Friday News Roundup - Hour 1
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-02-25/friday-news-roundup-hour-1
Neporsha Hamlin, center, of Madison, Wis, protests the governor's budget bill at the State Capitol in Madison, Wis., Saturday, Feb. 19, 2011. The Wisconsin governor, elected in November's GOP wave that also gave control of the state Assembly and Senate to Republicans, set off the protests earlier this week by pushing ahead with a measure that would require government workers to contribute more to their health care and pension costs and largely eliminate their collective bargaining rights.
AP Photo/Andy Manis
The Obama administration says it will no longer defend the federal law that bans same-sex marriage. House Republicans propose a plan to avoid a government shutdown. And Wisconsin’s fight over collective bargaining expands to other states. A panel of journalists joins Diane for analysis of the week's top national news stories.
Guests
Major Garrett
congressional correspondent, National Journal.
Sheryl Gay Stolberg
White House correspondent, The New York Times.
Chris Cillizza
author of The Fix, a Washington Post politics blog, and managing editor of PostPolitics.com.
Friday News Roundup Video
The panelists discuss the ongoing tensions between public employees in Wisconsin and Gov. Scott Walker (R) over the governor's proposal to cut pay and benefits and strip unions of their collective bargaining rights in the state. The "budget math" clearly shows that the issue of collective bargaining is "unrelated" to the state's deficit, said Major Garrett. The panelists also agreed that the governor's statements during a prank phone call this week were damaging, but not likely to be career-ending:
Comments
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So David Baltimore:
You do not think tax increase to increase salaries and benefits for state teachers and employees will not hurt the middle class? The middle class does pay property taxes which keeps these entities employed. Sure thing increase property taxes is going to hurt the middle class, something the unions support.
Martin Carney
Guess who is paying 60% better benefits for state employees than private employees get. (USA Today 2-18-11). It is us the middle class tax payer. We are paying these outrages salaries for some of these teachers along with benefits that us in private industry do not get. We pay it through our property taxes. You know the kind that if you own a house, you pay it or lose your home.
You own a home don't you?
bollenski:
Perhaps that 2.8 million is a waste of money that somebody is going to have to pay for it. Has this high speed train proven to be profitable? See this is the problems we been having, politicians from bygone years making all these promises and now look the mess they have gotten us into. Blame the Dem's, they told us for decades that these social programs would be the panacea for all social ills.
Lily from Cincinnati:
The unions have been just as bad along with their Democratic politician friend. They keep getting and getting. Benefits for the the public sector is 60% better than your private employees. Does not sound that they are not doing to bad.
To think in the private sector we have to do chores that are not in our job title. That does not exist in certain type of union public sector jobs. Yesterday Gov Daniels told us in PBS the NcNeil Report that union worker as an example would not move an office Xerox machine because it was not part of their job title as stated by the union contract.
Mike Sergeant:
You can turn off the television or radio. Pay for Sirus radio and hear some left winger who "dive up your fancy".
Mike Sergeant:
I would say that most people now a days do not take sick days even when they are sick because they are afraid to loose their jobs. Where you get this that people call in sick to go shopping is a joke. USA Today had one of those surveys that prove that a few weeks ago.
I wonder if these union workers that are protesting out there are being paid.
To The Disingenuous Etaoin Shrdlu:
You did use "faux news" on the opinion piece of this station on Friday February 18, 2011, "Hour 1".
Your "accurate memory of history" is not always accurate. Above sentence proves this, sir.
Collective Bargaining
Isn't it a big conflict of interest for unions to donate to a politicians campaign then sit down at the table with these same politicians to negotiate salary and benefits? Sounds a bit like Tammany Hall politics. I am not saying that other groups aren't guilty of similar practices but unions are probably the largest political contributors and make the greatest gains once their supported politicians take office. Therefore, I think that collective bargaining's days should be over.
