Greece and the European Debt Crisis
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-11-03/greece-and-european-debt-crisis
European leaders are fed up. As world leaders gather for the G-20 economic summit in France, President Sarkozy had hoped the meeting would help boost the euro and showcase his leadership in Europe’s sovereign debt crisis. Then Greece made the surprise announcement it would put its rescue package to a popular vote. Now comes news that Europe may have slipped back into a recession with its highest unemployment levels since the euro was launched in 1999. France and Germany are demanding Greece declare whether it wants to stay with the euro or risk going it alone. The future of the eurozone – with or without Greece – and repercussions for the U.S. economy.
Guests
C. Fred Bergsten
director of the Peterson Institute for International Economics and author of "China's Rise."
Desmond Lachman
resident fellow, American Enterprise Institute.
David Wessel
economics editor, The Wall Street Journal; author "In Fed We Trust"
Comments
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My friend from Germany says the Germans are furious that they will have to bail out the Greeks. Germans, generally speaking are frugal and hard-working; Greeks, generally speaking are much, much less so. Many Greeks get to retire in their early 50s; most Germans retire in their mid 60s.
a very unfair situation!
Guests from the Peterson Institute, the American Enterprise Institute and the The Wall Street Journal? Hardly a broad spectrum of opinion.
And it's time NPR called a moratorium on giving air time to think tanks like the AEI. They are not the academic organizations they pretend to be, but front groups for big money; their "research" is designed to produce only the answers they want.
On the question of how the Greece default will affect us, it is still not spelled out, not clear. What exactly happens and how would it affect my family and the country at large? Give me an example. Thank you
mancuroc:
Make some suggestions on guests for this kind of forum. Perhaps Diana will hear your voice. On her running blog, I have seen her make comments to some individuals asking about information on her show. But then of course it could be one of Diana's assistant responding.
I think the Greek Prime Minister has in effect tried to get a referendum from the Greek people so as to reduce popular unrest. In other words
getting them to buy in to the solution.
I don't understand how payment on the Greek debt in the range of 50 - 70 cents on the dollar will be "devastating to the European banking system." Consumers lose much more than than on their purchases of automobiles; they also lose more than that on stock purchases...just look at how portfolio values have declined in 2001, 2003, and 2008. What about home values? Most people have lost on those investments over the last 3 years, too.
If we the people have to take severe haircuts on our investments why can't the banks taste the same medicine? They caused the problem with their unrestrained risk taking and excessive leveraging for the sake of their own bonuses!!
What effect will this crisis have on the collective fiscal policy of EU countries?
What would happen to Greece (economically) if they should hard default and are removed/leaves EU?
Am I alone in imagining a Greek Pilate washing his hands and casting the decision to the rabble?
Economic "austerity."
We are talking about workers and the people being financially squeezed so that the banks that made a "bet" when they purchased Greek debt can be paid off.
Squeezing the workers!
No wonder Occupy Wall Street has legs.
It seems like death taxes and the BANKS are the only sure things.
I agree. The banks (and their stockholders) are getting a pass while "the people" are being squeezed.
this comment is for the caller who asked about student debt and why Obama isn't doing much there. Earlier this year there was much discourse about for profit universities/colleges and how much more it costs to attend.
Many of the students enrolled hoping to have an in-demand career. Investigations revealed that some of these places used questionable practices to entice students to sign up for funds that were not fully disclosed to be loans, used pressure tactics to get admission commitments and later found graduation rates were dismal. These are some of the reasons these kids have such huge debts and can't pay it down. The career they were told would help them has opened up any opportunties.
Spot on Mancuroc, another example of pro-corporate bias on "public" radio. So this is what NPR means by independent journalism that brings us "all sides of an issue"?
well put Mancuroc. I'm new to this site so I diodn't notice the reply option. I replied to your post down below. I don't know why the conservatives want to cut "public" radio
s funding. WallST.and Madison ave get alot of free publicity from it, and the public is hardly ever represented on it.
Systemic flaws not addressed
The boom & bust of economies and the arc of civilization of thriving and collapse are the same phenomena, seen at different scales.
Systemic flaws make civilization neither sustainable nor just.
