Osama bin Laden's Death: What it Means for the U.S. and the Region
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-05-04/osama-bin-ladens-death-what-it-means-us-and-region
Osama bin Laden’s death has been hailed as a triumph for the United States, its intelligence operations, its military, and its president. But it also raises many questions. As new details of bin Laden’s death emerge, there are deepening suspicions in Washington over what Pakistan’s government knew. White House counter-terrorism adviser John Brennan said it was inconceivable that bin Laden didn’t have a support system. There are also new questions about the future of al-Qaida and who will lead it. And from critics of the war in Afghanistan, the death of al-Qaida’s leader has renewed calls to withdraw troops. What bin Laden’s death in Pakistan means for the region, the U.S. and global terrorism.
Guests
Michael Scheuer
former CIA analyst who headed the agency's Osama bin Laden unit from 1996 to 1999; author of the book "Osama bin Laden"
Michael Hirsh
chief correspondent, National Journal magazine; author of "Capital Offense: How Washington's Wise Men Turned America's Future Over to Wall Street."
Col. Douglas Macgregor
U.S. Army-Retired, decorated combat veteran, executive vice president of Burke-Macgregor Group, LLC, and author of "Warrior's Rage"
Comments
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I hope that now Americans can
(i) remember that we are the world's strongest and richest nation, and
(ii) will stop letting the fear mongers spread their poison, and
(iii) will live again our national anthem:
"the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
I think it is becoming clear that the universal American rejoice with this event is both sides perceive vindication. The right feels a renewed sense of justification their efforts were worthwhile the left with Obama at the helm seem reassured their extending every doctrine and policy of the Bush administration was the right thing to do. Where does this leave the American people? Right where they were Sunday May 1/2011, wars without end and freedoms under assault. We might have killed O.B.L. but he won the war.
Bush decided that OBL and Al Qaeda should be declared war on and the USA must use the full military footprint in Afganistan and Iraq to solve the problem.
Very little debate was had at the time. The USA insisted on a huge public display and WAR served that need and suited Bush as well. ( I am a war time president!)
John Kerry argued in his campaign that these terrorists should be treated as criminals and law enforcement techniques would be the proper and winning strategy for stopping these terrorists... all be it the military would be called into action as needed.
Would your guests agree that OBL's and all of the other terrorists that have been killed prove the point made by Kerry. Law enforcement not warfare was the winning strategy?
Second follow up.
Does the choice of Petraeus at CIA indicate that Obama will continue this strategy world wide?
"rjw-progressive wrote:
I hope that now Americans can
(i) remember that we are the world's strongest and richest nation, and
(ii) will stop letting the fear mongers spread their poison, and
(iii) will live again our national anthem:
"the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
I would assume when referring to the fear mongers you were talking about other Islamics and jihardists that want to destroy our great country.
I am all for that. They want to be with Allah and their 72 virgins in Paradise, we can sure send them there.
I lament the stranglehold that militarism has on my country.
I had hoped we could begin to follow international law, but the only law we're interested in is "might makes right". If China sent a commando team to kill someone it didn't like in the U.S., oh would we have a problem with that.
Hasn't anyone learned anything from the Israel/Palestine conflict? Does targeted assassination ever accomplish anything other than more death and destruction? Do Americans really think we can kill our way to peace?
Some people are saying we should have taken Osama bin Laden alive so he could stand trial. We don't have the courage to try the one's we have now, how could we have tried him? If we left him in Gitmo with the others, he would have become a rallying point.
Tom Rizzo wrote:
"I had hoped we could begin to follow international law"
"If China sent a commando team to kill someone it didn't like in the U.S"
Two points;
1 - "international law" did not make this a great nation.
2 - OBL was not "someone we didn't like". He masterminded the murder of 3000 Americans because he hated our way of life. When we murder 3000 Chinese citizens out of hatred, come back and talk to us about equivalency.
Regarding the photos... they should only be shown to the congress. They would be the witnesses of the fact that Bin Ladin was actually killed.
The great and powerful USofA pwnd by Pakistan. Oh we be bad. USA! USA! USA! USyeahwhatever
Why doesn't our government or the media admit that Osama bin laden was trained as a CIA operative and that it was CiA that created Al Qaida ?
Micheal Scheuer..... I have read the 9/11 Commissions report, conclusions and recommendations. In the report they conclude many of the same things that I have heard you say that many people in that part of the world are angry with the US due to US support for dictators in the region, US support for Israel no matter what they do and US military bases on their lands to protect US access to oil.
I am not advocating violence in any way shape or form but.....Micheal do you think we would have seen the Arab spring without OBL's and his kill teams attack on the US?
A question for Micheal Scheuer.
Micheal you have written about the reasons that Osama Bin Laden and his kill team and many other Muslims are angry with the US. US support for dictators in the region, US support for Israel no matter what they do, and US military bases on their land to protect access to oil. Do any of those reasons for anger towards the US go away because of Osamas death?
I am not advocating violence in any way but please tell me what the difference is between Pakistan "sheltering" OBL and the Obama administration, the US justice system and our congress "sheltering" Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. They have all committed crimes against humanity. The difference is that Bush and his war team killed more innocent people than OBL and have not been held accountable
I am astonished at the ease with which everyone is just swallowing everything and anything the administration puts out on this event, and just excuses any and all lies about the details! Surely George Bush would be hung out to dry from the beginning story, never mind after the subsequent divulging of the lie factor.
