Shrinking Financial Aid and College Admissions
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-09-22/shrinking-financial-aid-and-college-admissions
Finding a way to pay for college is becoming harder at a time when earning a degree is essential to finding a good-paying job. Lower- and middle-class families are especially feeling the squeeze. The purchasing power of Pell grants is down and subsidies for student loans are being cut. Faced with decreased state funding and the pressure to raise their profiles, colleges are fundamentally changing their admissions processes. More enrollment officers say they are seeking out students who can foot the whole bill – some of whom have lower scores than needier applicants. Guest host, Steve Roberts and his guests discuss the implications of shrinking financial aid and college admissions.
Guests
Nina Marks
president of Collegiate Directions Inc.; principal of Marks Education.
Kim Clark
senior writer for "Money" magazine.
Brian Fitzgerald
CEO of Business Higher Education Forum
Victor Sanchez
president of U. S. Student Association. He is a recent graduate of the University of California, Santa Cruz.
Comments
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No one ever talks abut use of Adjunct professors and unfair work conditions. These are people who got all those degrees and work for next to noghing. Before schools build fancy sport facilities, they should pay the teachers living wage.
Can you address this, please.
Thank you.
I am about to graduate in December from a Bachelor's program in Economics. i would like to attend Law School, but I feel that I will either have to financial aide or will have to do a part-time program. The current costs of law school and education in general is increasingly making further education unreachable for many middle class Americans.
Don't burden yourselves with huge loans the repayment of which will limit your future career choices!
I don't read anything from the Heritage Foundation. I wouldn't even give it the credit that one would use when reading a National Inquirer article. Another Koch brother funded think tank.
These speakers need to look to a serious overhaul of the American Educational System. HB1s and federal funding are NOT the answer. So much funding, so many degrees, so many over educated people, our problem is not that we don’t have highly educated Americans; our problem is that jobs are outsourced, jobs have CHANGED and jobs are not there. GUESS WHAT…our educational system has NOT kept up with its partner, the job market, but has served to make profit for employees, stock holders and research…it is out of touch with its environment and that is why it isn’t working. Get the jobs back home, hire these people that ALREADY have degrees and all you educational people really need to get together to brainstorm to adapt to our current era of the IT revolution and the rapid change it brings. Be leaders, be innovators, get up off your complacent seats and problem solve us into the future, you are archaic and behind times.
My daughter is a science professor at an engineering college at a midwestern university. From her experience and her reading, she is learning that universities today spend an enormous amount of money on the administration, which has become bloated. The university has plenty of money for the administration and "party planners" but shrinking budgets for grants to provide their scientists and engineers with research money to support their publication pressures and to provide bright students with grants and scholarships. If I were a parent knowing that I was paying for non-academic pursuits, I would be furious.
monte-
"The term class warfare was used exclusively by the Republicans until President Obama's response to their claim. Don't try to lay that on the Democrats"
""Please give me an example of republicans using class warfare as blatantly as democrats.""
You've made this too easy Monte:
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/140644523/what-are-the-origins-of-the-term...
Lilian Welch, I have seen this with adjunct professors, it is wrong. How can we bring back integrity to the educational system, perhaps by valuing education and not using it for other purposes. It has been prostituted as so many other things, it has been degraded. Too many people now a days are willing to just sit back and watch it all fall away in the shadows of alternative agendas. A country with quality standard of living is not maintained as a status quo, but fought for every day, influences subtle and overt are continually present if we are not vigilant, we lose what we are with the blink of an eye. I know the educational system that was in the past; therefore I speak out to get it back because IT WORKED !!!
rici: Let me summarize your last argument: The commentators on the Diane Rehm Show are extremely class conscious and wary of criticizing the system from which they benefit. That is why they fear any restructuring that could benefit most people. Today (time will tell) seems to be the first day of the second segment of a double-dip recession within a long term generalized Depression for working Americans. This happened on purpose and is on-going, just like 9/11.
The big secret is that the primary advantage of
a "better" college is rubbing skin with people who have better connections and more money. Second secret: Studying hard may benefit the poorer intelligent student but not if they seek the political truth and gain critical thinking skills. It is hard to hide that inner light from your master when you know too much.
Paying out tuition income to support football and other circuses is very much like the "starving the beast" tactic toward the Federal government. (I have no need of a Coach or Gucci purse because I lack the requisite wardrobe and figure. This doesn't stop most zombies. Education works the same way: High learning without the social status is a garish mismatch.)
JLJM, yes this is true also, Administration is bloated, and quality teachers are not valued, poor teachers closely connected and protected by a powerful administration are kept. Yes, in cases research is not happening that should be but I have seen way to many instances where corporations have engulfed and consumed universities and colleges. In some cases corporations should be doing their own research, they are abusing the system. I have heard too many engineers complain about this phenomenon. The system supports the monstrously powerful and neglects the startups and the newbies. It is intolerable, it cripples American development. We need to make the relationship universities have with ALL of their community’s developers more equitable and not beneficial just to the powerful.
I agree with the discussion about the US becoming a third world country. I teach high school and I see what is happening in our education system as pure class warfare. There is a dumming down of our public school students through the hoop jumping schools are required to teach in the guise of higher standards. This class warfare is being continued in our higher education system through higher tuition, books and housing costs for students.
Monte wrote:
"Warren Buffet and his friends are not helping anyone in their high minded efforts to tax the rich. In the end their billions will be just thrown away along with everyone else's money making the government even bigger and more demanding of everyone. These successful business men in every other aspect of their investment lives would recoil in disgust if corporations they invest in were run like the government is. I think this breed of ultra rich is suffering from quite simply a guilty conscience, they do not believe they deserve their fantastic wealth and this is their misguided way of giving it back."
There is no such thing as a self-made man in America. I believe Elizabeth Warren said it best the other day:
“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.
Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”
But I know that this will fall on deaf ears. No let me correct that, ears fully blocked!
I see some commenters wondered why the cost of higher education has risen that much. They cite the compensation packages for senior academic officers like presidents and chancellors. The reason for the astronomical pay packages of such people may be that they are highly successful fund raisers. At least that was the justification for Gordon Gee's package totaling roughly three million dollar at Vanderbilt University (lucrative corporate board memberships like that with Massey Coal included). Gordon Gee helped the university raise several billion dollars. Make no mistake, however, the average college teacher does not earn anywhere near that sum, and the high earners commonly must support their salaries with government research grants to an extensive degree.
I see two major reasons for the rising cost of higher education. At public schools, the states have ceased the necessary support because of the precarious budget situation they find themselves in, leaving the schools little choice, but increase tuitions and fees. At private schools, the fantastic returns of endowment investments in the years before the financial crisis and the facility of obtaining financing tempted institutions to burden themselves with expensive expansion projects. In the current economy, these institutions encounter difficulties of raising the liquidity needed to fulfill their financial obligations stemming from these projects.
Read more about universities and the financial crisis here:
http://brainmindinst.blogspot.com/2008/12/financial-crisis-higher-educat...
Pancake, the only thing I am wary of is losing the quality that makes this the country so many want to come to. I don’t like Gucci purses, I like maintaining integrity for the masses. I don’t know that even the most powerful are capable of permanently manipulating a nation, existence is too volatile, if they do so it is out of a personal perversion, not to achieve an impossible and unrealistic goal. My favorite quote about those that put themselves above others: “Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” A simple but truthful children’s poem that shows how you cannot leave your people behind, for long before you destroy yourself. In this I know that things are cyclical and self healing, time will bring the pendulum to balance once again through the laws of nature. I simply speak out because it is the right thing to do and I value those who have fought for the rights I enjoy today. In all, yes there is horrible class warfare but much, much more is going on than this. American does not seem to be governed by Americans anymore, but some entity that is oblivious to our values, and while the “elite” have always sought to carve out their privilege, I think today we are also at risk from foreign influences who want to erode our freedoms, values, rights, liberties and quality with hidden agendas. I look to the nation to go forward, not backwards, look to restructuring to maintain strength, not some archaic destructive status quo.
I work with 35 low-income, high school seniors in a scholarship program to get them set on higher education. Our cconcern is the lack of hope and information as it relates to them and the very notion that they too can go to college.
I believe that they can and that we will find the funding, but THEY need to believe this too, or I will lose them.
We will lose them.
Teece Bowman wrote:The term class warfare was used exclusively by the Republicans until President Obama's response to their claim. Don't try to lay that on the Democrats"
""Please give me an example of republicans using class warfare as blatantly as democrats.""
You've made this too easy Monte:"
No No NO! Republicans respond an defend themselves against "class warfare" they do not participate in it or create it or push it, the democrats do.
Try again Teece, your link only speaks to the defense against the democratic parties use of class warfare. Were not talking about who uses the "words" class warfare but who uses actual class warfare in practice.
Teece Bowman wrote: There is no such thing as a self-made man in America. I believe Elizabeth Warren said it best the other day:
“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.
Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”
But I know that this will fall on deaf ears. No let me correct that, ears fully blocked!
This is pure garbage, EVERYTHING Elizabeth Warren says that came because of the efforts of the government would not have even existed without the private sector paying the government to do it in the first place. There is no government without the private sector. She has it totally backwards and knows it, more class warfare.
Wow, the mentally ill think social justice is class warfare. I wish some of these nutjobs would try and negotiate a living wage and reasonable benefits for themselves with the US Chamber of Commerce (a big old capitalist union). By the way, when they are licking up to the Bosses (as they do in their oft repeated and irrational posts) prostitution and contract killing will be disallowed as offerings on their part in the negotiation. In their case whoring is not a victimless crime because it degrades the conditions under which others labor.
rici: My intention was not to flog you with a handbag. I have a doctorate myself (now useless for employment). The fashion analogy I awkwardly presented meant to suggest that the big universities accessorize lavishly when their underclothing is soiled and their educational rags are in tatters. I thought you'd laugh about Duke and Yale being 60ish tubbies patrolling the mall in their stretch pants and tent tops with TV jewelry and imported footwear. Such expenditures "starve the beast" of universal education. That's what I intended to convey. I agree with your observations.
Forget Mass. Senator, Liz Warren. Run for President.
I had a question...Many colleges now say their application process is "need blind," including a lot of state schools. Supposedly, the people who accept or reject applications don't know their financial status. Is this true? I've wondered why we have to submit financial information before the application if this is the case.
Pancake, not awkward at all but understood and appreciated; besides I am not easily “flogged”. Likewise I don’t want people to think I want funding to go away for education, I want quality education for all, education with a purpose and without waste because that is when you know the system is functioning as it should. Many in my family were in education, I was, it IS the key to our future but you are right it is a mess. I hate seeing kids babysat for in elementary and high school because our cultural standards, our professional standards have slipped. I do hate hearing engineers complain about universities sucking up to only big corporations and brushing aside “the creativity and innovation that lies in the belly of the average American.” Educational funding should not be a source of income for someone, but a means to an end; it isn’t any more and yes, the educational rags are in tatters as it job creation, corporate or governmental.
I am a student and have a great student job with the Federal government (they are not hiring permanent positions and only are using students and contracting now due to the hiring freeze). However, the only way to keep my job is continuing in school. I am near graduation and will lose my job if I graduate, so now I am needing to go to graduate school to keep my job and go into huge debt.
I have a house payment to meet plus normal expenses. My husband has limited work since being laid off. I have only started this job after being laid off two years ago. We are struggling to get back to "normal" but afraid since we now need to go into debt further just to keep my job.
What is the answer to older people who are reinventing themselves after layoffs and not able to refinance their home?
Monte I don't need to try again, you are in a distinct minority on this response site. I suggest that if you want to find agreement, or better yet, accolades then you would be much better off calling in to the Rush Limbaugh program where they extoll this kind of garbage on a daily basis.
The one thing that no one ever mentions which makes the most sense is that we can adopt an American solution. Basically, all Americans agree to serve civil or military service in return receive FREE 4 years of higher learning education. I've started this new grass root campaign and am looking for support. www.facebook.com/feded5 and soon the website www.feded5.com. Why are we even discussing debt due to education? My initiative makes sense if we all band together as a nation to demand it. Why not donate 2 years to the well being of the nation by doing civil or military service and in return our nation provides us with a free 4 year higher learning education. Smarter Americans make a Wealthier America. It’s already being done with the military GI Bill, Veteran’s Vocational Rehabilitation, etc. Of the billions devoted to free education for a few, let’s extend that to free education for all.
I know that some universities and colleges will no longer exist, but some will. For those that want to pay for this education and go to Harvard or Yale, that option may still be available. Why should higher learning only be available for the few that can afford it? Train doctors, nurses, engineers, scientist in America instead of surfing other country websites for foreign students. I have a plan, and its already paid for. Instead of building bridges and roads to nowhere, America can start to build the 5 Federal Educational Institutes that will lead America to somewhere. That somewhere is economic stability and greatness.
Help make FedEd5 a reality. Join me on twitter FedEd5_usa or facebook.com/FedEd5 to read more about this effort. I am willing to answer any and all questions related to this initiative.
I did not listen to the entire show, but was almost offended by the view of the guests that the USA should be hiring highly qualified people from oversees...I understand immigration, I am a legal immigrant myself...but why is it acceptable for a powerful country to rob smaller countries from their highly qualified professionals, so the US can have the benefit of their knowledge and abilities...and it is very unlikely that this knowledge and benefit will not be shared with the rest of the world.
Great show. May pass it on to my alma mater where Administrator there, Davd Kelly had a Great piece about how Furman intends to weather this storm with integrity for long term sustainability.
Intend to send link of this discussion to him as well as person of influence with difference making juco here in NE Alabama.
My husband played by the 'rules'. He enlisted in the Navy for six years; saw the use of computers on naval ships & went to technical school for computer programming in the 1970s; wanted to work as a computer programmer in the financial sector & finished college with a business degree while working full-time to pay for his college degree; and eventually designed large software systems for a major financial investment bank (his design is still being used in mutual funds trading).
After 15 years this 'too big to fail' bank made a poor investment deal and let go 10% of their staff to make up for their losses to justify big bonuses for the same investment bankers who made the bad investments. The bank turned around and sent their IT work off-shore and received tax breaks for doing so. These same big corporations/investment banks pay big money to insure that 'their people' are elected and 'their people' write the tax code that taxes their 'investment income' as capital gains at 15% and provide their companies with 'tax credits' for off-shoring jobs. Now, these same companies aren't happy with reducing job benefits for their own staff or hiring consultants to avoid paying benefit, they are paying politicians to destroy decent working conditions and salaries in the 'public sector' and convincing Americans that the nation's fiscal problems are a result of greedy public sector employees and unions. A few years ago, your federal job would have been a permanent one instead of a temp position. It's time for Americans to wake up and realize that they have been conned by the Koch Brothers and others of their extreme conservative thinking. But, they've managed to con enough people into believing that they're the victims when they're really the perpetrators.
JSawyer wrote
"The added benefit of an educated population is that, in the long run, it boosts all incomes. It is a pity to see that being reduced"
Then why are something like 500,000 recent college graduates busing tables? huh.
"Teece Bowman wrote
You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.
Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”
But I know that this will fall on deaf ears. No let me correct that, ears fully blocked"
Thank goodness. Sound like something coming from The Communist Manifesto.