Women in the Work Force: Critical Issues
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-03-24/women-work-force-critical-issues
American women have made significant strides in the workplace. But they still lag behind men in pay and advancement. Those issues are at the heart of a job discrimination lawsuit against Wal-Mart. Next week the U.S. Supreme Court will begin hearing arguments on aspects of the case, which could affect more than a million women. In the next hour, we'll talk with three women - a lawyer, an economist and a journalist - each with a different generation's perspective on gender equality in employment. And we'll explore why workplace flexibility has become increasingly important for both men and women.
Guests
Heather Boushey
senior economist at the Center for American Progress.
Marcia Greenberger
founder and co-president of the National Women's Law Center.
Hannah Seligson
journalist and author of "New Girl on the Job."
Comments
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The way that we are closing the gap is reducing men's income. Ironic, 'eh?
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/the-struggles-of-men/?ref=e...
Davis Straub
http://ozreport.com
http://ozreport.com/location.php
http://ozreport.com/worldrecordholder.php
Quest Air, Groveland, Florida, USA
One of the interviewees said that employees can legally be fired for asking other employees about their pay. That is not correct. The National Labor Relations Act protects employees for making common cause with other employees on matters affecting wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment. These protections include the right to talk with other employees about what their pay and working conditions are, including asking them for that information.
It is important to correct this misinformation.
This conversation is great but lacking the perspective of women of color. Women of color are at even greater disadvantage than white women.
Interestly, if we substituted race or disability as a factor in all of these discussions, the entire nation would be outraged. Try putting 'black' or 'deaf' in each scenario and see the reaction.
Thank you for this wonderful show!
Worked for big-box home improvement store. Started as a cashier when the store opened along with male coworkers with whom I was eventually promoted into the same position (inventory management). Had position for 1.5 year and found out I was geting paid $2 less an hour. Filed EEOC case on pay discrimination. Lost case because, previous to my hire, I was an office manager for one year whereas my male counterparts (previous to their hire) were outside salesmen (4 years) and a K-mart manager (25 years) and so on (they were hired into big-box as floor sales). However, at the big-box, we were all promoted into the position of inventory management. They discriminated not because of my job performance while employed with them but because of my 'past life' previous to their employing me. Contacted lawyer. Said I had good case, but unless I was making 6 figures the fight wouldn't be worth it because big box would drag fight out and the expense would be great.
I am a teacher. Since teaching is still pretty much a female dominated, second income profession, in most people's eyes, why do you think everyone wants to lower our salaries. I would bet that if this were a male dominated industry, things would be different in Wisconsin and Florida.
Please correct the myth that early feminists were bra-burners. Your guests should know better than to perpetuate this stereotype.
And why are white males automatically assumed to be qualified while everyone else needs to prove that they are qualified? For centuries we have had affirmative action for white males.
And yes, to more diversity on your panel. Where are the women of color and working class women of all colors?
Susan and others,
Thank you for this show. I wanted to let you know that I worked at a prestigious Arts institution in northern Michigan for 14 years. For the last 8 years of my time there, I was the sole licensed professional counselor for approximately 500 students. My pay was less than notable if compared to with other professionals in same position. Benefits were good. I did not work in the summer time; however, the institution hired a part time (29 hrs a week) counselor to handle the needs of approximately 2000 campers. When I retired in June, 2010, they hired two full time, year around professional counselors. One is a PhD and the other Masters level, as was my degree. Hmmmmm, I thought I was working very hard but never gave it a thought until I left, and heard how much my services were appreciated. Better late than never, I guess. They now have a significant level of help.....Betty Bushey (pronounced Bushay)
Interesting point about the symphony orchestra in America. I'm a black, classical musician and male; and while the demographic of orchestras may have changed with blind auditions, there are imperfections in that process. The last round of the audition is usually from behind the screen, so discrimination or nepotisim could take place at that point. Also, when you look at the majority of symphonies, they are under-represented by blacks on stage. Typically, in orchestras I've played in, I'm usually the only black or one of two or three in that orchestra.
The orchestra selection process is very flawed system; if the only goal was gender parity, we could say it succeeded, but it doesn't address over-all racial and ethnic equality.
I work for a big box construction retailer. Men outnumber women 4 to 1, even though 90% of the jobs can be physically done by women. The women who do work there have to be superwomen. They have to do everything, know everything, have stellar sales and be polite. There is so many men who are unfamiliar with process and procedure, don't work as hard physically, are slack, rude and their sales aren't that great. I'm not even talking about not getting through the hiring process simply because they're women, because that happens, too.
