The Future of the Occupy Movement
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-11-16/future-occupy-movement
Occupy Wall Street activists vow protests will persist. Yesterday New York City police in riot gear evicted hundreds and razed the city of tents where some in the group had been living for close to two months. The Occupy Wall Street movement seeks to highlight income inequality and has inspired hundreds of similar protests around the country and the world. Most have been small and some have been marred by violence, but participants claim, despite evictions in New York and elsewhere, it’s an idea that will continue to gather momentum: Join us for a conversation on what the Occupy movement has accomplished and its future.
Guests
Jim Tankersley
reporter, National Journal
Michael Premo
participant, Occupy Wall Street
Legba Carrefour
participant, Occupy DC
Lawrence Lessig
professor of law at Harvard Law School and director of the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics at Harvard University
author of “Republic,Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress — and a Plan to Stop It”
Tyler Cowen
general director, Mercatus Center
professor of economics, George Mason University.
Comments
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The problem with the majority of people in this country is that they've been silent for too long. Americans had gotten used to a nice standard of living and few paid attention while the carpet was pulled out from underneath the working class! Thank God for the Occupy movement because maybe this country will begin conversing face to face again. That will make a difference.
Do not count on either political party in this, do not look at either one because they are both owned by Wall Street. And they don't want us to be able to figure out something without them.
If it didn't matter, then Wall Street and the establishment wouldn't be trying so hard to shut it down! They are afraid of what is happening and they should be.
Teece:
I really believe that most people in this country don't give a horses behind with the people at OWS.
One thinks of all those people at OWS and all the arrests that have been taken place as a bunch of anarchists who have nothing better to do but cause trouble.
I'm reminded of the scene in Dr. Zhivago when the protestors are singing outside of the rich folks restaurant. Suddenly everyone falls silent listening to the singing and Komarovsky breaks them up by stating "maybe they'll learn to sing in tune after the revolution".
I really do hope that this is the beginning of something, while you've made no secret about the fact that you really hope that it isn't.
On the one hand I will be merely disappointed, you on the other hand ....may someday be staring a the business end of a pitchfork.
The occupy movement is as vacuous as it seems, the American Idol and MTV real world generation has flowered into an insult upon every educational system we have. The parents of the children in the occupy movement are equally to blame, children raising children. What we have is a collection of social cripples, almost rans and damaged goods. People who are of no use to anyone and will certainly be a burden to the people who actually produce. We I am afraid are headed towards a bankrupt country morally and financially. Perhaps we deserve it.
TB
Monte:
On further reflection your statement about the usefulness of people...it has something of the ring of "final solution" -ism about it. Which is rather haunting as far as world history goes. I'm reminded of this quote:
“Since he is of no use anymore, there is no gain if he lives and no loss if he dies”~ Pol Pot.
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) released a report detailing special tax breaks for wealthy income earners that could give members of the supercommittee common ground for raising tax revenues. The Report found millionaires enjoy about $30 billion worth of “tax giveaways” and federal grants every year, almost twice NASA’s budget, the report notes.
“From tax write-offs for gambling losses, (Wall Street investments?) vacation homes (while others are loosing theirs!) and luxury yachts (simply indefensible) to subsidies for their ranches and estates, the government is subsidizing the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Multimillionaires are even receiving government checks for not working” Coburn said in a statemet Monday.
Occupy has every right to be in the streets and angry as hell. These people are not motivated so much by a sense of entitlement as they are by a sense of having no opportunity.
Teece,
Thanks for your thoughtful and well informed post. It stands in stark contrast to some other comments that I have read here. To hold those views you really have to go out of your way to avoid all the information sites out there that will tell you what is really going on in this country. The things the Corporate mainstream media don't want you to know.
I guess for many it feels safe, warm and cozy in the Fox News/MSNBC real news blackout cocoon. Unfortunately they are not in a proverbial warm cocoon, but they are frogs in that proverbial pot of water that is slowly being brought to a boil. The main stream media's job is to tell them all is fine and to distract them from the world around them which is increasing becoming more hostile to their very survival.
Occupy wall street are the people that have finally realized that the pot of water is getting ready to boil, and they are not going to quietly go down without fight.
Tom in NC
Tax write offs for providing capitol investments the very thing that creates jobs! The evil rich, right.
The ...(removed for profanity) in the occupy movement should be marching on D.C. , this is where the criminals are.
Did anyone see the 60 Minutes piece on Congresses insider trading? The biggest class warrior of all Nancy Pelosi has enriched herself very well at the expense of the people.
TB, I am going to have to start locking your posts in with replies, bait and switch. Your true MO is often revealed in your initial responses.
Attempts to belittle the Occupy participants draws attention away from serious issues that should be addressed. Would the panel please comment on the constitutional right of the protesters to peaceably assemble? Does the breakup of Occupy encampments infringe upon the first amendment? Is the banning of tents or sleeping bags at protest sites a qualification that is unconstitutional? It seems that recent actions to suppress the Occupy movement may be a slippery slope for eroding our first amendment rights.
It is not important nor salient to add to the derogatory comment stream concerning the OWS protestors. Call them anarchists, dirty, lazy, etc., but those are mostly unfounded and anecdotal name-calling tactics. In any group one can find unsavory individuals. What is noteworthy is that the movement exists, period. It is a canary in the coal mine. Whether you like or dislike OWS, use your head and realize that something has gone awry in America, and that we all need to accept that though the boat is large, it won't sink just a little bit at one end. The whole thing goes down with all hands aboard. Remember, all revolutions and changes start with the "rabble."
equalizer
Occupy Wall Street unsuccessfully tried to argue that tents were free speech. It is interesting that the establishment didn't agree with that argument but has no problem saying that money IS free speech.
