Jeremy Rifkin: "The Third Industrial Revolution"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-09-27/jeremy-rifkin-third-industrial-revolution
An economist explains how internet technology and renewable energy are merging to change the way we live and work.
Guests
Jeremy Rifkin
president of the Foundation on Economic Trends,adviser to the European Union and author of "The Hydrogen Economy," "The Biotech Century" and "The End of Work."
Related Items
Author Extra: Jeremy Rifkin Answers Audience Questions
Q: The book title refers to "lateral power." What does this mean?
A: Lateral power means side-to-side power. On the Internet, millions of people share information in vast social networks, and the power of coming together side by side dwarfs the kind of centralized, top-down power that’s traditional. Converging the internet with renewable energies will allow millions of people to generate their own green electricity in their homes offices and factories and then share it across a vast energy internet, just like they now create their own information and share it online with millions of others.
Q: How could this third industrial revolution transform labor and politics?
A: Because the third industrial revolution is about lateral power, it favors small and medium-sized businesses coming together in networks to create new economic opportunities. The third industrial revolution will create thousands of new businesses and millions of new jobs. Manufacturing renewable energies, converting buildings to micro power plants, storing renewable energies in the form of hydrogen across the infrastructure, transforming the electricity grid and power and transmission lines into an energy internet, and revolutionizing the transport and logistics sector.
Q: While I'm a long-time fan of Mr. Rifkin's, he's mistaken about the feed-in tariff. The power generated by these qualified PV systems does not belong to the building/roof owner. One hundred percent of the power goes directly onto the grid. That power becomes a commodity to sell on the open market. The system may be owned by third parties that lease the factory roof; the electric power has long-term value because the cost to generate that power does not increase. Utility power does. This allows long-term investments in distributed generated power to increase in value, exactly what investors are seeking. - From Jim
A: PV systems can be owned by the local owner, which is often the case. Local owners of buildings can also lease out their infrastructure to third parties, as well. Increasingly, small and medium businesses and home owners in Europe are choosing the former course, and pooling their interests by creating producer and consumer green electricity cooperatives, in order to advance early adoption with significant scale up. In countries where there are feed-in tariffs, banks are not advancing green loans so that home owners and businesses can convert their buildings to micro power-plants. The savings in electricity is used to pay back the loans. After the loan is paid back, the electricity is virtually free for the owner.
Q: In Europe there is a larger tradition of government leadership in public investment. Here in the USA, in tradition and more particularly with the current political/budget climate, government-led solutions are problematic. We favor private-sector solutions. How are we going to lead from the private sector? Where are the niches where these technologies will develop on their own, without government subsidies or other intervention? Where are the opportunities for entrepreneurs and investors in the USA who believe in your thesis? - From Charles
A: Both the first and second industrial revolution in the U.S. required an ongoing relationship between local state and federal government, industry, and communities. It’s impossible to lay down a five- pillar infrastructure for a new industrial revolution without this kind of partnership because the five-pillar infrastructure requires comprehensive planning, which brings into the picture local governments as well as local businesses and communities.
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Robert Bryce, author of Power Hungry: The Myths of “Green” Energy and the Real Fuels of the Future, was keynote speaker at the National Petroleum Refiners Association in March, and spoke on the need for power density as the future. Jeremy Rifkin does a stellar job of breaking through this paradigm shift in distributed power generation. Clearly, Rifkin's view of the future is not only the obvious sustainable solution, but also addresses Bryce's challenges in an elegant way.
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Thank you Diane! It was so inspiring to hear Jeremy Rifkin's vision. Vision and a REAL plan is what a leader should have, right? I am an independent and I would vote for someone like Jeremy Rifkin for president based on a platform to implement this plan (I know quite a bit about alternative energy and I believe his plan would work.) Obama has NO plan that I see. Nothing ever works perfectly and it is always harder to bring a big project to fruition than one can ever imagine... but what other choice does humanity have? Things have been getting worse and worse and worse all around the globe. The course we are on is a collision course with scarcity. Conversely, imagine actually doing this approach... wow! If Obama had only done this plan before he spent all his "political capital" on health care, millions of citizens would have been back to work; would have been able to keep their homes out of bank possession; and would have even also been able to afford their own medications that big pharm hopes they all have to need. Thanks again Diane for your courage! May you always be surrounded by love from your audience.
Enjoyed very much listening to Mr. Rifkin's interveiw on Diane Rehm. I do want to note that regarding Feed In Tariffs- Ontario and Vermont are not the only N. American locations. Please check out Hawaii, where there are Tier 1, 2 and soon to be T3 Tariffs on the islands of Oahu, Maui/Lanai and Hawaii. In addition, California has FIT, and Florida is in the midst or now has a FIT program.
Your kidding me, this radical is considered to be the vision of the future. He talks about my washing machine turn it's self on and off depending on the load on the electrical grid. Sorry i'm not signing up for this boys world. My friends in Switzerland really can't stand this man for what he's doing to europe. He is not a friend, he's as corrupt as the rest of the politicians of the world. He has his bank account that he's trying to fill it, and your going to pay for it, oh are you ever. Oh i'm sorry the electric is out today, pay more money and we can turn it on for you. That's what's coming with this man's grid. I read some people on here said oh he needs to be the President, after the joke we have now you want to sign his crook up, i don't think so. I will do everything in my power to work against this man on every front i see him in. I don't want big brother breathing down my neck anymore than is right now. I prefer Freedom to slavery, this man is the slave owner. Mark my word. Diana's interview with this man scared me to death.