As a parent and a pediatrician who has three children, it saddens me that education in the US has become so institutionalized. The pedagogy of John Dewey has led our schools to a one-size-fits-all and No-Child-Left-Behind attitude that forgets the individualism of each child. How can a child thrive when you have a distant, bureaucratic Federal Department of Education determining what children should be learning in their local communities and homes? His philosophy has created the belief that elitists, bureaucrats, administrators and politicians know better than parents what kind of education is best for their children. The law holds parents responsible for seeing that their children are educated. Courts have ruled that parents have the primary right to determine the educational needs of their children.
The current system flagrantly discriminates (by not providing equal funding to private schools or home schooling parents as that given to parents who either abdicate or acquiesce to the public schools) against my and others’ philosophies, religions, belief systems and viewpoints in favor of the governments’ own philosophies, belief systems and viewpoints. The taxes collected to support public education are based on laws. These laws permit the governments to assist some parents in educating their children and at the same time deny other parents assistance in educating their children. All parents are not being treated equally under the law. This is a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Money should be attached to the child, not the school districts. Vouchers would ensure competition, protect the rights of parents and children (rather than interests of school administrators or teachers), and allow a greater number of low-income children access to high quality education, whether it is at a public school, private school or at home.
@AnthonyC,
"The current system flagrantly discriminates (by not providing equal funding to private schools or home schooling)..."
If this were to happen the teacher unions would lose their stranglehold on public school districts. They would never countenance such a threat to their survival.
meangreen wrote: So David Baltimore:
"You do not think tax increase to increase salaries and benefits for state teachers and employees will not hurt the middle class? The middle class does pay property taxes which keeps these entities employed. Sure thing increase property taxes is going to hurt the middle class, something the unions support."
Huh? My question was how would proposed federal budget cuts hit the wealthy. I guess you are talking about Wisconsin but I still don't know what you mean... Who's going to educate the children of Wisconsin, pick up the trash and insure public safety if taxes or fees aren't collected to get these jobs done?
I don't know exactly what the Wisconsin unions support but I know they have offered concessions and I assume they oppose the recently enacted business tax cuts. Why would property tax increases be necessary in fiscally sound Wisconsin with public sector employee concessions and without the business tax cut?
Had those tax cuts been tax increases, they would be an example of a budget solution not funded directly by the poor or middle class. Can you tell me what sacrifices have been asked of the wealthy in the U.S. or Wisconsin? I think it fair to ask sacrifices of all not some.
Ms. Shru,
It's cowardly and undemocratic pure and simple. Recall petitions for these Democratic shrubs are gathering names. Pink slips will be flying in between the 12 coffee breaks these "workers" get. All the better.
Your defense is pathetic and your facts lacking.
Limited collective bargaining is still collective bargaining.
I find it hard to believe you've had any private sector experience at all, unless it was not-for-profit. Limited intellects aren't tolerated in the for-profit world, at least that's my experience. I've never worked in the public sector, I bore easily.
David Baltimore:
Wisconsin is not fiscally sound. It is 137 million in the whole. Now property taxes in many states include city, school, and some other things which include trash pickup, police and fire, etc. They show the breakdown per category when you get your yearly bill which in some states is in October. Not sure how it is broken down being that they have a state income tax.
It is property taxes that pay for trash pick up and other city services. Anybody that owns a home and there are many poor people that own homes pay property taxes. However it is based on the percentage of what your house is worth in the market. Wealthy subdivisions pay higher property taxes because there homes are worth more. The problem is that some of these areas have middle class individuals that have seen their home values increase and are hit with higher tax bills due to increase cost of city services(wage & benefit). They have a hard time making it.
The problems with these unions is that in 2009, an agreement was made between unions and cities stating that the average yearly wage increases would be eliminated meaning that the unions could demand higher cost of living increases. In the private sector we would be lucky to get a cost of living pay increase.
Feb. 18 USA Today stated that benefits for union workers in Wisconsin are 60% better than the average private sector employee.
In other words the taxpayer cannot continue to fund these unlimited entitlements
The reason for the business tax cut is because during a recovery you see businesses buying equipment and other essentials now that demand picks up. These corporation purchase from other businesses and this demand for goods is what adds jobs to the private sector.
