Why Occupy Wall Street is Now More Popular Than the Tea Party
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-10-26/why-occupy-wall-street-now-more-popular-tea-party
A new Washington Post-Pew Research Center poll has revealed that more people support the Occupy Wall Street movement than the Tea Party. The spark for the movement came from “Adbusters” – an anti-consumerism magazine based in Vancouver. It proposed an "occupation" of Wall Street on September 17, 2011. The idea caught fire. Since the first protest, “occupy” movements have sprung up in across the country from Seattle to El Paso,Texas. The movement has been accused of being a “mob” and a front for special interests. But progressive politicians are increasingly trying to harness the movement’s support. Join us to discuss the appeal of the movement and its impact on American politics.
Guests
Jim Tankersley
reporter, National Journal
Ken Vogel
chief investigative reporter, POLITICO
Jonathan Smucker
volunteer, Occupy Wall Street
Michele Pendergast
volunteer, Occupy San Francisco
Joshua
volunteer, Occupy Chicago
Corryn Freeman
volunteer, Occupy DC/K Street
Comments
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When the economy was on stronger footing several years ago Sixty Minutes did a piece on young people coming of age and entering the work force. Employers in need of employees found it necessary to duplicate the playpen mentality these young people were used to at home, no losers and only high praise for even the most modest achievement. Certainly these were not the kind of people you could expect hard work from. Commentary from the parents of these underachievers was one of envy at the acceptance of the needed codling, no surprise there.
Apparently the WW2 generation really grabbed onto the notion the purpose of the federal government was to nursemaid it's citizens. The following generations largely accepted this shift from personal responsibility to government dependency without question. The infantilization of the populace is now nearly completed and we see the outcome in these "occupy" protests. Parents of the occupiers and the occupiers themselves thrash out like spoiled children. The boob tube superficial thought processes that guide this movement should not be a surprise to anyone, and the substantial support for it also is of no surprise.
What many are missing is that this is not a purely ideological battle nor are some folks remotely interested in letting conservative minds dictate the terms of conflict. Sure, this may be merely a collective venting process that has no impact on dollars and cents in or on Wall Street. Yet part of the wisdom of protests is democracy in action: a government can allow such or respond with force; the latter will only strengthen the least favorable aspects of dissent.
The Tea Party never represented as many Americans as they would have liked, largely because after all of the yelling and poster-waving, the Tea Party only stood for a handful of conservative ideas not shared by most.
Wall Street stands as a symbol of unfettered, socially-tolerated greed against and with which the "98%" feels no power.
If we use this time to bury the hackneyed platitudes and instead examine what we mean by money, power, fairness, etc. we will come closer to a system built on deeper and broader value rather than furthering rampant narcissism and solipsism.
mburrier wrote: stated
"What many are missing is that this is not a purely ideological battle nor are some folks remotely interested in letting conservative minds dictate the terms of conflict. Sure, this may be merely a collective venting process that has no impact on dollars and cents in or on Wall Street. Yet part of the wisdom of protests is democracy in action: a government can allow such or respond with force; the latter will only strengthen the least favorable aspects of dissent.
The Tea Party never represented as many Americans as they would have liked, largely because after all of the yelling and poster-waving, the Tea Party only stood for a handful of conservative ideas not shared by most."
mburrier:
I do not think a handful of conservatives supporters could have elected 63 new members of Congress, not to mention all the new dominant Republican State Legislatures and Republican Governors in November of 2010.
Yes they could easily have done so because the corporations pull the strings on their media, them, and congress. They only succeed because they take the side of big money not because what they think or say is valuable to all of america. They have become the voice of the corporations, allowing corporate to walk over all of us.
The corporations have taken over the govt. through the Republicans and to some extent the Dems. and they do not give a hoot about protecting the citizens the way a true govt. should.
Corporate Greed is the reason for America failing the world.
We don't want the government to nursemaid.
perhaps you don't understand because you are not hurting enough.
The purpose of govt. is to protect it's citizens. To police the goings on of the nation. Police not just the citizens but the corporations and institutons. Make sure we all play nice. But the big wigs don't like being told what to do. It hurts their bottom line. So instead of breaking the law they just take control of it.
Go ahead face it, conservatives don't want govt. at all. Just let the world run riot. Just let them walk all over us. Steal or money and pollute our earth leave us all sick and get away with it. The idea of less govt. was started by corporations trying to get away with as much as they can. They don't care about America they are multinational. If we don't have any money left they will go elsewhere for it.
Careful about what you think america...careful of where your thoughts are coming from america, Careful what you ask for america...you might get it.
Oh yeah...Actually we already have...that's what got us into this economic mess to begin with. Shall we make it worse? A little less govt here, a little less govt. there. and we won't have a nation worth living in anymore or a planet able to sustain us.
“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes…. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong it’s reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." – ABRAHAM LINCOLN
Go OWS'ers!! Thanks for your courage, sacrifice, and fortitude.
(Sorry, Monte- I know I posted Lincoln's quote on "news Roundup" as well-
it just seems so appropriate to the subject at hand).