In the answer, one of the sentences reads, "In countries where there are feed-in tariffs, banks are not advancing green loans so that home owners and businesses can convert their buildings to micro power-plants."
I think there is a typo as "not" should read "now", otherwise the sentence does not make sense.
I just created a petition to be sent to President Obama to adopt Jeremy Rifkin's 5 Pillars. Please sign and share if you agree! https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/job-growth-comprehensive-energy-policythird-industrial-revolution/6gZrYwdg
Jeremy Rifkin says that there is no way 4000 reactors will be built. While this is true, he does not adequately explain why. I understand there are time constraints, but this is why.
The cost would be about $11 billion each reactor (if they average 1300 megawatts each). 4000 of these $11B projects would cost about $44 trillion. The world spends about $4 trillion a year right now on energy.
It is projected that the 4000 reactors would only supply 20% of the worlds energy needs. If you spread out that 44 trillion over 30 years (a typical way to spread out capitalization), and add in the interest, profit, taxes, etc., you apply a 14% per year capitalization rate.
This 14% times 44 trillion equals $6 trillion per year, just to boost the nuclear share from the current 6% nuclear share to 20%. Just to boost this to 20%, our economic outlay would go up from $4 trillion worldwide per year to $10 trillion. See the website www.SafeEnergyAnalyst.org for more information on these energy costs.
There is just no way the world could afford such a high energy expense.
The Mt. Vernon Unitarian Church in Alexandria, Va. is hosting a sustainable/green energy and conservation fair on Nov. 5 from 9:30AM-12:30PM. This church just recently finished installing 110 solar PV panels and a geothermal heat pump system for its main building. Various businesses, government officials and related non-profits will be in attendance to share information about these systems and financing options. For more information: http://www.mvuc.org/netzero
As much as I appreciate Mr. Rifkin's points, the way forward is much simpler than the German model and can address deficit, jobs, and environment all at once. Investment and incentives by the Federal government until now has been a case of financing the utility companies to raise our utility bills. The USA requires little new technology, in fact the Model-T is the best example of exactly what is needed. Make it affordable for every household and you have a market that can drive down manufacturing, installation and servicing costs. We need wind and solar for homes, small business and schools. Small units between 1 and 100kW for mass production.
A National Energy Policy which requires energy independence is a foundation for Congress to pass a Federally Guaranteed Loan Plan for Residential, Small Business and Communities Wind/Solar/Renewable Energy Projects. Leveraging on a Federally mandated Renewable Energy Portfolio every bank and home lender must maintain, energy consumers could leverage investment capital using historical energy usage and an energy resource assessment of their properties. Couple home energy audits with measurements of wind, solar, and geothermal resources a bottom-line figure will emerge of the cost of self-sufficiency and potential for sale back to the grid.
Qualify the loan condition with a "Made in America" clause this would be the single largest investment America has ever made in itself.
Hey, Rifkin is back, proving that there are second acts in politics. Since he is now embracing green technology as a saviour, I guess he is no longer the Luddite he was in the 80's.
Although he made it sound like Germany is well on track to change to renewables, the truth is a little more complicated. Since the German government has commited to closing down nuclear power plants this year, it has gone from being a net exporter of 14 terawatt hours of energy last year, to a net importer of 4 terawatt hours this year. The Czechs and French are only too happy to sell energy to Germany. But, that energy will generated by........wait for it.......... nuclear power plants in those countries.
Not that there is anything wrong with importing energy. But, doing it, and then making claims that Germany and Rifkin have made about increasing renewable sources strikes me as, well, dishonest.
Mr. Rifkin,
Your plan is fundamentally flawed by design because of your lack of understanding in how energy markets work in the US compared to Europe. In Europe retail electricity [power flowing in your home] is separate from wholesale electricity [power flowing out of your home] while in the US it is combined on the same wire. Where the problem comes is that in the US retail power is regulated by the state and wholesale power is regulated by the federal government.
The main reason for the drop in the price of PV solar isn't the Chinese, but the glut of excess PV solar panels in Europe due to a backlash by the European public against government [taxpayer funded] subsidies like we are starting see here in the US. As the recent Solyndra debacle illustrates we don't want the government picking winners or losers based on "crony capitalism". This is what results when the government tries to disguise itself as a hedge fund or investment banker.
Also I believe you are going the wrong way with the vertically integrated SmartGrid since within the next ten years the existing transmission grid will be obsolete. I know this to be true because of my invention which will decentralize electric power generation worldwide and eliminate the need for fossil fuel combustion for ever... I recently filed a Provisional Patent with the USPTO for an apparatus that produces energy from gravity induction produced by a spinning disk. A summary of my Patent Pending US 61/465,823 is shown here:
http://www.calfree.com/DescriptionMassSpinValvepatentsummary+figures.pdf
Rifkin's Third Industrial Revolution is just another pipe dream,just like his
"HYDROGEN ECONOMY".In his book,Hydrogen Economy,rifkin predicted that
by the end of the decade(2010),car companies would be mass producing fuel cell cars powered by hydrogen.Well,here it is three years past.So where are all these fuel cell cars?The main problem is the billions and billions of dollars that would be needed to implement the hydrogen infastructure for these cars.It would cost about the same for rifkin's TIR.
Hydrogen storage systems don't come cheap and neither would be replacing
the existing power grid.And of course,we would be the ones getting stuck
paying for it.I'm all for renewable energy and using hydrogen as an alternate fuel,but Rifkin's energy plan has to be adjusted so that people
actually save money.It has to put money into people's pockets instead of the
other way around.