When I feel I have more money in my pocket even though I may not, it is an incentive to purchase items. One of the reason the tax cuts under the Obama Administration have not worked is because they come out to around $12 a pay check or $625 total a year.
Cheers
Hey hainc:
I kept on thinking that Shru was male. Thanks for the education.
Well Meangreen you still have not stated one sacrifice asked of the wealthy so I declare victory. I could refute many of your points but let me just defend my fiscally sound comment by saying that 137 million is about 1% of Wisconsin's approx $13 billion budget and you may think that a fiscal crisis in the Great Recession but I do not.
Not quite David Baltimore:
It is presently 137 million but projected to rise to 2.2 billion dollars in the next two years without added cuts.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/109275069.html
Now that sounds like a budget deficit going from 1% to close to 20%.
Now to "answer the sacrifice the wealthy pay" into the coffers of the State of Wisconsin. For somebody making $225,000, state income tax went from 6.75% to 7.75%.
www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/.../$FILE/tax_treat.pdf
Please by all means refute some of my other points David.
I am sure the thousands of people protesting to keep their cush jobs did vote in November, and they voted their self-interest which was threatened by a candidate for governor who wanted to change the cosy relationship unions have with legislators.
However, millions of Wisconsin taxpayers liked what they heard from candidate Walker and Republican legislative candidates and voted for them. They now await the governor and the Republican legislators to follow through on their promises. Right now, their democratic rights are being trampled on by corrupt Democratic legislators on the unions' payroll.
Interesting how the Wisconsin budget deficit is $135 million and yet the new elected governor granted $117 million in tax breaks to his favorite corporations. So, who created the states budget problems?
And in a toxic and ironic turn of events..who voted him in?
As I have always said, you can support a republican, but a republican will never support you.
Yep I can, but I didn't argue that. I argued that by paying my cable bill every month I am forced to support Fox News and MSNBC, both of whom (It may surprise you) I do not support or watch. If I had the choice I would have neither on my TV but I don't. I had Sirius Radio for years, it had both right wing and left wing programming on it neither of which I spent any time "diving up my fancy", whatever that means. Loved the 40's station though
If most people don't take sick days because they are afraid to lose their jobs, that would make a pretty good argument for having a union. Unions were formed precisely to fight just these situations.
A joke? I guess all those people I know who have abused the sick day policy to go shopping or skiing don't exist. I'll let them know.
Isn't USA today part of the liberal media? How can you possibly trust them? Or is it just because this time it supports your position and therefore is trustworthy.
@Mike Sergeant,
Just because you work with fools who would rather infect their fellow employees than burn a sick day (to be used for a ski vacation), and you work for an employer who doesn't send these contagious fools home, or fire them for abusing the system, doesn't mean that these dopes are demonstrating the hubris of the Wisconsin teachers, who get a phony doctor's note that excuses them from their job, but encourages them to slither down to a protest where their faces are seen on TV.
You ask me to document a routine occurrence where a public school student can go the entire day seeing subs in their classrooms instead of their full time teachers? Why don't you check with your local DOE and ask for a listing of the number of subs that are sent out every day.
Because North Carolina no longer has Helen Crump teaching in Mayberry, they are not top ten? It can't be because there are no teacher unions in NC. You seem to confuse the fact that Georgia, , North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas and Virginia don't require or permit school districts to bargain a contract with the local teachers' union with teachers in NC not being in teacher unions.
meangreen on February 26, 2011 @ 11:33 am wrote: “To The Disingenuous Etaoin Shrdlu: You did use ‘faux news’ on the opinion piece of this station on Friday February 18, 2011, ‘Hour 1’ Your ‘accurate memory of history’ is not always accurate. Above sentence proves this, sir.”
PART ONE
To the slanderous Mr. meangreen: It’s been said “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.” In your case the saying changes to “Beware of Cicero quoting your misrepresentations”. He used your nonsense to attack me on the website for the March 25th episode. I replied to him there, it’s your turn here.