Banks are the fall guy for the economic issues we face. This issues will continue until we see the duplicity and hypocrisy of congress as part of the problem. Men like Dodd are central to the problem. They had the fiduciary responsibility to oversee these issues and all they did was to paper over the flaws because they benefitted from the expanding bobble. They also accepted money on a vast scale from the industry they were supposed to oversee. In another time and place this is called a bribe.
Question corporation haters? what do you propose we do to corporations to make them to your liking without destroying them. All the money they have would not even make a dent in our national dept. Taxing the rich into poverty would not pay for the federal governments deficit spending either.
Corporate greed, what nonsense. Government set the stage for the housing crisis through poverty programs to get the poor into houses they could not afford and by artificially keeping interest rates two low. The people themselves have exported jobs overseas for decades to get a better deal, yet the same people complain about exporting jobs. Corporations and banks should have been allowed to fail yet government again stepped in and bankrolled them. Were seeing the same thing now with student loans, housing and union jobs, Obama is using the government to buy votes for reelection at tax payer expense. I don't think most of you will ever get it, were broke! The federal government is out of control doing things it was never supposed to be doing in violation of the Constitution. The money democrats clamor for is stolen from future taxpayers, isn't it obvious to all that major austerity cuts are inevitable. The Tea Party recognizes this and wants to roll government back, Occupy cries for a government pacifier in the form of more government spending. The simple knowledge that federal and local government exist at the expense of the private sector is totally lost with the Occupy movement, and there obviously no understanding or concern of national dept and deficit spending either.
I wonder how a protest sign would read if it identified the true problem, the people themselves!
You really gotta ask yourself why a purported working stiff would come on this commentary defending banks and multi-national corporations and attacking all young people. This behavior proves our system is insane and is way overdue for some structural adjustment. The incomes of the top 1% have more than tripled in the last 30 years. The top 20% take in more than the 80% below them. Leno and Obama held court and laughed at our dilemma. Obama offered two schemes (for student debt and underwater mortgages) that mainly protect creditors and don't touch principle (the amount owed). Cain's fascist minions blew smoke at the camera after a tirade about how the unemployed and the poor should blame themselves, about a tax reform that punishes working class households and rewards their creditors.
Because wealth worship has superceded law and democracy we have no representative government, or any consumer protections, or any ability to maintain healthy productive communities. People aren't just frustrated: They're alarmed and outraged. We have steadily worsening injustices where 90% of people will fail no matter how capable they may be, no matter how hard they try. They call us consumers, not citizens. That means we have to endure anything the supply side dishes out. The old tricks don't work anymore. Some commentators here could not possibly be for real.
As the American public watched and paid for Wall street bankers socialize their losses and continue to privatize their profits and then watch Elizabeth Warren birth the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau only to be tossed off the accountability bus...pushed the public over the edge.
Do your guest think things would be different if the public had watched the very individuals that brought the US economy to the cliff held accountable...prosecuted? Would things be different if Elizabeth Warren would have been able to enforce through prosecutions based on her findings?
As part of the so-called 99 percent, this group and its spinoffs do NOT represent this liberal Democrat. These protests are both ridiculous and counterproductive. The demonstrators would do the most good by going home and doing something constructive.
I attended on tea party event in DC. As I walked through and talked with the crowd it was clear that the crowd some packing guns were made up of mostly over 40, white, males along with others but white males made up most of the crowd. Many were frustrated with spending mixed with "we want our country back" a real undercurrent of racism in what they were saying.
I attended one OWS event in downtown Dayton Ohio. The crowd was far more diverse. Now while there were young people who were not clear about why they were there. There were other young folks especially the organizers who were clearly there due to economic disparity.
I talked with a man who had retired from Cargill in Sydney Ohio several years ago. He kept asking why is his grown son making an hourly wage that he made 20 years ago. He also shared that young Cargill executives had raised their paychecks by 5% as they eliminated automatic cost of living increases for workers at Cargill.
I talked with a laid off GM worker who held a sign that said "Rep Boehner where are the jobs"
I talked with a 65 year old Vietnam Vet who had also been a union member and had worked at Chrysler he was very upset with the Wall Street bailout and the little to no interest that those bailed out had paid for using the American public's money
I talked with a laid off teacher who was working two minimum wage jobs to fill in her economic gaps. She was so upset with the double standards
kathleen: (Michael Stipe said it) "It's crazy what we could have had; crazy what we should have had. We need this; we need this!"
"Go up to Wallstreet with a sign in your hand.
Go up to Wallstreet with your mask on backwards...
We need this; we need this."
Let me go beyond the well-meaning crowd. I think it's too late to worry about jobs. I can see over the hill to the place where the concept of working is completely changed. We're gonna be falling all over ourselves helping one another out. Jobs are generally disappearing due to automation and improved technique and have been for a long time. Why should we make so much useless crap just so parasites can sell it ? The People have the power to feed and house ourselves if we got usury off our backs. Then we would have the problem of filling our leisure. I think people behave more normally after a disaster than they do under corporate capitalism. They revert to their true nature to assist one another and make the best of things.