In addition, the photos of everyone watching the whole sordid invasion like it was an episode of "24" on TV, shows the disconnect of the many people making decisions to continue with murders and wars that will never dirty their hands nor harm their minds and bodies
ecgberht: How many innocent people have our drones and misdirected bombs killed? Just "collateral damage", eh?
Queen Noor, the King of Jordan, former Cia analyst Ray McGovern, Kathleen and Bill Christison, former weapons inspector Scott Ritter, former President Jimmy Carter, as well as former head of the CIA's Bin Laden uni and many otherst have expressed that the reasons for the anger and hatred towards the US as well as the attacks on the US are not because people hate our lifestyles but because of US support for dictators in that part of the world, US support for Israel no matter what they do and US military bases on their land to protect our access to oil. These reasons fo anger towards the US are also brought up in the 9/11 commission report
The US had been ignoring most of these issues for decades.
I am not advocating violence in any way shape or form...but does Micheal Scheuer think that the Arab Spring would have taken place without Al Quedas attack on the US?
I am offended by the last remark that the Arabs somehow missed the modern era! In case we have all forgotten, the Ottoman Empire, lasting until the First World War and its predecessor, the Islamic Empire, was leading the world in medical, science, and mathematical knowledge while Europe was suffering through medieval times and the Middle Ages.
The situation that emerged of dictators is not due to some issue related to the "culture" of the Arabs. It is a direct result of colonialism and imperialism, similar to the situation in Africa. It was the colonial powers that divided the people of the Arab world, segmenting tribes and countries. Additionally, U.S. influence and its support for dictators have forced the youth and innovation of the Arab world down for decades now.
Isn't it really the backward mentality of the most powerful countries, to keep the peoples of the world under their influence and control, partially as part of an effort to protect US national interests and resources, that has really lead to this?
I am offended by the last remark that the Arabs somehow missed the modern era! In case we have all forgotten, the Ottoman Empire, lasting until the First World War and its predecessor, the Islamic Empire, was leading the world in medical, science, and mathematical knowledge while Europe was suffering through medieval times and the Middle Ages.
The situation that emerged of dictators is not due to some issue related to the "culture" of the Arabs. It is a direct result of colonialism and imperialism, similar to the situation in Africa. It was the colonial powers that divided the people of the Arab world, segmenting tribes and countries. Additionally, U.S. influence and its support for dictators have forced the youth and innovation of the Arab world down for decades now.
Isn't it really the backward mentality of the most powerful countries, to keep the peoples of the world under their influence and control, partially as part of an effort to protect US national interests and resources, that has really lead to this?
Micheal Scheuer how do people in that part of the world look at the fact that those who created dessiminated and cherry picked intelligence to lie the US into Iraq and the hundreds of thousands dead, injured and millions dsiplaced not being held accountable for those crimes against humanity while Osama Bin Laden has been held accountable for his crimes against humanity How do they look at the Obama administration, our justice system and our congress "sheltering" these war criminals? Does this infuriate Muslims?
To the conspiracy theorists I say that if Osama is alive let him come forth or ask his wife.
To the caller, I heard Saudi Arabia was offered the body and refused.
Is it not true that the governments of the Middle East use the US in some form or fashion to do there dirty work in agreement that they can be critical of our actions.
Osama Bin Laden was part of killing 3000 Americans. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith etc are very much part of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's. President Obama is responsible for killing innocent people in Afghanistan, Pakistan with US drones. Micheal Scheuer do Muslims in that part think that the US has different rules for US war crimes than for Muslims war crimes?
Why wasn't Bin Laden given a trial in the world court before being killed?
I am forgetting who said it, but the comment that the Arabic world did not go through a Renaissance, i feel shows how our culture forgets non-Western world history. For a while it was, in fact, the Middle East that was the seat of knowledge. Universities in Iran held some of the best libraries and best thinkers of the day. At the time, the West was fighting plague and each other. In fact, we owe the Arabic for major advances in science and mathematics. Let's all read our 9th grade history books and remember that the West wasn't the only culture to go through a Renaissance.
Tom Rizzo asked:
"ecgberht: How many innocent people have our drones and misdirected bombs killed? Just "collateral damage", eh?"
What does that have to do with anything either of us wrote about targeted assassinations? ... eh?
Some people have questioned him being shot unarmed. The people who lost there lives on 09/11 were unarmed...
The photos should only be shown to the Congress, they can be eyewitnesses and let the rest of the world tha facts of Bin Ladin's death.
Is it true that the ISI greatly inflates the casualty figures of "collateral damage" - i.e. count a lot more civilian dead than actually died? If so, why hasn't the MSM pointed this out to us when they report casualty figures?
With everyone buried in 24 hours it's hard to know.
Always a pleasure to hear Col Macgregor shed light on these issues. As he knows many of us tried to get the military to change and adopt a focus on the importance of good intelligence and the use of SOF forces. But scale is critical and the importance of limited ends can not be emphasized enough. The key question to examine is why we embarked on two wars requiring occupation forces with massive costs and risks in an attempt to achieve unlimited ends. How we fight and why we fight will determine the military we need. Col James Callard, USAF (RET), former professor of national security strategy, National War College.
Justice will be done when the same standards of justice and accountability that applied to Osama Bin Ladens crimes against humanity apply to Bush administration officials who have committed crimes against humanity. Trials would suffice. The whole world is watching and waiting for justice.
I can't believe the anti-Israeli sentiment voiced by one of the guests. It is ridiculous to spout that our armed services has received more help from anyother country in the middle east than from Israel.