It's frustrating but I don't think anything, any legislation will change that.
As a father of two young girls, a brother to three sisters, I appreciate the need for improved equality for women.
However, as a former Walmart employee of six years I regret the one sided conversation about Walmart and the lack of insistence on facts. For instance there was a comment that employees are left in the dark not knowing about available jobs. That is not true. Walmart has a very robust job posting system available to all associates (employees).
The other question is whether or not single experiences or events are representative of the overall reality. Walmart has great HR policies and works hard to see all employees treated equally. However with 1.2 million associates I imagine Walmart would admit that individuals do things that are not consistent with their policies. So in the case of the class action law suit, comments by frustated former Walmart employees, the question is whether or not the experience of a few is representative of most or all of the employees as a result of corporate policy? Each of the guests on the call today failed to consider this question and seemed to embrace all comments that supported their preconceived ideas without considering if each data point was representative of the whole.
As a father of two young girls, a brother to three sisters, I appreciate the need for improved equality for women.
However, as a former Walmart employee of six years I regret the one sided conversation about Walmart and the lack of insistence on facts. For instance there was a comment that employees are left in the dark not knowing about available jobs. That is not true. Walmart has a very robust job posting system available to all associates (employees).
The other question is whether or not single experiences or events are representative of the overall reality. Walmart has great HR policies and works hard to see all employees treated equally. However with 1.2 million associates I imagine Walmart would admit that individuals do things that are not consistent with their policies. So in the case of the class action law suit, comments by frustated former Walmart employees, the question is whether or not the experience of a few is representative of most or all of the employees as a result of corporate policy? Each of the guests on the call today failed to consider this question and seemed to embrace all comments that supported their preconceived ideas without considering if each data point was representative of the whole.
As a father of two young girls, a brother to three sisters, I appreciate the need for improved equality for women.
However, as a former Walmart employee of six years I regret the one sided conversation about Walmart and the lack of insistence on facts. For instance there was a comment that employees are left in the dark not knowing about available jobs. That is not true. Walmart has a very robust job posting system available to all associates (employees).
The other question is whether or not single experiences or events are representative of the overall reality. Walmart has great HR policies and works hard to see all employees treated equally. However with 1.2 million associates I imagine Walmart would admit that individuals do things that are not consistent with their policies. So in the case of the class action law suit, comments by frustated former Walmart employees, the question is whether or not the experience of a few is representative of most or all of the employees as a result of corporate policy? Each of the guests on the call today failed to consider this question and seemed to embrace all comments that supported their preconceived ideas without considering if each data point was representative of the whole.
Replying to woodwoman - So true, sister . . . I had the documentation that my out-of-stock percentage for my departments (kitchen, plumbing, flooring & decor) were at or below my male counterparts (less than 1% out-of-stock and many times at 1/2%). Ran the tow motor, reach truck, order picker as skillfully. Palletized my sister store's transfers (cabinets, sinks . . . anything). Kept my overheads in pristine order and kept the department heads straight! Big box eventually 'eliminated' the inventory management position in our region, renamed it 'inventory specialist' and offered the postition to me at $4 less an hour (from almost $13 to $9/hr.) Then they told me not to take it personally. They monkeyed around and offered a token interview for a department head's position at a nearby store of which I waited and waited to hear a result. I finally told them not to take my two-weeks notice personally . . . of course, that comment was as effective toward them as a flea on a tough elephant's hide. But I did what I had to do to preserve my dignity . . . give me dignity or give me death!
The comment by your youngest guest -- Hannah Seligson -- still rings in the air: "Women sort of run laps around men academically..." [boggle] ...thus confirming her "New Girl on The Job" status.
Pardon my assuming gender from first names, but the end credits -- Sandra, Nancy, Susan, Denise, Monique, Sarah, and Dorie -- make me wonder whether the show may need a little orchestral audition screen of its own ;-)
Hehe... and engineers: Tobey, Jonathan, Kenneth, and Andrew. ROFL!
Men and women are different. Must we feel bad about that?
Although gender issues of pay do need adressing in the workplace. I do not believe in equality in the work place. I am on the lowest rung of the scale in my job and I have had management positons before. I am one to believe no job is above me or below me. I sweat I bleed and I should ALWAYS be paid more than my peers and in many cases my bosses, and I am. But as policies created by some of these lawsuits are made to help those with true grievances it cuts at the few of us champion workers who don't want to move up because it takes time away from our families. I don't believe in equal pay in the workplace not because of men vs women but for those of us who are better workers who will be hurt by this Men and Women.
I'm part of the class action suit against Novartis Pharmaceuticals. Our class won and Novartis settled with us awarding our class over 175 million dollars for gender and pay discrimination.
I'm educated and astute and yet I did not know I was being discriminated against when I was pregnant until I my employment was terminated. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Looking back it makes perfect sense they were trying to push me out.
Thank you to all the men and women who are discussing this important issue and making it known so women know their rights.
The issue that there is disparity in the workplace is fundamentally the result of who controls the workplace.
No where in the USA Constitution are USA women denied USA Constitutional rights. Women ought not ever have had to argue rights.
Secondly the Constitution demands that we live in a republic, which is a nation governed for THE PEOPLE, not for the benifit of multinationally held corporations to profiteer from us, while demanding the relinquishment of our Constitutional rights.
Thirdly when the first amendment is violated and religions take from the HEREof economy for their vestry, reinvest it and manage those reinvestments in the HEREof economy, under largely male dominate foreign nationalistic ideals, then it makes sense to devalue hereof women. They can also import several people in a family, only pay the male, and further their foreign dominance with all those people, only fairly paying one of them.
It is not right to uphold foreign dominance while allowing those in the USA Population, people who choose to live here because of the USA Constitutional hierarchy, to be profoundly under valued in the workplace.
This is only part of a much greater issue of the difference between those who have and those who have not.
I dislike shows like this because few people ever really understand how to frame the issues of equality between men and women. To be sure women being discriminated against in the work place should not be. Nor should anyone else, as several listeners here have noted, including lots of other minorities. But to be fair you have to acknowledge the strengths and short comings of everyone as individuals. No one talks about the fact that life expectancy of men is shorter, and males from the moment of conception on have much greater mortality rates than women. This fact alone explains much of the difference between men and women. Men must take greater risks to succeed early on, and do better or lose out. Women can afford to make less money early on while they complete an education because they have more certainty of a longer safer life. The pressures on each group are different.
One the guests commented that young women of a certain age are making more money than their male peers in certain urban environments, and one of the other guests responded that this was shown in a study that didn't control for education, as if to imply that somehow men really men are still doing better than women, but women are completing higher education at rates much higher than men now, and the trend is continuing and increasing. So perhaps over all older women are still not paid as well as men, but as times goes on and the younger generations of women will come to the fore, and they have already overtaken men. People need to acknowledge the underlying realities that force men and women to make different decisions. Until we can balance these outside factors for everyone there can be no equality, and one group or the other will always dominate.
I heard a bit of the show while in the car. I heard a woman refer to a woman deciding to have a "family" what I believe she meant to say was "child" or "children". Myself and my partner are a family and we do not have any children. I'm not sure when the substitution of the word "family" to "child" started but I find it offensive. There are many families without children.
I heard a bit of the show while in the car. I heard a woman refer to a woman deciding to have a "family" what I believe she meant to say was "child" or "children". Myself and my partner are a family and we do not have any children. I'm not sure when the substitution of the word "family" to "child" started but I find it offensive. There are many families without children.
In the Wal-Mart discussion it was not mentioned that the company also exploits workers in its factories (sweatshops) in countries economically challenged., i.e., China, India, El Salvador, Honduras, Dominican Repulbic. etc., etc.,). Workers are paid much less than any worker, male or female in the U.S.A. Because of this, Wal-Mart can keep its overhead expenses in the USA lower than its competitors.
Wal-Mart's business model is to increase its bottom line no matter who or what is seen to stand in the way of its "progress."
Yes, this is the real issue that no one is discussing! The rich continue to get richer on the backs of the poor. It does not have to be this way, and in our parents or probably more our grand parents generations it was not like this. Society grew wealthier together.
Amar: I believe that Walmart pays in those countries what is within the wages to similar positions in those countries. For example, if in El Salvador the average wage is $10 the days then that what Walmart pays. I once spoke to a national from Morocco who worked for the US Embassy in Rabat and I asked her if her pay scale is similar to US foreign service paid. She told me she is paid a wage that is similar to a government position in her own country.
Remember when we had the miqiladores on the Mexican US border. They paid lower wages to compatible jobs in the US. However they were very good wages for Mexico along with perks like housing and transportation.
What do you think in the past that these employees in foreign countries made before these companies started moving across international borders? Probably nothing at most. This cross border economics manufacturing is something new that has grown in the last 20 yrs.
@meangreen: What you say doesn't change the fact the the net effect of companies many large corporations and financial institutions around the world right now is to transfer wealth from poor to rich. Even in developing countries, China is a great example, the wealth is being concentrated disproportionately in the hands of a the few. I have seen this with my own eyes. Cities on the coast are quite modern while much of the rural interior is extremely poor. Also, what about things like the poor farmers who are forced to sign exclusive contracts with razor thin profit margins if they want to sell through Wal-mart. They are forced to take on massive debt to finance expansion to become efficient enough for Wal-marts demands, then if they have a bad year go bankrupt and are bought out by a larger farm or corporate interest. In American it is well documented that wages have fallen in real dollar terms for all but the richest 10% of Americans over the last 30 years while income and assets of the top 1% have skyrocketed. We need a world where there is real income growth for everyone, most especially the poor. There have been times at least in American where equitable economic growth existed. We should go back to that.
Amar:
You may have seen for your own eyes what has happened in China with the wealth discrepancies between rural and urban, but it does not mean things are not changing. Have you not seen or read how the Chinese government is spending billions of dollars on infrastructure to help these rural areas. I have
Just look where China was 30yrs ago , it was a poor country because of Mao and communism with people all dressed the same in gray. You can say that our standard of living has increased greatly since the end of WWII with the war factories now making consumers goods. The beginning of subdivisions. Rome was not made in one day.
Please tell me where you have gotten your info that only the top 1% have skyrocketed. That 1% pays 38% of the total tax bill. 10% pay 90% of the the total US tax bill. 50% as stated during the last presidential debate pay ZERO taxes. Not included in the 50% are people that got money back that did not pay Federal Income Tax. What the poor is suffering right now is inflation thanks to all the paper money that is being created under this administration.
During the Bush years the largest number of home ownership took place. (New York Times article). Tuesday March 22, 2011 it was announced that life expediency has increased to 78 yrs in the good old US. House per sq. footage has increased greatly in the last 30 yrs for most Americans. I've seen it and lived it.
You believe in helping the poor, let the free market do it. That why million of people like my parents did it with no government help.
In a free market those Chinese farmers do not have to sell to Walmart. They can sell to Costco or that French Box Store Carrefours who are in China.
I'm a thirtysomething well-educated white male who makes a very low income in spite of working hard and being persistent. I found this discussion to be highly offensive and off the mark. The first guest lost me when she matter of factly said that "women run circles around men" in universities. Had a man said that about women, it would not have flown. There would have been socio-economic issues brought up and what was expected of women and why they don't perform as well. The guest made the comment as if it is just a fact that women are smarter than men. Didn't Larry Summers end up resigning from his position as president of Harvard for making a similar statement about women and their aptitude for science and math? Why the double-standard? When you make a broadbrush statement about a specific gender (or ethnicity, or sexual preference, etc.) you are propagating discrimination. If you are okay with demeaning and making broad statements about "the other," then you are helping to spread the same ignorance that demeans and broadbrushes your own particular identity. This particular show was the first time I have turned off The Diane Rehm Show. Ms. Rehm was not the host of this particular show. With all due respect to the guest host, I like to think that the incredibly sharp Diane Rehm would have called the guest -- who made the broadbrush statement that stereotyped men as not as intelligent as women -- on her hypocrisy. As another commenter suggested, the real issue here is between the haves and the have-nots.
That comment by Seligson undercut her entire argument. It was hypocritical and, at best, a double standard. Imagine if a man had said that about women without qualifying the statement with reasons why this might be the case.
That comment by Seligson undercut her entire argument. It was hypocritical and, at best, a double standard. Imagine if a man had said that about women without qualifying the statement with reasons why this might be the case.
http://www.datapointed.net/2011/03/relative-us-income-taxes-1913-2011/
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-cha...
http://www.datapointed.net/2010/04/historical-us-income-tax-brackets/
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/12/22/us-life-expectancy-decreases-sli...
As for your comments about housing, did you miss the news about the housing market bubble, the crash in the stock market, the ongoing problems with the housing market, the incredible amounts of wealth destroyed? There is hardly anyone I know who has not been effected directly or indirectly by these things, none in a positive way.
Wal-mart is operates in free markets, and does a fine job depressing wages for poor farmers all around the world, not just in China.