So money the primary tool of the rich IS free speech, while a tent, the tool of the poor and working class is not. Think about that for a minute. Folks the game IS rigged...
If there is any clear message coming from the occupy movement at all it's GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER of corporations and the economy, and the REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. Both of these are UN-AMERICAN as can be. I for one appreciate freedom, supporters of the occupy movement whether they realize it or not do not.
Small news flash for you monte, companies hire people when there is a demand for their products. You can give them all the tax breaks you want but they are not going hire employees to produce things people aren't going to buy. Henry Ford realized this and dramatically increased the wages of his employees so they could buy the cars they made. This simple understanding is totally lost on our current batch of "titans of industry"
Large corporations are sitting on moutains of cash right now. They are NOT using it to hire people, they are using it to buy back their stock.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR201010...
U.S. companies buy back stock in droves as they hold record levels of cash
Large companies are in the business to make money. They are not in the business of caring about people, or countries, or creating jobs to be nice. Trust me I worked for one of the largest, and they told us that right to our faces.
How anyone could support the gross distortions of the economy that Wall Street is guilty of is beyond me. Despite conservative whining, we aren't here to defend anyone's power and privilege. We are here to bend this society to the benefit of the vast majority of ordinary, hard-working people, not the self-inflated hucksters who could care less who is hurt by their ventures.
Does anyone else imagine Larry Lessig's use of air quotes when he describes much of Wall Street's "wealth creation"?
I know I'm using them right know--and that's not easy to do while touch typing.
NC-TOm , You last comment completely contradicts itself, welcome to the occupy movement.
Teece and NC-TOm,
Again, your thoughtful and intelligent posts (in contrast to others) have taken the words right out of my mouth.
Speaking of "redistribution of wealth" - no, the fundamental concern is a fair distribution of opportunity, and that is supposedly a core American value.
Prof. Lessig, currently cut off from the discussion, is exactly right: the corruption is rampant starting with the bargain priced purchase of Congress.
Because most people have a poor grasp of numbers (I've randomly asked people, and most can't tell me how many thousands in a million or how many millions in a billion,) I resort to a tactic once given to me by an anthropology professor. "To help get a grasp on a large social problem, reduce the total population to 100." So, if one guy owned 40% of the tribe's wealth (like, 20 of the 50 huts we all lived in,) and he and 5 or 6 of his buddies owned over 40 of the huts, how would the other 99 or 95 of us feel about his/their true worth?
I am a baby boomer who has become totally disenchanted with the country I was raised in and served. This Occupy Wallstreet is refreshing to see, since we've become such sheep these last thirty years, but until the demonstrators learn to police their ranks and weed out these anarchists, they will never earn the respect of the real 99% that any movement needs to accomplish real-world goals. You don't galvanize participation with ordinary people when you are trashing their common properties and burning shops. Unless the Occupy Wallstreet wants to devolve into just another joke like the Tea Party, then time has come to start taking responsibility for our message.
monte wrote:
"The occupy movement is as vacuous as it seems, the American Idol and MTV real world generation has flowered into an insult upon every educational system we have. The parents of the children in the occupy movement are equally to blame, children raising children. What we have is a collection of social cripples, almost rans and damaged goods. People who are of no use to anyone and will certainly be a burden to the people who actually produce. We I am afraid are headed towards a bankrupt country morally and financially. Perhaps we deserve it."
Dead on
And TB, as for the Pol Pot quote, you are the one talking "final solution", not monte. Just because someone is useless does not mean he should be killed. That's just as inflamitory as you intended it to be. But it necessarily means he will be a burden to society, not a benefit.
I don't understand why there is so much confusion about what the OWS unifying message is: "ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations." (taken from the OWS website)
To get more specific or ask for a clear-cut set of demands would splinter a very large and inclusive group. The common chants, signs and marches revolve around the increasing phenomenon in this country in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and all demand change despite different angles we come to the movement from.
Moby Toad: That technique works and is exactly how I came to the conclusion that a great deal of the problem is in the Fed and their death grip on the creation of money. That's the true source of our national debt when we should be able to create money without creating debt. Debt is just rubber stamping the hoarding of wealth by the upper class.
To Alex: I believe and hope that OWS will evolve into a more focused and less boisterous movement, but I also know that you have to create a certain amount of ruckus just to get the ball rolling. Kinda like the original Boston Tea Party?
I support the intent of the OWS folks but we as a country have a democratic system that is the envy of the world. Have these people voted at all? Are they registered? Voting apathy in this country is ridiculous. Isn't there a way to work in the system now? I agree that the system is corrupt but it is that way because we allow it to be that way. All the money in the world in a campaign is worthless if the candidate does not get the votes. And the only people who can vote are people, not corporations.
WHY DOESN'T THE OWS MOVEMENT TARGET SPECIFIC CORPORATIONS WHICH ARE GUILTY OF PARTICIPATING IN THE ECONOMIC 9/11 PERPETRATED ON THE WORLD? A TARGETED APPROACH MAY CAUSE CORPORATIONS WHO ACTUALLY CALL MANY OF THE SHOTS IN THIS COUNTRY TO APPRECIATE SOCIAL CONTRACTS MORE SERIOUSLY.
Having to choose between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum is not a real choice.
When serious candidates only receive 98 sec to debate on major media formats while the other 'corporate candidates' receive 10min.......the option to vote becomes irrelevant!!
Revolution!
We need to remember that the corruption is rooted in GREED. Greed will always be there (that's the nature of human being, right?...) but it can either enabled or stifled. And it was enabled by deregulation (by the previous administration). Unfortunately, stifling greed can only be done by regulations!