When natural resource wealth is shared equally, then changes in employment status will have less severe impacts on personal finances. When industries pay enough to take natural resources so that they have adequate incentive to not take too much (not more than what most people would say is acceptable), and when they pay similarly appropriate amounts to put pollution, the proceeds of those fees can be used to create a universal natural resource wealth stipend. This modest but more steady source of income would provide a buffer against the collapse of economies, since such income would protect people from the most extreme financial distress. Spending on basic needs would continue. The economy (essential sectors of it) will be insulated from the worst vicissitudes of the business cycle.
The fee proceeds, shared equally, would provide protection against collapse on the downside.
The existence of the fees would prevent overheating (of the economy or of civilization) on the upside, if fees are made to increase as demands on natural resources increase (so as to keep overall rates of taking of the resources within limits consistent with the will of the people).
Financial crises emerge (and real estate bubbles collapse) as the confidence that borrowers will be able to repay (or that future buyers will be willing to pay even more) becomes scarce.
Civilizations collapse when they over-exploit their natural resource bases & become unsustainable due to environmental degradation (natural resources become scarce).
Equal ownership of natural resource wealth would mean a sustainable and more just civilization.
Why no discussion of the systemic flaws, and their solution?
David Wessel did us a disservice when talking about Greece lying to get into the EU.
Greece did lie, and a very un-American, lawless, should be in jail, should be occupied, should have salt sowed into its ground, company with its hooks directly into the Administration aided, abetted, encouraged, planned, perpetrated, carried out, implemented, and profited off that lie.
For 30 points David, and the game, what was the name of that company!?
To expand on Oliver Crangle's point: Goldman Sachs with Greece is the equivalent of the bankers that pushed a loans on less-than-creditworthy home buyers in this country, and precipitated the current crisis. They knew that they would either make out from exorbitant interest income or from repossessing foreclosed properties. It takes two to make a bad debt, the lender and the borrower. All too often these days, the lenders intentionality fail to do due diligence and try to profit by it. As somebody wrote earlier, it's no wonder Occupy Wall Street is getting traction. As a member of the great formerly silent majority, I fully support the movement.
Greece will never pay back the debt. From a Greek point of view I don't see the point of austerity measures if the money saved goes straight to foreign banks. From a German point of view if the money goes straight to their banks, why give it to Greece first?
older civilization must remember difference between life and civilized life.
picking on grease... could not have fires(chips) without that stuff... personally scared to purchase hot grease but love those who do... if 'crisp'.
why a crime to provide health-care for citizens, time off for family and community, retirement at an age before consumption and preoccupation with dying? Not to mention education access and employment(oops just did sorry)?
when had money would gladly have GIVEN ALL if society returned the above. almost did USN anyway.
O C C U P Y
Often wondered why so many ill homeless. Or homeless. No longer a volunteer. Now in need. And contacted SS, SA, UW, HUD, churches, charities, etc. Now I know.
Only live contact for 'help' scams. vultures. cannibals. you in IT for(800 numbers referring to each other LMAO)???
same 'nice' sold home 1996. refinance from VA to Fannie. 'nice' 'tried to sell home. 'nice' bought at foreclosure auction 16 years later for half the original purchase price. 'nice' way to make a fortune bigger.
too weak to care 'nice'ly anymore.
Niall Ferguson of the Harvard business school refused to take the proto-racist line of Bo Jones this morning on "the Takeaway" with John Hockenberry. Ferguson, who usually glorifies the elite victors and the magic bullets of sharp practice didn't even have the guts to concur with the European Union debt relief plan. Obama is right now at the G-20 representing American creditors, not the American people. The Supercommittee is about to unleash a big Facudie that will make 90% of Americans feel more Greek than German. Worker productivity rises as our wages fall. The stock market celebrates this statistic. Stocks indirectly held by the majority are not under individual control. Making statements such as: Germans are frugal, Germans are big savers, Germans only retire when their privates fall off, is cruel and misleading when one considers how workers rights in Germany were making prosperity and high tech while Greece remained in turmoil after a CIA sponsored coup. Germans own far more of Volkswagen and have more say-so than any American auto workers ever had. The USA has suffered a coup by the 1% , but supplicating reactionaries are cheering the coup plotters. If these same types were in Syria they's be throwing their daughters at the Alawite elite. Always the whipped dogs crawl to their abusive masters. Give the Greeks a vote on this extortion and they'll reject it. They're not gonna sit in the basement with the X-box like so many unemployed student loan debtors. They inspired us to Occupy.
Think about what Pink Floyd has written when you are about to contribute blindly to a big charity. Most have more overhead than the Dept. of Defense.
Try helping a local displaced family directly. That's what I do.
