. Corporations should have the right to get information across, it is up to the people to accept it or not, but telling others they are not as smart as you and can be easily influenced is just plain condescending. If you were honest you would go after public employee unions because that is where the true corruption lays when it comes to palm greasing politics.
We have the government we deserve, if people are worried about reality tv shows and endless meaningless text messages, facebook and twitters, who's fault is that. A proper running government needs and educated sophisticated electorate, we have just the opposite. People like yourself are just plain high on the idea of a socialist utopia.
Wrong again...intellectually honest, what a joke.
Did our founders intend for men who have never been elected, to force Congress to make "pledges" to them, about all our most important legislation? Did the founders intend for our elected leaders to make an OATH to somebody like Grover Norquist? OF COURSE NOT.
The Founders asked Congress to take an OATH OF OFFICE that "they would defend & protect the US Constitution against all its enemies, both foreign and domestic." The elected Congress are to take orders from WE the PEOPLE who have elected them to represent all of us.--- Not just to represent the most greedy corporate interests in America.
THUS, the TeaBaggers and the Congressmen who have taken the Pledge with Grover Norquist, have VIOLATED their OATH OF OFFICE, & should therefore be forced to resign their post in Congress. They have become the "domestic enemies" that we are to protect our Constitution from. They're subverting the whole process of democracy, destroying the very government which the founders intended for America.
Grover Norquist told Politico that “the no tax pledge was powerful but he was not”. The man has no apparent ability to control whether anyone does or does not adhere to his edict that they MUST abide by his little scrap of paper. It is only six or seven lines long and holds spaces for only their name, state/district, date, signature and two witnesses (in case one disappears?).
Grover’s had a rather strange group of close acquaintances over the years.... gives you reason to wonder about his background. Friends like Oliver North (Iran-Contra), Jack Abramoff (Casino Jack, corrupt lobbying), Tom DeLay (K-Street Project that went bad-convicted and on bail pending appeal), assorted Mozambique, Angolan and Laotian military friends (look it up), Ralph Reed, (born-again lobbyist with Abramoff, more political bad stuff) and once upon a time worked with Newt Gingrich.
So, the Republican legislature, almost to a person, is under the thumb of this particular individual with no known ability to enforce what he has persuaded each of them to do, and which they do, disregarding all the whispers about “what he must have on them” (no doubt some pretty heady bad stuff).
Why would anyone want a group of spineless wusses like that leading our country?
Your thrashing out wildly TB. Unlike you I am justified when I say "I rest my case"
TB
From what I've gathered, the sequestration can be changed or abandoned entirely before 2013. Why has this been covered as if the deadline this week was a final deadline?
TB
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." -- Louis Brandeis
TB, TB, TB?
Monte, Teece Bowman spoke fairly eloquently to the subject of Grover and the "no tax" pledge, at end of which you say, :
"I am justified... I rest my case."
Then you wonder why she (he) doesn't respond??
Here's a couple of possibilities:
1)she has other obligations
2) she has trealized discussing issues with you is akin to talking to a brick wall.
Monte wrote: "politicians are forced to do the wishes and demands of an incoherent, ignorant, foolish and manipulated electorate".
Over 75% of Americans approve of eliminating W tax cuts and in general greater taxes on the wealthy.
If congress pulled head out of butt long enough to pass these simple measures, you would think their approval rate would go up considerably. Yes?
Monte: " I would say the people that support Grover Norquist are much better informed and more honest than typical voter."
Apparrently you believe you're better informed and not 'manipulated'- what's your sources? Fox "News"?
Teece pointed out Glover's close acquaintandces include Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Delay-
Are these some of the enlightened sources you worship?
Any congressman that would lower themselves to pledge an allegiance to someone such as Grover is doing a grave disservice to their country. and obviously don’t possess the integrity to “lead” themselves out of a paper bag.
GOP's grand 'compromise' proposal of superduper committee included PERMANENT extension of the Bush tax cuts.
That's akin to saying to someone sinking in quicksand;
"I'll see if I can help you out, but I'm first going to push you down in up to your nose".
The phrase "We the People..", is obviously a pinko comi socialist notion, so please let us all support amendment of constitution to "We the top couple % on income scale.." so that this silly debate can be ended.
Drew....
Thanks very much for your support. You are correct, arguing with a conservative is very much like arguing with a brick wall. (they probably think that same about us), the difference is, they're misguided and blind to the addiction of money.
They often talk a good deal about fairness, the fact that the rich pay too much and their other favorite mantra which is "personal responsibility", but they have no idea what they are talking about within a capitalist system.They have no idea that the whole notion of personal responsibility within the context of capitalism is a lie. Capitalism is set up to destroy, not create....at least if not tempered by other philosophies.
Counter to what I know, they think that wealth is the answer....when it is very plain to see that it is exactly what is making our system of government an absolute failure. They need only look at what we have to know that is true. But they won't....and that is where they make their mistake.
In response to Drew;
If 75% of the voters are interested in raising taxes in general or on the rich only, the politicians need to openly run on the fact that if you elect me I will raise your taxes.
They should win in a landslide!
When you see TB only in the post, I am locking in a post with a reply. Posts cannot be edited once replied too. TB has a habit of changing his posts after a debate.