Sorry, “greenmeanie”, but all you’ve proven is that you don’t comprehend simple written English. You are responding to my Comment of February 26, 2011 @ 1:14 am (appearing on the website for this episode) where I responded to Cicero by saying: "Oh, and another little fact you ignore: I did not use terms like ‘faux news’ or ‘Fox Noise’ in my prior Comment."
Note the emphasized word, sir, I was talking about something I had written previously in the website to this episode.
And your evidence of my disingenuous nature (and inaccuracy) is? To quote what I had written a week earlier, on a different episode of the show!.
Like I said, English isn’t your strong point. I did not say I never used such terms, only that I hadn’t used them in my prior Comment. An absolutely true statement.
TO BE CONTINUED
PART TWO
Just to make it clear how false your accusation is, let’s summarize the sequence in date and time order:
February 25, 2011 @ 2:19 pm: I post my first Comment to this episode, in which I do not use the words "faux news" or "Fox Noise". (I was rebutting a charge of hypocrisy someone had made against Democrats, by pointing out the Republi-Cons had done the very things they were now criticizing the Dems for, thus showing they were the hypocrites).
February 25, 2011 @ 2:56 pm: Cicero’s Comment (falsely) accuses me of using those terms. (Note: there was no other Comment by me prior to this one. Also note: he objected to my pointing “to Republican bad behavior”, demonstrating that it was the 2:19 pm Comment he was responding to, and talking about.)
February 26, 2011 @ 1:14 am: I state “Oh, and another little fact you ignore: I did not use terms like ‘faux news’ or ‘Fox Noise’ in my prior Comment.” (Which, by the way, was only the second Comment I had posted.)
In short, I wrote nothing but the truth.
I’d say it’s your credibility and accuracy that’s shot
P.S. - I’ll respond to other things you (and Cicero, and hainc) have posted since I last wrote here, another time. Ciao!
meangreen on February 26, 2011 @ 10:43 am wrote: “So David Baltimore: You do not think tax increase to increase salaries and benefits for state teachers and employees will not hurt the middle class?”
Of course, you are overlooking the fact that one of the main reasons for Wisconsin’s “budget crisis” is that the Governor is handing big tax cuts to corporations, thereby causing the deficit in his state.
So the question which should be asked is: You don’t think tax cuts for corporations that cause deficits, and which must be paid for by cutting funding for education, will hurt the middle class?
P.S. - And where did you get the notion that the unions were asking for increases in salaries and benefits? They'd already agreed to the cuts Walker demanded. This wasn't a fight over either increases (no one was demanding) or cuts (already agreed to). This was a fight over Walker's claim that he had to curtail collective bargaining as a budgetary necessity. A claim he abandoned when it suited his legislative needs. In the words of Joe Wilson: he lied!
P.P.S. - And Baltimore was expressly talking about the President's budget - the Federal budget, not the Wisconsin state budget . He also never mentioned teachers in anyway. I guess facts and truth aren't your strong points either!
meangreen on February 26, 2011 @ 11:00 am wrote: “See this is the problems we been having, politicians from bygone years making all these promises and now look the mess they have gotten us into. Blame the Dem's, they told us for decades that these social programs would be the panacea for all social ills.”
Let’s not forget the biggest lie of all - “voodoo economics”: that we could cut taxes, increase revenue, and yet balance the budget.
Oh, wait, that lie was promoted by Reagan and the Republi-Cons!
And when did anyone claim those social programs “would be the panacea for all social ills”? I recall no such statement by anyone who supported them. I do recall supporters saying the programs would make things better, ameliorate the hardships that existed without them, and they did!
Oh, but they didn’t work perfectly. Welcome to the real world, where nothing is perfect (except your record for offering mindless ideology instead of facts and reason).
meangreen on February 26, 2011 @ 10:52 am wrote: “Guess who is paying 60% better benefits for state employees than private employees get. (USA Today 2-18-11).”
You know, sir, it would be nice if for once you tried to fact check your sources (or even provide links to them) to be sure of your accuracy (and theirs), instead of just parroting whatever statistics happen to suit your ideology.