Supposedly there's "all this help out there" until you need it yourself.
They may feed you tainted turkey two days a year but they can't see you on Nov. 4th, 2011. (for example)
Hey, we sent money to wealthy Japan after they busted a reactor, so why not text $10 to Greece?
Friday, June 11, 2010 03:14 PM ET
The Wage-Price Spiral Unwinds.
Dear Professor Reich:
Thank you for noticing that,"... the hourly wage of the typical American with a job continues to drop, adjusted for inflation".
However there is an additional factor in that the "Inflation" Corrections are biased by a CPI that heavily understates Inflation because of a series of attacks started by Reagan, expanded by Gingrich and which have not been acknowledged by the Government or any other institution.
These biases have made a mockery of wages and Social Security Benefits and the final indignity was the Social Security Commission Zeroing the COLA for 2010 and possibly 2011, in the face of soaring prices.
Social Security Annuitants and ordinary people who work for wages are being crushed.
Your casually noted point is also well taken,"A larger and larger share of total income went to people at the top". That fact combined with drastic tax cuts at the top has left much, much too much Capital chasing after few, too few Opportunities which explains the several Bubbles which bursting has wrought so much misery on our People.
(Cont)
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
(Cont)
The Following was posted on another Blog in 2007-
"WWII was followed by a huge increase in American labor's productivity that has never relented. To deal with any Luddite fears, we were promised much more liberal working conditions- at one time, a 3 or 4 day work week, European type vacations, early retirement and a life of moderate ease was considered possible. An end to 7 day 12 hour work until we drop dead in our harness like mine ponies and are dragged to the dump. We had attained a relative Utopia - affordable medical care, low inflation, low interest rates, earlier retirement, greater job safety, single income households, low taxes, low crime, disability pension if we were hurt, security for our kids if the Breadwinner was killed- a relative Utopia indeed. Since the 1970s though, the race has been to the bottom. Now we work longer hours, retirement being pushed off by the government with an eye to ending it completely. We are paid less, even by the Govts calculus, we are losing ground to inflation and the actuality is made worse by a CPI that is understated by about 2 per-cent per year (Compounded since 1981). People compensating for lower wages with debt- mind numbing credit card, mortgage and government debt- in an unstable state that any recession or falling Real Estate prices will unhinge. Squandering what we have in insane wars. Well, Im getting tired of typing, but will wind up with a comment for the guy who brags that we ought to bust our backs working Night and Day like the Indians do. Screw you Buddy, I only get one go-around and I want a life of some security, time to enjoy my family and should one of us take sick, reasonable medical care and hope that when my mind and body are finally spent, a few years in a rocking chair.
By mchaun | Mar 13, 2007 1:09:01 AM | Request Removal"
Regards,
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
SOYLENT GREEN !
ITs about NOT letting your neighbors go to waste...
SUPPORT Soylent Green (now in Meals Ready to Eat(MRE)) NEW chicken-like flavor of- er- FOR the masses(99%)
Show our veterans where to go- er- where they are wanted- veterans makeup a large proportion of Soylent- Green Industries(yes THAT GI) and not just as Scooper Loaders.
As you make your way thru the sGI process know that your service contribution is appreciated AND now lay back and allow US to 'serve you'... relax NOW isn't that nicer than being cold and hungry on the street?...
(IAW applicable federal laws not yet deregulated preferential treatment(ahead of the line) given to ANY veteran THANK YOU for the service(servings?) here is a made in elsewhere pin- please do not bring to the facility for intake purposes- can clog integrators).
Diane, You run a great show, but this one had a glaring lack of diversity in its guests. We can hear these three think tank creations speaking freely on on fox news.
Pink Floyd wrote:
SOYLENT GREEN !
ITs about NOT letting your neighbors go to waste...
(IAW applicable federal laws not yet deregulated preferential treatment(ahead of the line) given to ANY veteran THANK YOU for the service(servings?), but please remove any Titanium, Stainless or Fiberglass artificial limbs, plates, screws or rods in the arms, legs, or skull, glass eyes- can clog integrators).
November 3, 2011 - 8:38 pm
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
Grady Lee Howard wrote:
... The USA has suffered a coup by the 1% , but supplicating reactionaries are cheering the coup plotters. If these same types were in Syria they's be throwing their daughters at the Alawite elite. Always the whipped dogs crawl to their abusive masters.
