Eric Felten: "Loyalty: The Vexing Virtue"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-04-28/eric-felten-loyalty-vexing-virtue
Eric Felten
Tom Wolff
Characters of loyalty and betrayal are at the core of great stories that move us: Huck Finn, Brutus, and Judas. Many consider loyalty as essential to every relationship of our lives. It provides the bonds of love, family, and friendship. Loyalty can also be burdened with complications and conflicts. It forces us to choose who and what counts in our lives – from siding with one friend over another to deciding whether or not to stray in a marriage. It also compels us to face conflicting claims of fidelity to country, employers, and even ourselves. Diane and her guest explore the rewards and challenges of loyalty.
Guests
Eric Felten
writes the culture column, "Postmodern Times" for "The Wall Street Journal."
Related Items
Author Extra: Eric Felten Answers Questions
Mr. Felten stayed after the show to answer a few more questions.
Q: Doyle Brunson, the famous poker player, makes deals worth enormous amounts of money with nothing more than a handshake to cement the deal. If a man isn't willing to shake his hand and forego a signed agreement, I believe Doyle will even refuse to do business with him. What happened to that type of trust that we believe a man's word and honor less than we trust the binding words of a piece of paper, which most of us don't read or understand anyway?
- From Brian via email in San Antonio, TX
A: Contracts are marvels of social organization, but they are a very expensive way to make commitments to each other. There’s the lawyering up front and then the litigation over disputes on the back end. Brian is absolutely right that trust is simpler and more efficient. And that’s where loyalty – the virtue of being trustworthy – comes in. If you can establish your loyal bona fides people will be willing to do business with you on the basis of your handshake. It is one measure of how empowering loyalty can be.
Q: Two questions: Do we learn loyalty best by experiencing examples of loyal behavior or by being betrayed? Do you feel loyalty and other virtues are being taught in our education system? If not, should they be?
- From Rachel in D.C.
A: I think we learn loyalty at home if we’re lucky. But also we learn it from literature. Great dramas and tragedies often turn on questions of loyalty as characters try to solve terrible dilemmas that can come from conflicting loyalties. Reading Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar teaches us something, after all, of what happens when loyalty unravels.
Q: I want to disagree with your and your guest's characterization of marriage. First, it is debatable whether or not marriage as "a simple statement of loyalty" (as your guest put it) works today, given the high rates of marital infidelity and divorce today. Moreover, marriage itself is a civil contracts just like premarital agreements! Both involve government involvement, lawyering and adjudication. Indeed, marriage evolved into a civil contract because people needed the state to protect their property, custody of children, and certain rights in marriage and in case it ended. While we may like to romanticize marriage as a simple commitment of two people to each other, the personal and social aspect of that kind of commitment do not require marriage whatsoever. - From John in Syracuse, NY
A: I think that loyalty is essential to marriage in a myriad of ways. Infidelity, of course, is profoundly destructive of the commitment spouses have to one another. But there are simpler questions of loyalty: Do you keep your spouse’s secrets, or do you indulge with your friends in pillow talk? Does the newlywed husband whose wife is at odds with his mother side with his new wife or hew to his mother? These are questions of loyalty, and they point to the centrality of loyal commitment in the success of any marriage.
Comments
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Please talk about loyalty to truth and fact, especially from the media and the impact on listeners. Should there be equal time provisions, something like the Fairness Doctrine. Talk about absolute freedom of speech and the recent Supreme Court ruling about corporations. Is it American freedom, that the law and access to funds allows some to reach larger audiences than the average Joe?
I'm surprised that no mention is being made of Albert O. Hirshman's classic book, "Exit, Voice, Loyalty" (1970). This book covers all the issues mentioned by Mr. Felten, and more. For example, when the United Way suffered a governance scandal some years ago, many of its patrons realized that they had no voice in it's management; their loyalty then disappeared, and they exited any further involvement with the organization.
a friend will bail you out of jail
A real friend will be sitting right beside you
News Corp.
Rupert Murdock.
Worthy of trust?
Very much enjoying this show!
Does your guest have an opinion about the role of loyalty in the Bernie Madoff scandal ...... and / or the Manson Family?
after 44 years of marriage, my parents have separated.
and so i'm wondering about your thoughts on loyalty to a marriage and loyalty to ones own happiness.
I served 5 years in the Marine Corps and took my position and my conduct very seriously. Being a female, I was the recipient of the rampant sexual harassment and assault. When I stepped forward and reported these incidents, I was more often than not swept under the rug. They words that betrayed my loyalty and my expectation that the institution would be there for me when I needed it were, 'This is proof that the system works and that we take care of our Marines.' I will never forget that while I was left feeling shamed and betrayed, all the promises that were made to me were broken. Instead of being punished for his conduct, he was promoted and sent to a coveted tropical station.
While it may seem a bit more trivial than some of the other examples you've been discussing, I think it's important to look at the ways that the intensity of loyalty can "decline" over time if there isn't regular reason to re-affirm it -- "out of sight, out of mind" -- and the role that virtual connections can or can't play in refreshing a sense of commitment and loyalty.
I don't mean to suggest that it's all the same, but I do know that I have both felt and received a striking degree of loyalty from people I haven't seen in person for many, many years in person, but with whom I've maintained relatively close, almost daily connections online.
I have a close friend who will not currently talk to me other than through social media sites or e-mail. Communication gets so messed up this way. I can not get through to her that a phone call or person to person is much better. I feel a lot gets lost in writing.
We are at odds now because of this and the miss communication going on.
You mentioned patriotism (in-as-much-as it is a demonstration of individuals' loyalty towards the State) is on the decline in the United States; what type of trends are associated with this in terms of: (1) the material and symbolic ways by which individuals' demonstrate their patriotism, (2) the contexts in which they do so, and (3) the nature and outcome of loyalty contests between the State and other ideological institutions?
Just wanted to comment quickly on a pre-nup. agreement. I am currently in a relationship with a very well to do man. I would have no problem entering into an agreement before marriage (if that is in our future). I would not take it personally and, in fact, I would encourage him to do so. I don't think having a contract stating his or her wishes for his or her inheritance has anything to do with lack of trust or lack of loyalty, it only puts it in writing and gives someone who may worry about his children getting their inheritance, one that he or she worked very hard to provide to them, piece of mind. It could also create a more trustworthy environment for the children and the new spouse.
Mr. Felten states the marriage contract is "a simple statement of loyalty" but that is the romantic notion of marriage. In Nevada, the marriage contract covers NRS 122.001 - 122.270 and it is very explicit in the legal aspects of marriage. I would disagree that marriage is a simple contract, and while loyalty certainly is critical - it is the legal contract that controls the marriage ultimately.
Loyalty did not motivate the writing of the Two Barbers essay, yet Eric Felten's thoughts provides connectivity to a recent loss of one of two barbers in my life. I hope those interested this Diane Rehm program will find association in the two essays linked below:
Two Barbers
The Eulogy of a Barber
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