I couldn’t find the article you rely on, but I did find this: Right-Wing Media Push Misleading Stat That WI Public Employees Make More Than Private Workers (located at: http://mediamatters.org/print/research/201102220021)
Among other things, this article by Media Matters for America stated that USA Today has been flogging these claims for some time, but that it has also “acknowledged that its analysis did not consider differences in experience and education."
The article also points out that these claims are a case of comparing apples to oranges, and that when comparisons are made between public and private employees with similar education levels the private employees come out way ahead!
Now, I’m sure there's a lot more to this issue, and it’s very complex, so unlike you I’m not going to draw any conclusions, except one: when it comes to your claims it ain’t necessarily so!
AnthonyC on February 26, 2011 @ 11:48 am wrote: “Isn't it a big conflict of interest for unions to donate to a politicians campaign then sit down at the table with these same politicians to negotiate salary and benefits?”
No more than it’s a conflict of interest for politicians to deliberately seek to destroy unions that campaigned against them, but exempt the ones that supported them. You know, like Governor Scott Walker exempting the Police, Fire, and State Troopers unions from his attacks on collective bargaining. Guess which candidate for governor those unions supported?
And what about corporations that make big donations, and then get awarded government contracts?
As for campaign contributions themselves - I’m not sure which gives more: corporations or unions. But I don't like the unholy influence money has on our politics whatever the source. In practical terms it’s little better than legalized bribery! However, the Supreme Court has blessed this, so unless the Court changes its mind (or we amend the Constitution) we’re stuck with this.
Remember that in 2012!
AnthonyC on February 26, 2011 @12:22 pm wrote: “The pedagogy of John Dewey has led our schools to a one-size-fits-all and No-Child-Left-Behind attitude that forgets the individualism of each child. How can a child thrive when you have a distant, bureaucratic Federal Department of Education determining what children should be learning in their local communities and homes?”
I’m guessing you didn’t get an “A” in history. John Dewey had nothing to do with No-Child-Left-Behind. That came to us courtesy of Bush the Second, and his Republi-Con Congress.
“All parents are not being treated equally under the law. This is a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.”
I’ll make you a deal, I won’t try to practice Pediatrics, if you stop trying to practice law. Simply put, you don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s not enough time and space to address all of your errors, but allow me to raise the real equal protection issue.
Most of public education is funded by local property taxes. All communities are not created equal. Some are wealthier than the others. Guess which ones have the better schools? There have been some measures to ameliorate this, and provide for more equal funding, but they are strenuously resisted (and kept largely insufficient). Why? In the name of that “local control” you so extol.
You want to know one of the principal causes for what’s wrong with how we operate public education? Look in the nearest mirror.
hainc on February 26, 2011 @ 8:57 pm wrote: “It's cowardly and undemocratic pure and simple. Recall petitions for these Democratic shrubs are gathering names.”
Oh, and requiring a filibuster proof 60% vote to pass anything in the Senate is your idea of democracy? And putting a secret “hold” on legislation (so we can’t even know the Senator responsible and contact to complain) is your idea of a “profile in courage”?
“Your defense is pathetic and your facts lacking.”
- No, sir, that describes your response.
“Limited collective bargaining is still collective bargaining.”
- Yeah, with one hand tied behind your back. That’s as rich as your apparent belief that forcing 60% votes is democratic, and secret holds are courageous.
“I find it hard to believe you've had any private sector experience at all, unless it was not-for-profit. Limited intellects aren't tolerated in the for-profit world, at least that's my experience.”
- Given your apparent lack of intellect, your claim to mostly private sector employment refutes your claimed “experience”. And yes, I spent most of my life in the “private sector”. In fact, my first job was working for a law firm that did products liability defense for Michelin Tire Corporation. That’s right - I’m a lawyer who worked for a corporation! (They're not all "evil" you know.)
Oh, and why not try to get my name right, to say nothing of my gender? All you do is prove you have the emotional maturity of a two year old!
P.S. - In case it’s escaped your attention, recall petitions for those Republi-Con “shrubs” are also gathering names. What the ultimate outcome will be is something we will just have to see.