November 3, 2011 - 5:24 pm
mchaun wrote:
Not all richly rewarded whores are directly richly rewarded. Many more whores, like ecgbert, hope that by sucking up to their Imperial Masters, parroting their silly slogans, condemning regulation, for example, they will be richly (for them) rewarded by being allowed to wait under the Master's banquet table with the Master's Mastiffs to grab whatever crumbs that fall from the Table.
...
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
September 15, 2011 - 8:46 pm
mchaun wrote:
Millenia of the Feudal System has caused the White American to evolve a Feudal Gene rendering Him a throughly innate, inborn, inbred Lackey. Look at the record, no indignity too humiliating from our de facto, if not Titled, aristocracy of the Bushes and their Jew and Anglican middle rank associates who are the real interface between the oppressors and the oppressed. These are the Journalists, Clergy, Generals, Bankers, cops, Legislators, Economists, Business Persons, Educators, the Gentry and lower Peers, that really keep the Machine humming and who are well rewarded for their Loyalty.
Blacks lack this Feudal Gene which explains their reluctance to accept the petty as well as monstrous atrocities we White Commoners must daily accept without protest.
Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com
June 23, 2011 - 5:08 pm
To suggest that the EU wold 'explode' if the euro ceases to be or is rejected by one or more countries that currently use it is preposterous nonsense...
For many decades previous to the adoption of the euro in 2000 by EU member nations, the EU and its predecessor- the EEC- existed and functioned just fine with member nations using their own, separate, currencies...
Following the adoption of the euro by most EU member countries in 2000-
- the lack of adherence to the EU's stability and growth pact by most EU member countries; along with
- profligate, short-sighted, transparently un-sustainable borrowing and spending policies...
are the main factors behind today's problems...
Why wouldn't a simple solution be:
devolve the EU politically, administratively and in bureaucratic structures ways to what it was around the time of the Nice treaty (before the introduction of the euro)...
and start again??
Once devolved to a Nice treaty type of status, EU member countries could 'start again' with discussions regarding potential VOLUNTARY fiscal and/or monetary union of EU member countries and what would be required for this in terms of the establishment of new EU structures and what would be required of EU member countries wishing to join such a monetary and/or fiscal union- in order to bring this about...
From a functional perspective* why couldn't EU member countries that did not not want to join a fiscally and monetarily amalgamated EU, remain members of the EU?.
Countries that wanted to join a fiscally and monetarily amalgamated EU could do so, provided that they met whatever conditions were established- via a new EU treaty- for this...
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada
* based upon the the EU's founding purposes: stopping continual wars, conflicts, persecution of minorities and improving democratic and legal structures...
To suggest that the EU wold 'explode' if the euro ceases to be or is rejected by one or more countries that currently use it is preposterous nonsense...
For many decades previous to the adoption of the euro in 2000 by EU member nations, the EU and its predecessor- the EEC- existed and functioned just fine with member nations using their own, separate, currencies...
Following the adoption of the euro by most EU member countries in 2000-
- the lack of adherence to the EU's stability and growth pact by most EU member countries; along with
- profligate, short-sighted, transparently un-sustainable borrowing and spending policies...
are the main factors behind today's problems...
Why wouldn't a simple solution be:
devolve the EU politically, administratively and in bureaucratic structures ways to what it was around the time of the Nice treaty (before the introduction of the euro)...
and start again??
Once devolved to a Nice treaty type of status, EU member countries could 'start again' with discussions regarding potential VOLUNTARY fiscal and/or monetary union of EU member countries and what would be required for this in terms of the establishment of new EU structures and what would be required of EU member countries wishing to join such a monetary and/or fiscal union- in order to bring this about...
From a functional perspective* why couldn't EU member countries that did not not want to join a fiscally and monetarily amalgamated EU, remain members of the EU?.
Countries that wanted to join a fiscally and monetarily amalgamated EU could do so, provided that they met whatever conditions were established- via a new EU treaty- for this...
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada
* based upon the the EU's founding purposes: stopping continual wars, conflicts, persecution of minorities and improving democratic and legal structures...
More common sense and less poorly acted dramatics need to be practised by EU member nations' politicians and bureaucrats when commenting on Greece's and the euro's difficulties...
There are no reasons why an EU that is stable, constructive, human-rights-upholding and economically fertile would not continue to function well, even if the euro was scrapped entirely and member nations regained much of their previous decision-making abilities over domestic monetary and fiscal policies....
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada