America Weighs in on Washington
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-08-01/america-weighs-washington
Congress held the nation in a state of anxiety for weeks as lawmakers battled over whether to raise the debt ceiling. Yesterday congressional leaders agreed to the outlines of a plan. It calls for cutting more than $2 trillion in federal spending over a decade. It would establish a new congressional committee on deficit reduction. And it would raise the debt ceiling in two steps. A vote on the measure is expected today, but uncertainty still surrounds its passage. Today Diane wants to hear your thoughts on what's going on in Washington. We'll have a brief update on the deal from NPR's Washington editor, then we'll open the phones.
Guests
Ron Elving
Washington editor for NPR.
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The "10 Planks" of the Communist Manifesto
By Karl Marx
#1 Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
#2 A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
#3 Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
#4 Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
#5 Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
#6 Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
#7 Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
#8 Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
#9 Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
#10 Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.
Hard to see much difference in what is happening here in the United States in 2011 and what Karl Marx laid out in 1848.
Great Program on Meet The Press. Did anybody see it and what are your comments?
Wow...that's absolutely right. There's no private property anymore. Inheritance doesn't exist. There are no private banks...no private transportation. All industry is run by the state. The division of labor is completely equal among all citizens. Thank goodness there are no classes anymore...no rich and poor. Yup...just like Marx said.
Idiot.
mbunn wrote: "idiot".
We are a hell of a lot closer to this than the original U.S. Constitution. Sorry your so disappointed we have not achieved in completion the goals of communism. But rest assured your man Obama is on it.
So monte recommends returning to pre-1848 conditions and ideologies. No surprises there. As an admitted racist and a classist-sexist who worships the ultra-rich (as indicated by repeated statements) he is not yet ready to deal with slavery, women's rights or the cruelties corporately controlled employment in multinational enterprises.
Marx was not some kind of terrorist or sociopath but a humane philosopher and the son of a lawyer. His radicalism consisted of newspaper articles and conferencing with thinkers and skilled tradesmen. He had been traumatized as a youth by seeing his father's indigent clients executed and severely punished for poaching unharvested crops and downed firewood. In the Manifesto of 1848 is where he predicts that if the majority of people are severely deprived and oppressed that they will inevitable rise up and overthrow those who are hoarding society's wealth. Marx's warnings were good medicine for Germany where worker protections and even universal health insurance were in place in the late 19th Century. Humane compromises brought Germany into the modern era. It fell backward after losing WWI over colonialist competition and was punitively penalized by international financiers much as debtor nations are today. Germans became irrational once they began to lose human rights and benefits, and some supported the devious propagandistic Nazis who were bankrolled partially by American investors. (Investors who tried a coup against Roosevelt.)
The path monte and the T-party advocate is similar to the Nazi recipe (scapegoating, misinformation, violence and intimidation). But in their minds maybe that is how we must correct for the mistake of generalized security and prosperity, which deprive the top dogs of their sadistic due. These underdogs have trouble enjoying their poorly paid insecure jobs, financed vehicles and gadgets unless they think "unworthy ones" (ethnic minorities, and their political opponents)will be deprived of the same goods and opportunities.
Because we do not live in 1848 when most Americans were farmers we must be careful about equitable distribution, because we are dependent on complex systems and interdependent with a variety of people. Rugged individualism is now a sickness because under present conditions it is psychopathic. (It is the protesters in Israel and Syria who are desperate for some sanity.)
monte, Thanks for reminding us that property rights reforms and wealth caps were already being considered 163 years ago.
To me, "The Compromise" seems uncertain and scary. From what I can gather it consists of an agreement to vote on a balanced budget amendment that cannot pass and the appointment of a "Super Committee" to allocate cuts. Markets may feel more certainty but if you are a Medicaid or Medicare or Social Security recipient or a student depending on federal grants or loans, or even military personnel in the field this is a very precarious situation.
Likewise for federal employees, federal contractors, suppliers and service providers; and for those depending upon federal services and emergency disaster assistance. Cuts create no jobs but usher in Depression. Ending the tax cuts for the wealthy, upping and enforcing a fair corporate tax and judicious trimming of the security state and the military would have provided the needed revenue. Then we could have added a jobs program and incentives for hiring. But that probably won't happen because all 2 1/2 parties represent the Oligarchy. I shudder to think what will happen next. The wealthy financialized class that benefits disproportionately from this imbalanced system needs to pay up.
May I remind everyone that the Constitution of 1789 is 58 years more antiquated than the Communist Manifesto. It was a grab for bond money and war bonuses, and a protection of slavery adopted 222 years ago, before the steam engine or germ theory. And that is why "original intent" is koo-koo-4-cocoapuffs. That alone is sufficient grounds to impeach certain Supreme Court Justices.
I find it odd that there was no visible Tea Party opposition to the Bush Administration's out of control spending. Only after a popular, black man becomes president, does this vile party rear its ugly head. We still have a house vote to go..Grandma's wondering if she's going to become homeless and the troops want to know if they're going to get paid. Instead of 911 hijackers, we've now got the Tea Party Terrorist. TPT
Again the Oligarchs have won.
They have manipulated the FED (see the 16 trillion dollar audit) and taken almost all of our money, but they are addicted to greed and must have it all, so soon they will destroy social security so they can take that money and feed their hunger.
Soon we will witness a repeat of history, because the world has been here before (1939-1945). History teaches us the grand lesson that this is how the Oligarchs always end up satisfying their lust for power.
And we are not alone because the Oligarchs are forcing austerity all over the Western world. The same group of Banksters who advised governments in Iceland and Ireland and Spain and Greece to make foolish investments in that load of cow dung we now know as worthless mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps are the same Banksters who demand that the citizens of those countries must now be punished .
Paul Krugman tried to teach us.
Naomi Klein tried to warn us.
John Perkins tried to school us.
We were lulled to sleep by “American Idol “and “True Blood” and “So You Think You Can Dance” and while we were asleep they stole our country. They have taken our democracy and used the Supreme Court (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission) to turn it into an irrelevant joke.
So now we are awake but the nightmare is just beginning. If we are wise we will see the Oligarchs for who they really are.
We will learn that "1984" is in the near future not in the past and that the "NETWORK" news is just a propaganda tool for the Oligarchs.
Do yourself a favor, rent the movies and see what they have in store for us.
WAKE UP MY FELLOW PEONS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. DON'T LET THEM DO THIS TO US.
REMEMBER SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE.
'Maltese Falcon wrote:
I find it odd that there was no visible Tea Party opposition to the Bush Administration's out of control spending. Only after a popular, black man becomes president, does this vile party rear its ugly head. We still have a house vote to go..Grandma's wondering if she's going to become homeless and the troops want to know if they're going to get paid. Instead of 911 hijackers, we've now got the Tea Party Terrorist. TPT'
Hey Malt:
Was there even a Teaparty in Bush's era or a Tea party politician in congress from 2001 to 2008? I do not recall.
The usual mantra is that we should slash spending so we don't burden our grandchildren with the large debt. Good idea to cut spending reasonably, but if we truly don't want to burden our grandchildren, the Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire for ALL income levels and exemptions should be seriously curtailed. -- Peggy, St. Louis
FYI:
The "tea party" as a recognized political force formed in early 2009. Initially various local (urban based) conservative gatherings, when they started to get media support (disproportionate, some believe) they came to the attention of the Koch Brothers who have supplied significant funding and organizational support to form the "movement" as a political force.
This answers the questions about "where were they during the Bush years"..since they didn't exist as an organized group.
Predominately white, male, over 45, above average income and highly conservative: both socially and fiscally, the tea party success came mostly from organization during primaries which skewed the election results.
Oddly enough, they are not classic conservatives, but in some ways, radical conservatives.
Often expressing dissatisfaction with the way the consitution has been applied, my personal experience when attending the first DC Tea Party rally on the mall was that most of them could not identify the part of the constitution that they beleived was being abused. Simultanteously, while decrying socialism, they also did not want medicare or Social security to be curtailed.
My takeaway from the rally was that this group of people are being manipulated by other forces - and while very vocal - are not clear on the very issues about which they feel passionate.
"Was there even a Teaparty in Bush's era or a Tea party politician in congress from 2001 to 2008? I do not recall."
There was not. But there were MANY of us Conservatives that knew that Bush and the Republican party in Congress were blowing it with respect to spending. When Obama doubled down on the spending, that was sufficient catalyst to form the Tea party.
Grady Howard wrote:
"Marx was not some kind of terrorist or sociopath but a humane philosopher and the son of a lawyer...."
Unfortunately, his statist philosophy has been an abject failure every time it has been tried.
"The path monte and the T-party advocate is similar to the Nazi recipe "
I know that is a popular point of view with far-left liberal progressives, unfortunately it is a weak attempt to rewrite history, if not a bald-faced lie. Actually, Hitler was a statist - as are progressive liberals. Let's break your other accusations down, shall we?
"scapegoating"
a la, "everything is Bush's fault"?
"misinformation"
Where to begin? "stimulus will keep unemployment below 8%", "we have to pass the bill to see what's in it", the list goes on ...
"violence and intimidation"
Can you say New Black Panthers at the polls. Name ONE incident of violence from the Tea Party that was not a Democrat plant. Must be DOCUMENTED or shut your pie hole.
(continued)
You know, you've brought up an interesting topic though, because I watched a History channel program on the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich just yesterday. Fascinating. What occurred to me is, that in the big picture, Hitler's plan was little more than a big Ponzi scheme - with a twist perhaps. His statist policies failed, failed, failed, so he had to keep invading and plundering country after country to support it. Started with the Jews in his own country, then Austria, Poland, Russia (BIG mistake), France and Great Britain. The Ponzi scheme is the tool of the progressive in government - keep taking from the haves to prop up your failing schemes. Perhaps that's where FDR got the idea for Social Security - the biggest Ponzi scheme of all in this country.
meangreen wrote:
"Great Program on Meet The Press. Did anybody see it and what are your comments?"
Did anyone hear David Plough on NPR this morning. He said, (and this is a near exact quote), "we need tax reform, the tax structure in this country is unfair ... it sould be more progressive".
More progressive???!!! At present 50% of citizens pay NO taxes! What does he want that number to be? 75%? Yeah ... THAT's the ticket! How about we just confiscate the wealth of the top 25% of income earners to pay for the rest?! That sounds fair, doesn't it? Oh wait, now ... that's going to include everyone of our current Congress Critters (and Mr. Plough as well), so maybe we better rethink it!
"my personal experience when attending the first DC Tea Party rally on the mall "
Liberals - KING of the annecdote.
Hey Monique, the attempt to identify the Tea Party as radical, and or astro turf, and or ignorant, has pretty much fallen by the wayside in MSM. Perhaps you didn't get the memo.
Tea Party and the rise of true Constitutional Conservatism is a force to be reconned with in this country. I can't WAIT for November 2012!
So they are topped-out entrepreneurial business people from traditional male dominated households, authoritarian and mostly religious. They usually support war violence against people of other races without question. They are on the front line of exploiting low-waged unbenefitted predominately female employees in franchised service industries and pyramid schemes. They envy and admire corporate executives and ruthless self-made oligarchs. The are sadistic in their mindset believing that only persons like themselves are worthy of success. For them enjoyment is conditional upon the suffering of others. They want government to accommodate their needs to the exclusion of everyone else. You will not see them refuse entitlements on principle but they want stipends to be taken from the elderly, disabled and children. When broken and inducted into the bowels of Social Darwinism they protest that they are exceptional and that their poverty and powerlessness are a mistake. Even as they complain and threaten they accuse people disturbed by their immaturity of being whiners. Then they claim to be persecuted.
hey monte-
Concentration of wealth is the opposite of the manifesto. It is at its highest point in 80 years.
Your complaint about inheritance - under the now repealed estate tax laws you still got to keep at least 45% of what you had so a billionaire could leave about $500 million to his heirs, a tad bit higher than no inheritance. The much quoted "losing of the family farm" due to estate taxes has been proved to be false. No example of that has been found. In fact, a family farm would get 15 years to pay the tax.
Concentration of banks is due to the lack of oversight of our government, not the reverse. It's about to allow an unconscionable decrease in the number of communication providers. Try to imagine your cell phone bill five years from now when there's only AT&T and Verizon. If the government hadn't broken up AT&T in the 1980s you'd be paying about $4 a minute for phone service and you wouldn't have to worry about a cell phone bill because they wouldn't be hee in the US.
Even a homeless wino pays excise taxes.
Grady Lee Howard:
"So they are topped-out entrepreneurial business people from traditional male dominated households, authoritarian and mostly religious. They usually support war violence against people of other races without question. "
So now I have to ask myself, Self, why did you treat any of GLH's posts as serious?"
ecgberht
Only about 10% of the population paid income tax when it was instituted.
And I'm tired of hearing the double standard that Social Security and Medicare tax payments don't count as taxes when coming up with the 50% don't pay tax, but counting it when it's convenient in the deficit context. At the minimum, medicare is an income tax on the working. There's no pretense that it's an insurance program. It's paid by every worker. The rich that can live on "unearned income" or "passive income" and do not currently pay this tax. This changes a couple of years from now for those making over $250K. Social Security is technically a different issue since its a stand alone program. However, the current Congress wants to use cuts to the program to reduce the deficit so in that context you have to count it as an income tax.
Marx not alone in disfavor of inherited wealth.
With Thomas Jefferson taking the lead in the Virginia legislature in 1777, every Revolutionary state government abolished the laws of primogeniture and entail that had served to perpetuate the concentration of inherited property. Jefferson cited Adam Smith, the hero of free market capitalists everywhere, as the source of his conviction that (as Smith wrote, and Jefferson closely echoed in his own words), "A power to dispose of estates for ever is manifestly absurd. The earth and the fulness of it belongs to every generation, and the preceding one can have no right to bind it up from posterity. Such extension of property is quite unnatural." Smith said: "There is no point more difficult to account for than the right we conceive men to have to dispose of their goods after death."
Read more: http://budiansky.blogspot.com/2010/10/adam-smith-thomas-jefferson-and-ot...
Even stalwart members of the latter-day Republican Party, the representatives of business and inherited wealth, often emphatically embraced these tenets of economic equality in a democracy. I've mentioned Herbert Hoover's disdain for the "idle rich" and his strong support for breaking up large fortunes. Theodore Roosevelt, who was the first president to propose a steeply graduated tax on inheritances, was another: he declared that the transmission of large wealth to young men "does not do them any real service and is of great and genuine detriment to the community at large.''
Read more: http://budiansky.blogspot.com/2010/10/adam-smith-thomas-jefferson-and-ot...
If the compromise on tax reform and/or raising taxes is pushed into next year, an election year, will Obama fight to raise taxes on the rich and hope enough middle class voters will re-elect him for making corporations and the rich pay their fair share?
I fear the GOP will continue to wage it's battle against the poor and middle class and use nonsense terms like "job killing tax increases" (which have been shown to be just plain wrong) to scare the American public into supporting candidates and policies that only help the rich continue to get richer and take services away from those who are most dependent upon them.
I am a die-hard Democrat, but Obama has just about lost my next vote. In hindsight, I wonder how many Democrats are realizing that Hillary would have taken a few of these GOP folks off at the knees and played the political game with more and better effect?
Maggie in Fort Worth
If the the Bush tax cuts had not been passed in the beginning and the government had not had to deficit spend to cover the lose of revenue where would the deficit be now?
How much of the current deficit is due to the war in Iraq?
If the the Bush tax cuts had not been passed in the beginning and the government had not had to deficit spend to cover the lose of revenue where would the deficit be now?
How much of the current deficit is due to the war in Iraq?
This deal is no good if it doesn't eliminate Congress' voting on increases in the debt limit ever again, on money they already authorized.
We desperately need Congressional Reform in this country to allow us to address our many problems. Filibusters, holds, the failure to pass budgets on time, are just a few examples.
WOW!!! I am appalled at Congress. Politics has won out over the business of the American people. We need a recall vote and have all of them replaced. Republicans and Tea Party members hi-jacked the US and World economies. I would not be surprised to see all countries pull back from buying US debt because we have just guaranteed there will be a part II to this debate. Thank you, Congress, for the further diminished of the US global reputation. I do respect the efforts of the President to broker a deal although I feel the deal presented this morning is going to cause more job losses without some type of revenue increases from the 1% that do not create jobs but take our taxpayer non-the-less.
Isn't the tea party heavily funded by the Koch Brothers who have a vested interest in government for the coprorations/wealthy, of the corporations/wealthy, and by the corporations/wealthy or as W. called them, the haves and the have mores (his base)?
Also, job creators, really - a dozen years of Bush tax cuts - where are the jobs? Gotta give 'em credit, these folks know how to frame the debate and mainstream journalists tend to just let the misinformation fester.
All of you that are for higher taxes; there's nothing stopping you from sending your excess income to the IRS.
Oh, that's right - "Higher taxes for thee, but not for me."
Hypocrites. The whole lot of ya.