Robert Lane Greene: "You Are What You Speak"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-03-21/robert-lane-greene-you-are-what-you-speak
Robert Lane Greene
Random House
Some people become absolutely apoplectic when speakers and writers make errors in grammar and usage. According to journalist and author Robert Lane Greene, these so called “grammar grouches” are fighting a largely losing battle, and although correctness may seem to be a goal, language wars, he says, are actually battles for political identity. In a new book he outlines what makes a language successful, how and why languages change, and the origins of some of the seemingly arbitrary grammar rules in the English language. Please join us to talk about why we talk the way we do.
Guests
Robert Lane Greene
Correspondent for "The Economist" and an assistant professor in the Center of Global Affairs at New York University.
Comments
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I’m 60, and have noted that in the past, teachers and parents were quick to correct grammatical errors, cautioning that incorrect use of the language not only leads to misunderstandings, but also reflects poorly on the offender. More recently I have detected an increase in poor language skills and even negative comments directed at those that correct the error. Can we blame this on poor education, an outgrowth of texting, or laziness? Thank you, Diane, for the quality programming you provide.
Thank you, Martin, for a grammatically correct comment.
My pet peeves: Subject/verb agreement is a thing of the past. Here is a typical example I hear from NPR reporters every day: "There's three reasons why this happened." No, no, no! There ARE three reasons......Please!
Also, there is the "me" verses "I" problem.
However, these problems pale in comparison to what one reads in the "comment" section of any article, blog etc. I can hardly understand what people are trying to say, half the time.
Isn't clear communication the goal? I think we are losing that with our loss of grammar skills.
Hope someone addresses the double-"is" habit. Sometimes even triple-"is"! Talk show hosts are the biggest offenders. AM and cable talk shows, of course, not the DR show!
For example: "The problem is, is that people aren't paying attention to what they're saying."
___
Once we've jailed all the usage criminals who have a bad "is" habit, I'd like to go after the perps who commit the reluctant/reticent sin, using one word when they mean the other.
___
Life imprisonment (solitary?) should be mandatory for the constant reiteration of "you know."
Please discuss the use of "there's" with a plural object, as in the following sentence: "There's thing's to consider here." Agh!
Also, please, please, say something about "upspeak" and the harsh, clipped, "hard-R" sounds and speech patterns that seem more common today. Their prevalence is so grating that I find myself turning off the radio multiple times daily. It's bad enough that I encounter it more and more frequently in the workplace.
Thank you.
I'm curious about the way that the British refer to someone as being "called" James Brown. To me, James Brown is "called" "Soul Brother #1", or "The Godfather of Soul", but he is "named" James Brown.
How would they refer to someone's nickname in their version of English?
It drives me crazy when 1. writers begin sentences with "And ..."; 2. speakers interviewed on radio and television begin their comments with "So ...". Just crazy!
this drives me nuts:
"I have got a ...."
Why add got? Isn't it enough to say "I have a..."?
My main complaint with language today is the use of "done". . .as in "I'm done with this." I always thought things were done and people were finished or through. Thank you.
The separation between the classes is not so much economic, ethnic or even political, it is the ability to speak intelligently and properly in the appropriate settings. It affects your ability to find work, advancement opportunities and every aspect of everyday professional life. I don't care where you are or what your career calls for, the ability to interview well is the key. You could have a 145 IQ but if you sound like a hillbilly or a thug and can't turn it off to interview, the job is going to the person who keeps their tenses straight. You could be running for public office on the south side of Chicago and if you don't sound like you deserve the position then people who sound just like you won't vote for you.
As a language teacher I can see both sides of this argument, but still think that using standard grammar is important.
My biggest pet peeve is the misuse of less and fewer. It is amazing to me that I almost never hear it used correctly. It seems everyone uses "less" now - even in writing. I am teaching my 7-year-old right now the different between much and many - she keeps mixing them up and I keep correcting her. The difference is the same - if you can count it, it's many or fewer. If you cannot count the quantity, it's much or less.
We don't have less people in line, we have fewer people in line. We have less milk to drink.
Lori in Mississippi
The separation between the classes is not so much economic, ethnic or even political, it is the ability to speak intelligently and properly in the appropriate settings. It affects your ability to find work, advancement opportunities and every aspect of everyday professional life. I don't care where you are or what your career calls for, the ability to interview well is the key. You could have a 145 IQ but if you sound like a hillbilly or a thug and can't turn it off to interview, the job is going to the person who keeps their tenses straight. You could be running for public office on the south side of Chicago and if you don't sound like you deserve the position then people who sound just like you won't vote for you.
Diane -
Robert himself has made a transgression this morning a bit ago which is all to common today: he spoke without agreement, saying "There's____________..." with his subject in the plural. The correct 'there are (many, five, etc...) is rare these days, but one would at least expect it from someone who crafts a book on language. Bill Buckley said usage defines definition over time - but until that 'time, can't an author on a such a subject speak 'correctly?'
I hear the word, "gotten" to replace, "have received." Is to correct? Thanks!
Rachel
I am a high school and middle school English teacher. I am absolutely refreshed and given hope by Mr. Greene's approach and can't wait to use his book. I've never taught grammar except as an intuitive "auditory" subject with a few basic grammar rules and conventions. I teach punctuation as a musical metaphor. The words are they lyrics and the punctuation tells you how to sing them.