You liberals like throwing around "WE the People" but what you really advocate is tyranny of the majority. As far as tax hikes for the rich I know most people have no clue who pays how much in federal income taxes. Considering the bottom 50% pay ZERO and are the group who constantly demand more assistance I would say this is an unfair system in the extreme.
Liberals are jealous of the Tea Party and Grover Norquist, they wish they had the same type of advocacy. All they have is the pathetic occupy movement and the very corrupt labor union activists.
When liberals lose an argument all they can do is smear and distort. Associating people they don't like with bad guy's. Creating intent of the founders from self serving, point missing lies.
gregorybald, exactly right, I would love to see that pledge!
It's all a laughable travesty and fraud. So what if "Catfood Commission II" has failed. The most ridiculous post here is the one suggesting ALL incumbents be replaced with whatever opponent. I thought we already tried that in 2010 and got a cadre of John Birch fascists sponsored by the Koch Brothers, who began pulling all the controls and safety devices out the airplane as soon as they got aboard. Some of them even squeezed onto that great emergency measure for curing deadlock, the Supercommittee, by bolting through the door like a dog with a full bladder. Then they raised their gnarly rear leg on the public trust. We've been hosed long enough! ...long enough to see through magic store illusions.
Here we have a one party Neoliberal Mafia running everything as rackets.
Kurt Weill and Bertolt Brecht already summed it up in their 3-penny Opera.
Catfood Commissions are just acts. Our debt crisis itself is a bustout by the Oligarch Mob. It would be a miracle if tax cuts for the speculative class were even allowed to expire in January. Even more of a cosmic epiphany if defense spending were cut by edict. I don't think anything will happen in Congress that could diminish the hegemony or income stream of our Lord Proprietors. They will heap austerity upon austerity until feudalism returns, if we don't stop them with People Power.
Teece, I'm embarrassed for you. I state my case without addressing the fascist loonies and I get by just fine, but you gotta punch the "faeces baby" (golem) the Kochites have put at the crossroads, animated by ventriloquism. These are not even real persons, but psyops caricatures, maybe only one operator with 5 or 10 monikers. I learned the hard way how fascists and covert agencies operate on the web, and you can too. State a good case and understand you have no control over paid propagandists. That was supposed to be the job of moderators.... but maybe no longer.
Et tu, Drew Kelly! If you wrestle with slop-jockeys their odor gets on you. Soon the "offal" is crying out from your soiled clothing that truth and justice stink.
(Hey now, isn't that the same excuse Mayors use to keep from dialogue with Occupy? I gotta go take a long hot bubble bath. Now might be a good time for our economy to take a "bubble bath" too.)
Pancake Rankin wrote: "State a good case"
I will let you know when I see one. Name calling and inappropriate labels is all you lefties have.
Capitalism is a religion, with all the same trappings. It has guilt, which is called risk. It has that personal responsibility nonsense which allows the oligarchs' to put down the people who have failed through no fault of their own. It has the irrationality of the market place and the mantra of "branding" as some sort of lunatic catch-phrase for speaking in tongues.
But it will never ever be able to provide for everyone. Never. It is perfectly designed to make sure that full employment is never realized. EVER.
Considering that we have carefully constructed our government around this, is it any wonder that everything is now failing. That is what you get when greed reigns supreme.
Pancake Rankin....
Facist loonies, I like that....but I think it's more "lickspittle of the corporate masters", or toadies....whichever is better?
The "work" of the supercommittee of 12 politicians pales in comparison to the burgeoning student movements across the country. Here are students who are willing to sacrifice themselves and their physical safety to call the public's attention to the way corporations are taking over the public university system. If only these 12 politicians were as responsive to the economic problems of their nation, if only they were willing to sacrifice their political ambitions for the greater good, then they would have gotten something done.
And yet, the fact that the supercommittee failed apparently means that they are deserving of a ridiculous amount of media attention, while this morning there is no mention of the fact that yesterday, at Baruch College, college students protesting tuition hikes while on-campus were beat with batons by campus police officers and then arrested by the NYPD.
Maybe the politicians aren't to blame if we and the media don't hold them up to a higher standard, the standard of community service and activism modeled by these public university students.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/arrests-in-tuition-protest-...
http://chronicle.com/article/At-Baruch-College-Tuition/129871/
Only 9% of Americans have any faith in the US congress. How low does your panel think that number can go especially with this most recent failure to compromise?
Clearly the Republicans oath to Grover Norquist and the 1% indicate the 1% are still WINNING!
First, let's just say that it was created by Congress so that Congress wouldn't take the heat when it failed - and doomed to failure from the start was guaranteed. The answer as to why the so-called 'super committe' failed is simple. And I don't want it to appear that I am taking 'sides', because that is not the purpose of this explanation. The Democrats were prepared to negotiate and they made this clear. The Republicans were not prepared to negotiate, and won't ever be, because of a certain Grover Norquist. He operates a shadowy money gathering operation financed by the ultra rich corporateers and has a huge cash reserve. He has made it known, in no uncertain terms, that if any Republican dares to mention raising the ultra rich's taxes that he will target them at the next election with massive amounts of attack ads and financing of opponents. Republicans know that their very existence rides on Norquist's approval.
There you go.