OWS is the aftermath of disaster. When the police attack they are smashing the recovery. What if that happened in Turkey or Japan?
i think alot of problems could be solved in this country if we added one amendment to the constitution stating the obvious , that money does not equal speech.
to the attention of yours guests .... tired of hearing about this. Your guest has mentioned the white house several times, but fails to see...... Why not move the protest to the white house where the problem started? (Obama, Geithner) Or start their own party ? how naive they are. Can we get comments on this please ?
to the attention of yours guests .... tired of hearing about this. Your guest has mentioned the white house several times, but fails to see...... Why not move the protest to the white house where the problem started? (Obama, Geithner) Or start their own party ? how naive they are. Can we get comments on this please ?
Why is it so difficult for so many among the 1% to understand the validity of the protesters complaints about representation, taxation, and the lack of accountability for the current economy? Are they threatened? Are they reacting emotionally, angry that anyone would dare "take their money"? Sounds a little like kindergarten, doesn't it.
Its pretty simple really; our government does not represent the vast majority of us. However, we have not given up. We want a voice.
It should be noted that some of the people involved in the protests are refusing to register to vote, are refusing to vote, and are quitting their jobs to take part in this. They are also encouraged to walk out of school. All of these actions are counter productive; they are exactly what the people of wall street and the opposing government officials want!
Um don't you get it that the govt. was corrupt with corprateers long before this non affordable house schemes started. Yes, govt. set the stage (not entirely) but it set the stage because it was corrupted already with corprateers. No checks and balances, no control. No balance. Poverty protection was there in place when they took over, they corrupted the poverty protections to suit their goals. Don't you get it. You need to look deeper. Our Nation has been taken over from within. And it's people who do not see this, that has allowed them to continue to do so.
I agree Corporations and Banks should have been allowed to fail. Would have served them right. But at what expense to us. We would have gone down with them worse than we already have. There would have been bread lines and suicides and such like in the great depression.
only this time it would have been global. GLOBAL.
Are you really willing to let all of that humanity suffer and die for a point, for an ideology? Where is your humanity man?
Are you really corporate through and through. Where do you draw the line? Our suffering truely lies in the hands of people who speak the language of corporations. It is your fault as much as theirs. Don't you get it?
the Govt would work just fine with checks and balances.
Poverty protection would work fine with checks and balances.
The corportations would work just fine with checks and balances.
The people would work just fine with checks and balances.
In the middle sir, in the middle.
Yes we are broak now. Most economists agree we need to fix the problem from all sides, not just one. The corporations really have the conservatives on strings. Think man where do your thoughts come from.
Fox News? Or Relatives? where do they get there ideas from. Fox news?
Maybe you get your ideas influenced by people of wealth and brains. People who have a vested intrest in corporations. Do they really have all of america at heart or just themselves?
We are tired of being screwed. We want a government that is responsive to the majority and not just to a small elite minority. Early on we called ourselves the other 99%.
One of the guests keeps defending the popularity of the Tea Party movement when compared to OWS. Do they believe the recent polls that display the distrust of elected officials not follow the massive influx of Tea Party members elected into congress?
I wonder what productive things liberal democrat hollyrob who is supposedly 19 is doing there at home. Are you working for your creditors hollyrob, paying student loans? Obama don't care one whit about you, hollyrob. Charlie Sheen cares as much. Oprah cares as much. Marko Rubio cares as much. Herman Cain wants you to order a pizza. Mitt Romney sent you a flier from Staples. Printer cartridges have gone up due to ink speculation.
I'd like to hear the guests' opinions on the difference between the press coverage on OWS and the press coverage on tea party activites - also the difference in police and security measures relating to the two.
We want jobs. We want the war to end. We want the big corrupt banks broken up or at least allowed to fail. We want limits on corporate power or at least the withdrawal of their excessive privilege.
Might the "Occupy" groups bring more effective pressure to bear if they focused more specifically on the persons and entities most responsible for the problems the "Occupy" folks are contesting: take their demonstrations to the Supreme Court or to the five members that have designated big corporations as "persons," to Grover Norquist, and so on.
Grady....do not think we are coming back. The greedy corporate / manufacturing executives moved union paying wage jobs out of Dayton Ohio starting back in the late 60's down south for cheaper wages, etc. Then these same fat cats moved these jobs to Mexico, China etc during the 80's etc. Busted the unions which created the middle class. During the 50's 35% of the American working public belonged to unions. Less than 10% now.
Both parties sold the American union worker down the pike. Lack of substantive tariffs, off shore holdings, tax loopholes took those executive pay scale up to criminal levels. These people were not US patriots. Money is their God and Greedism is their religion
There is no way that these jobs are coming back.
Dear Monte;
Please tell us how you have accepted personal responsibility for your own life?
We should be demanding that money be taken out of politics. I feel that public financing would bring a balance to our political process.
Erin: To be part of the solution you have to quit being part of the problem. I don't think you understand productivity in the larger substantive sense. You're just afraid you'll still be there working when others are out partying.
If your job is needed and meaningful why worry? But I suspect it is not.
Living in a corporate hive is always miserable. Saw off your chains.