I've used "Newspeak" and "text language" as examples of the new language they are now creating. I agree that not all change is bad....new words are wonderful and necessary.
Grammar in terms of common usage is what children can remember and make use of. Knowing what the name of an independent clause is, is irrelevant. Even in college, I suggest that they avoid semicolons and colons. Find a different way to say it. Using them without study, will lead to mistakes.
I am a Southerner who lived in Washington D. C. I hear the words Bring and Take confused quite a lot by often well educated people. I am often confused by sentences such as "I will bring it there"
I am often criticized at work for writing at a high level, following standard grammar rules, etc. I am also accused of being too formal. It appears that people do not understand the importance of using proper language in business communications, as any communication (e-mail, instant message, etc.) may become a legal document. I cannot tell you the numbers of e-mails that I receive without punctuation, capitalization, with misspelled words, etc. So I may disagree that people know when to use more formal language. I feel that the informal language used online has spilled over into the business world.
Kimberley
I understand that language changes. It is the basic words and usage that, when misused, is quite irritating because it detracts from the thought being expressed. I have no problem with slang being introduced, it adds color and youth to language. But I feel that the prevalent misuse of very basic constructs of English needs to be addressed. Is it simply a lack of teaching or do people simply not care? I frequently correct my young children on their grammar. They pick up poor habits from playmates and neighbors. I want them to have a good foundation - how they change it later on it life is up to them.
The point of saying or writing anything is to exchange an idea, so whatever turns out to be the most effective way of expressing that thought is very purpose of language in the first place.
I am a high school and middle school English teacher. I am absolutely refreshed and given hope by Mr. Greene's approach and can't wait to use his book. I've never taught grammar except as an intuitive "auditory" subject with a few basic grammar rules and conventions. I teach punctuation as a musical metaphor. The words are the lyrics and the punctuation tells you how to sing them.
I've used "Newspeak" and "text language" as examples of the new language they are now creating. I agree that not all change is bad....new words are wonderful and necessary.
Grammar in terms of common usage is what children can remember and make use of. Knowing what the name of an independent clause is, is irrelevant. Even in college, I suggest that they avoid semicolons and colons. Find a different way to say it. Using them without study, will lead to mistakes.
I'm 43 and often ostracized for correcting grammer in people. Its more an outgrowth of not wanting to "hurt people's feelings". I think people just don't care- they have the attitude that "you know what I mean". I don't agree. In my business, one wrong word or phrase can hurt a negotiation and cost money.
My child's teacher consistantly writes her name at "Miss.", with a period at the end of that word. Is it wrong to feel strongly that she should be corrected? How would one go about this without being insulting? What do you do when your child's school does not conform to the standard? -Eileen
One of my biggest pet peeves these days is the use of "Joe and I" when it clearly should be "Joe and me", as in this is a picture of Joe and I, or he brought it over for Joe and I to use. I know that we all learn this rudimentary rule in elementary school so I've been alarmed to hear it said this way by elementary teachers as well. I hear this used by people on radio and television as well as by professionals.
I wonder how this came to be? I don't really think that the people that I know personally who say this really did it on purpose to avoid the "me and him" sound that we know is very slangy. I find myself rephrasing their words in my head and chalking one more up to grammar insanity!
Yes, I am a language crank! What bother's me most has no correlation to race or nationality. It frustrates me when people make a question out of what is really a declarative sentence. Up talking! Even adults and people doing newscasts do it? Like that.. And when people say "You know what?" If I knew "what", they wouldn't have to tell me!
Unfortunately, even authors are including these ticks in their books now.
I know, there are worse problems in the world, but they seem like such lazy habits.
Great program, Diane!
Regarding uptalking: I find it useful as a subtle way of asking for agreement/understanding during the conversation. By ending a sentence with the hint of a question, it can soften the edge of a directive or correction, or encourage dialogue. I view it as an implied "Don't you think?", indicated by the higher tone.
I love this show. I'll be buying your book for my family. I'd like to find your book on a CD, you've got a great voice.
I want to say that it drives me crazy that I hear college grads start almost every sentence with the word "So." Is that unique to the midwest? I hear young doctors use "so" so often it makes me cringe.
Several times, I have complimented supermarket supervisors when their signs say (for instance) "10 items or fewer".
I feel so liberated not to feel guilty when ending a sentence with a preposition!!
In that example of "Where's the library at?" -- imagine how silly to ask somebody on the street, "At which location is the library located?"
Here is a virus that has gotten into our language at all levels: educated and uneducated, professionals and factory workers.
I will try AND be there at 8:00 ( TO BE)
He is a friend of John's (Of John's what?) brother, sister?
Here is a virus that has gotten into our language at all levels: educated and uneducated, professionals and factory workers.
I will try AND be there at 8:00 ( TO BE)
He is a friend of John's (Of John's what?) brother, sister?
Perhaps I'm a grammar grouch (though I'm definitely not one who wants to stick with the status quo), but I've noticed an increase in noun followed by pronoun i.e. "Mr. Brown, he, is here" or "The people, they, have spoken", "Robert Lane Green, he, is my guest". I was taught that such noun followed by pronoun usage is incorrect, but I hear it often from Pres. Obama, Diane Rehm, and many television journalists. I wonder if this is now acceptable usage?
Thanks for the interesting show!
such things as dreams are made on.
shakespeare